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 Post subject: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Via Hollywood Reporter:

Millennials have embraced the Supreme Court Justice with the hip-hop moniker Notorious RBG, liberals view her as their champion, and conservatives heap scorn — now with a new documentary about her life and legacy, she's ready to take Sundance by storm.

At 84, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg — who is expected to attend the world premiere of RBG, the documentary about her life and legacy that first screens at Sundance on Jan. 21 — could be the toast of the fest. "Millennials are big fans of hers," says Julie Cohen, who directed the film along with Betsy West. "What they love about her is the contrast between her seriousness of purpose and her lighter side."

Having embraced the hip-hop moniker Notorious RBG (originally bestowed upon her by an NYU law student), Ginsburg doesn't shy away from the notoriety or pop culture currency her nearly 25 years on the court have brought (though in October 2016 she said she'd never seen Kate McKinnon's portrayal of her on Saturday Night Live). She allowed the filmmakers, who worked on the project for three years, into her chambers and into her life outside the court.


*snip*

In fact, the film argues, Ginsburg, who co-founded the Women's Rights Project at the American Civil Liberties Union in 1973, was instrumental in educating the court about gender inequality even before she became a Supreme. Beginning with 1973's Frontiero v. Richardson, the first case she argued before SCOTUS — she successfully made the case that female service members deserve housing allowances just like their male counterparts — she won five of the six cases she brought to the Supreme Court.

"That's a theme of the film," says West. "When the justice began her career as a litigator, there were thousands of laws that discriminated against women — they couldn't get a credit card without their husband's permission, husbands in 12 states couldn't be prosecuted for raping their wives, and it went on and on. She took it on very strategically and systemically, a step-by-step strategy to convince justices, many of them male, that discrimination did exist. She says in the film, 'I felt like I was a kindergarten teacher.' "

As the doc analyzes it, once Ginsburg was installed on the court — she was nominated by President Clinton and approved by the Senate on a 96-3 vote — she initially staked out a relatively moderate, consensus-building position, but as subsequent appointments have driven the court to the right, she has become the great dissenter, unafraid to take her fellow justices to task.

Although she appears diminutive, her voice carries great weight and is heard throughout the film. While cameras have never been allowed into the court, there are audio recordings, which the RBG filmmakers make use of to capture those arguments. "We made the decision we were not going to shy away from those recordings even though there was no obvious picture to cover them," says Cohen. "The force of her voice, even in her very first Supreme Court argument, is so impressive. It's fun to hear her going from being a little tentative and nervous to being super-forceful."


Like Thurgood Marshall and Rep. John Lewis, RBG is a true American hero - a good guy who fights for rights for EVERYONE. The right has no equivalent, as the right stands for the dark side. Whichever ideological stance can truly be seen as evil, that's the side the right is on. Their heroes are people such as Bull Conner, who hosed down people who just wanted the right to vote. Donald Trump is a hero only to those who want to see our democracy destroyed, replaced by an autocracy of the rich.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:46 pm 
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The Four Justices, by Nelson Shanka. Currently on display at the National Portrait Gallery.

Image

Unfortunately, you may need to wait till the shutdown ends to go see it live.

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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:53 pm 
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glen goes after women like Ginsburg, Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton based upon their looks, and comments on Ginsburg's ugliness, as he sees it.

I once sent him a photo similar to this:

Image

And, of course, he had no idea who it was. It was a young Ginsburg.

She's 84 fricken' years old! Of course she isn't a supermodel, which, it seems, is the only women glen will take seriously.

But at 84, she's in better shape then glen, and I bet he couldn't do HER daily workout!

RBG has filled up on Law Clerks for the next three years, so she isn't going anywhere!


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:43 pm 
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So after all these years of claiming she is a moderate you finally admit she is a liberal.

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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Where do I claim she's a liberal?

Once again, glen doesn't understand what "liberal" or "left" really means.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:14 pm 
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So after all these years of claiming she is a moderate you finally admit she is a liberal.


OK glen, highlight the exact reference made by GoU to RBG being "A Liberal". You made a declarative statement, back it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Try the first sentence of GoU's link. where it states "liberals view her as their champion".

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"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Where do I claim she's a liberal?

Once again, glen doesn't understand what "liberal" or "left" really means.


You obviously don't have the ability to recognize a liberal because your views are so far left. As for you admitting she is a liberal the very first sentence of your link " liberals view her as their hero".

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"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:38 pm 
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glen goes after women like Ginsburg, Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton based upon their looks, and comments on Ginsburg's ugliness, as he sees it.

I once sent him a photo similar to this:

Image

And, of course, he had no idea who it was. It was a young Ginsburg.

She's 84 fricken' years old! Of course she isn't a supermodel, which, it seems, is the only women glen will take seriously.

But at 84, she's in better shape then glen, and I bet he couldn't do HER daily workout!

RBG has filled up on Law Clerks for the next three years, so she isn't going anywhere!


Do you have anything to back up this personal attack as in a link to where I poked fun at RBG's looks? Or Pelosi's looks or HRC's looks? Of course not and once again you are doing what Union People do best....LIE.

Sidebar, you will be able to find some very old posts where I used a derogatory terms about HRC. Something I finally realized was both wrong and stupid and quit doing. But, other than very old references about HRC the other personal attacks are just you lying once again.

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"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:26 pm 
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Do you have anything to back up this personal attack as in a link to where I poked fun at RBG's looks? Or Pelosi's looks or HRC's looks? Of course not and once again you are doing what Union People do best....LIE.

Sidebar, you will be able to find some very old posts where I used a derogatory terms about HRC. Something I finally realized was both wrong and stupid and quit doing. But, other than very old references about HRC the other personal attacks are just you lying once again.

You know you made derogatory remarks about her to me personally in conversations. You can lie if you want. We both know the truth.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:28 pm 
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You obviously don't have the ability to recognize a liberal because your views are so far left. As for you admitting she is a liberal the very first sentence of your link " liberals view her as their hero".

Yes, I'm a liberal and she's a hero of mine. Doesn't mean SHE'S a liberal - the article points out her moderate stances.

Proof? How often does she VOTE with the conservative Justices?


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Yes, I'm a liberal and she's a hero of mine. Doesn't mean SHE'S a liberal - the article points out her moderate stances.

Proof? How often does she VOTE with the conservative Justices?

Is she voting with the conservative justices or are they voting with her?


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:10 pm 
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Is she voting with the conservative justices or are they voting with her?

Deflection. But the point is this: The conservative justices are far far far to the right. If the "liberal" justices were far far far left socialists, they would always vote the opposite of the conservatives. The reality is, We have a Supreme Court that's made up of crazy right wingers and moderates.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Deflection. But the point is this: The conservative justices are far far far to the right. If the "liberal" justices were far far far left socialists, they would always vote the opposite of the conservatives. The reality is, We have a Supreme Court that's made up of crazy right wingers and moderates.

if what you say is true then ACA wouldn't have survived the first or second SCOTUS challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:25 pm 
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if what you say is true then ACA wouldn't have survived the first or second SCOTUS challenge.

Why? The ACA is a conservative health care plan. It was conceived by Newt Gingrich and the Heritage Foundation and championed by then-governor Mitt Romney.

Yet four of the conservatives voted against it.

You prove my point.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Why? The ACA is a conservative health care plan. It was conceived by Newt Gingrich and the Heritage Foundation and championed by then-governor Mitt Romney.

Yet four of the conservatives voted against it.

You prove my point.


Not really. Most decisions coming out of the court are not 5-4 decisions. If the court was dominated by the "dark side" then there wouldn't be an ACA and there wouldn't be gay marriage. Often times lawyers and judges set aside their ideology and actually interpret the law. I know many attorneys that you would not be able to discern what their political ideology might be. I think JDogg alluded to this in another thread. Professionals often have to set aside their political ideology. They have a fiduciary responsibility to the public and to their clients to be objective.

Personally, I don't always agree with RBG but I do think she is a fine person and a good judge. I can understand why folks admire her. She has a very distinguished career.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Try the first sentence of GoU's link. where it states "liberals view her as their champion".

Comprehension, glen, comprehension. Go back and read the first line after the title. It reads:
"6:45 AM PST 1/20/2018 by Gregg Kilday

Gregg Kilday is the author of the article and it is Gregg Kilday, not gounion, who identified her as a "liberal." gounion didn't write the article or call her a "liberal."

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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:46 pm 
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I've never understood the need to denigrate left of center politics.

Josh Matthews on the TPM web site wrote today our politics begins to make
sense when one understands the current GOP is two factions with the
Trump Republicans are a ehtho centrist, nationalistic party that controls the
regular GOP who are center right, pro business. The Democrats for the most
part represent the opposition to the Trump Republicans for imagine this world
with more leaders like Trump


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Not really. Most decisions coming out of the court are not 5-4 decisions. If the court was dominated by the "dark side" then there wouldn't be an ACA and there wouldn't be gay marriage. Often times lawyers and judges set aside their ideology and actually interpret the law. I know many attorneys that you would not be able to discern what their political ideology might be. I think JDogg alluded to this in another thread. Professionals often have to set aside their political ideology. They have a fiduciary responsibility to the public and to their clients to be objective.

Personally, I don't always agree with RBG but I do think she is a fine person and a good judge. I can understand why folks admire her. She has a very distinguished career.

Where did I say it was dominated? You and glen keep putting words into my mouth.

We have four far far far right wing extremists, one very conservative judge, and four moderates. The extremists don't ever set aside their ideology. The moderates often do.

RBG has never been a far-left liberal. She's simply a woman that's fought for the rights of women to be treated equally her whole life. Via wiki, here's her career before the court:

In 1972, Ginsburg co-founded the Women's Rights Project at the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and, in 1973, she became the ACLU's general counsel. The Women's Rights Project and related ACLU projects participated in over three hundred gender discrimination cases by 1974. As the director of the ACLU's Women's Rights Project, she argued six gender discrimination cases before the Supreme Court between 1973 and 1976, winning five. Rather than asking the Court to end all gender discrimination at once, Ginsburg charted a strategic course, taking aim at specific discriminatory statutes and building on each successive victory. She chose plaintiffs carefully, at times picking male plaintiffs to demonstrate that gender discrimination was harmful to both men and women. The laws Ginsburg targeted included those that on the surface appeared beneficial to women, but in fact reinforced the notion that women needed to be dependent on men. Her strategic advocacy extended to word choice, favoring the use of "gender" instead of "sex", after her secretary suggested the word "sex" would serve as a distraction to judges. She attained a reputation as a skilled oral advocate and her work led directly to the end of gender discrimination in many areas of the law.

Ginsburg volunteered to write the brief for Reed v. Reed, 404 U.S. 71 (1971), wherein the Supreme Court extended the protections of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to women for the first time. She argued and won Frontiero v. Richardson, 411 U.S. 677 (1973), which challenged a statute making it more difficult for a female service member to claim an increased housing allowance for her husband than for a male service member seeking the same allowance for his wife. Ginsburg argued the statute treated women as inferior, and the Supreme Court ruled 8–1 in her favor. The Court again ruled in Ginsburg's favor in Weinberger v. Wiesenfeld, 420 U.S. 636 (1975), where Ginsburg represented a widower denied survivor benefits under Social Security, which permitted widows but not widowers to collect special benefits while caring for minor children. She argued it discriminated against female workers denying them the same protection as their male counterparts. Ginsburg filed an amicus brief and sat with counsel at oral argument for the case Craig v. Boren, 429 U.S. 190 (1976), in which she challenged an Oklahoma statute which set different minimum drinking ages for men and women. For the first time, the Court imposed what is known as "intermediate scrutiny" on laws discriminating based on gender, a heightened standard of Constitutional review. Her last case as a lawyer before the Court was 1978's Duren v. Missouri, 439 U.S. 357 (1979), which challenged the validity of voluntary jury duty for women as she deemed women's participation in government service as vital and that jury duty should not be optional. At the end of Ginsburg's oral presentation, then-Associate Justice William Rehnquist asked Ginsburg, "You won't settle for putting Susan B. Anthony on the new dollar, then?" Ginsburg said she considered responding, "We won't settle for tokens", but instead opted not to answer the question.

Legal scholars and advocates credit Ginsburg's body of work with making significant legal advances for women under the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution. Taken together, Ginsburg's legal victories discouraged legislatures from treating women and men differently under the law. She continued to work on the ACLU's Women's Rights Project until her appointment to the Federal Bench in 1980. Later, colleague Antonin Scalia praised Ginsburg's skills as an advocate, "she became the leading (and very successful) litigator on behalf of women's rights—the Thurgood Marshall of that cause, so to speak".


That's not a liberal agenda; it's a human agenda, and it's something that I think we can agree is an agenda both of us can agree with!

Also in the wiki:

President Bill Clinton nominated her as an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court on June 14, 1993, to fill the seat vacated by retiring Justice Byron White. Ginsburg was recommended to Clinton by then-U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno after a suggestion by Utah Republican Senator Orrin Hatch. At the time of her nomination, Ginsburg was viewed as a moderate. President Clinton was reportedly looking to increase the Court's diversity, which Ginsburg did as the first Jewish justice since the 1969 resignation of Justice Abe Fortas and as only the second female appointee. The American Bar Association's Standing Committee on the Federal Judiciary rated Ginsburg as "well qualified", its highest possible rating for a prospective justice.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:30 pm 
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I don't think justices really fit into the ideological spectrum of conventional politics.

In general, the 'conservative' justices (usually appointed by Republicans) tend toward views of originalism and strict constructionism.

The 'liberal' justices (usually appointed by Democrats) tend toward views of a "living Constitution" whose interpretations can evolve.

I'm not a judge, but I know where I lean on that question. I personally don't want our legal world held hostage to what a bunch of men (and it was all men and pretty much white men) thought in 1776. Society, technology, and morality has evolved since then.

These differences work themselves out differently in the way they ultimately arrive at decisions.

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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:45 pm 
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I don't think justices really fit into the ideological spectrum of conventional politics.

In general, the 'conservative' justices (usually appointed by Republicans) tend toward views of originalism and strict constructionism.

The 'liberal' justices (usually appointed by Democrats) tend toward views of a "living Constitution" whose interpretations can evolve.

I'm not a judge, but I know where I lean on that question. I personally don't want our legal world held hostage to what a bunch of men (and it was all men and pretty much white men) thought in 1776. Society, technology, and morality has evolved since then.

These differences work themselves out differently in the way they ultimately arrive at decisions.


I don't know that I disagree with you regarding conservative justices and liberal justices and their various points of view or how these things work themselves out in court decisions. What I find curious is how these people are viewed by folks outside of the court. Ultra conservatives view the "liberal" court justices as "Far, far, far far, far to the left" and ultra liberals view conservative justices as "far,far,far, far, far to the right". and both sides think they are absolutely, positively correct is their assessment. I wonder how the various members of the court view themselves or the other members. Ginsburg and Scalia were close friends and both were polar opposites based on their judicial philosophies. Obviously there is a level of respect that allows various members to agree on a number of contentious legal issues. I think they call it civility.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:30 am 
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I don't know that I disagree with you regarding conservative justices and liberal justices and their various points of view or how these things work themselves out in court decisions. What I find curious is how these people are viewed by folks outside of the court. Ultra conservatives view the "liberal" court justices as "Far, far, far far, far to the left" and ultra liberals view conservative justices as "far,far,far, far, far to the right". and both sides think they are absolutely, positively correct is their assessment. I wonder how the various members of the court view themselves or the other members. Ginsburg and Scalia were close friends and both were polar opposites based on their judicial philosophies. Obviously there is a level of respect that allows various members to agree on a number of contentious legal issues. I think they call it civility.

I look at it from the view of history. In the court's Lochner Era, a far-far-far right court refused to let the American people legislate as they saw fit. The court knocked down law after law regulating business, worker safety, setting minimum wages, and even refused to allow lawmakers to ban child labor. One of the worst things they did was decide that corporations are people, with Constitutional rights the same as human beings.

I highly recommend the book Injustices: The Supreme Court's History of Comforting the Comfortable and Afflicting the Afflicted by Ian Millhiser.

Four of the current justices, for instance, would vote to not only ban abortions, but criminalize them, making abortion murder, which would have far-reaching consequences. They would also ban unions and collective bargaining, as they've done in the past. They'd also make homosexuality illegal, and squash the current liberalization of pot. They would return us to the Lochner Era where a Supreme Court makes our laws, not an elected legislature. They don't vote on the law, but on their personal ideology.

On the flip side, the "liberal" judges often vote with the far right on the side of corporations in business cases. If they were "far left", then they would be socialists that would NEVER vote on the side of business. Except they do.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:38 am 
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Try the first sentence of GoU's link. where it states "liberals view her as their champion".


Provide YOUR PROOF that she is a liberal. You made the statement and you need to substantiate that claim. Your failure to do so proves that you are once again talking out of your ass.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:56 am 
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You obviously don't have the ability to recognize a liberal because your views are so far left. As for you admitting she is a liberal the very first sentence of your link " liberals view her as their hero".


You are NOT providing your proof glen. You make a declarative statement and having made that declarative statement you should be able to proof to back up that statement. You are the one wrote it glen, you are the one who needs to prove it.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Notorious RBG
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:58 am 
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Do you have anything to back up this personal attack as in a link to where I poked fun at RBG's looks? Or Pelosi's looks or HRC's looks? Of course not and once again you are doing what Union People do best....LIE.

Sidebar, you will be able to find some very old posts where I used a derogatory terms about HRC. Something I finally realized was both wrong and stupid and quit doing. But, other than very old references about HRC the other personal attacks are just you lying once again.


As often as YOU engage in personal attacks glen, you have a lot to talk about. GoU did not make a personal attack, you know he did not make a personal attack and you are trying to deflect and redirect away from statements you know you cannot back up.

_________________
Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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