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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Carmin, GoUnion, I would imagine that Motor City after spending such a long time here has already been introduced to Strawman.


Your hyperbole is the straw man.

There aren't any lynchmobs or unruly mobs around #metoo.

I hope you've also seen #timesup and #timesupnow.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Gymnastics, or the industry I'm in.

Wired has two related stories on the mentality that props up these men, and conceives of any pushback against them as a 14th Amendment-violating unruly mob bent on lynching men.

'Sex Party' or 'Nerds on a Couch'? A Night in Silicon Valley - this one references the Vanity Fair article, which was also quite good

The Dirty War Over Diversity Inside Google

These focus on the name-recognition, A-lister types, but I've seen a couple instances of smaller, wannabe versions.



:roll:

These articles talk about the name-recognition, A-lister communities, but I've observed a couple instances of smaller, wannabe versions. Especially of that last guy Damore, who got caught peddling WN sexism and misogyny that he thought was anonymous.

These guys simply can't compete. That is really the bottom line. Sex, power, money, cheating, sexual battery...they think these give them a leg up because those things always have for those types. But not when they're outed for what they are.

Most men want the historical status quo, where they are believed and the women are called whores and gold-diggers. Where they have the power and can get away with anything.

So, they scream "lynch mob" when men are simple held to account for their actions.

Those days are over, and I'm happy to see it. I have no problem with it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:37 pm 
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To realize what's REALLY going on, you should take a look at the gymnastics situation.


yea they had a trial for that. even charles manson got a trial.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:39 pm 
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yea they had a trial for that. even charles manson got a trial.

So why won't you answer my question about Weinstein?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Your hyperbole is the straw man.

There aren't any lynchmobs or unruly mobs around #metoo.

I hope you've also seen #timesup and #timesupnow.


Its flagrantly obvious in this post:

gounion wrote:
Both Sam and Motor City are demanding ONLY proof that can stand up in court. If Weinstein didn't admit to anything, it would never stand up in court.

So, where are we with that?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:41 pm 
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Most men want the historical status quo, where they are believed and the women are called whores and gold-diggers. Where they have the power and can get away with anything.

So, they scream "lynch mob" when men are simple held to account for their actions.


Because they can't compete.

Maybe now, they'll learn to compete.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:42 pm 
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No I was just using the words we used in the 70's.

I guess I should have said I know many women who 40+years ago had consensual sex with many different partners. Whom today claim to be victims.

Is that better officer PC.



Uh huh. You used the word because you probably still use it. And having sex with multiple people doesn't mean they couldn't have been victims. You're saying you don't believe them or they are not credible because they got around, according to you.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:42 pm 
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Its flagrantly obvious in this post:



Uh-huh. That's some lynchmob you got there. :problem:

#leftyguysawahashtag

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Sounds to me like Sam wants a world where a company can't fire someone who is accused unless that accusation can be proved beyond a doubt in a court of law.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Uh huh. You used the word because you probably still use it. And having sex with multiple people doesn't mean they couldn't have been victims. You're saying you don't believe them or they are not credible because they got around, according to you.


A lot of these males still think of grown women as girls. They think of their wives and work contemporaries that way, and treat them/us accordingly.

Conservative males in particular are deathly afraid of girls, or, at least their feelings about girls. We know why that is, too.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Sounds to me like Sam wants a world where a company can't fire someone who is accused unless that accusation can be proved beyond a doubt in a court of law.


In my experience, HR rarely knows j.s. about employment law. All they know is company policy.

Which is: "well, we have a policy against that." :problem:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:48 pm 
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Uh huh. You used the word because you probably still use it. And having sex with multiple people doesn't mean they couldn't have been victims. You're saying you don't believe them or they are not credible because they got around, according to you.


Yep, I am totally wrong every women alive who claims victimhood is 100% honest and telling the truth. Those girls from 40+ years who hung out at the local pick up bars were all victims.

I am not saying those women could not have been raped or assaulted. I am saying today they are playing the victim card for their past [ consensual] behavior.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:49 pm 
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In my experience, HR rarely knows j.s. about employment law. All they know is company policy.

Which is: "well, we have a policy against that." :problem:

In the nineties, what most companies did, even under overwhelming evidence, was fire the woman, pay her off half a year's salary, and move the offender elsewhere to start the whole process over with another female.

But what Sam and Motor City are saying, although they run from it, is that NOTHING should have happened to Weinstein unless he was convicted in court. "After all, even MANSON had a trial!"


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:51 pm 
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I am saying today they are playing the victim card for their past [ consensual] behavior.


You're presuming that this past "consensual" behavior "with many different partners" (your words) has anything to do with their accusations.

Why would you presume that?

The guys should have kept it zipped or kept their hands or big mouths to themselves. Then, they would not be in this boat. Right?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Yep, I am totally wrong every women alive who claims victimhood is 100% honest and telling the truth. Those girls from 40+ years who hung out at the local pick up bars were all victims.

I am not saying those women could not have been raped or assaulted. I am saying today they are playing the victim card for their past [ consensual] behavior.

Glen wants to be judge, jury and executioner.

No, they may not be honest or telling the truth. But the reality of our past culture is NONE of them are believed.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:58 pm 
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In the nineties, what most companies did, even under overwhelming evidence, was fire the woman, pay her off half a year's salary, and move the offender elsewhere to start the whole process over with another female.

But what Sam and Motor City are saying, although they run from it, is that NOTHING should have happened to Weinstein unless he was convicted in court. "After all, even MANSON had a trial!"


And you get the added benefit of being known as a troublemaker.

I have a friend, something of a mentor, who was middle management at a famous Time Warner co. in the early-mid '00s. Long, storied tech managerial career. She's also an immigrant (from western Europe, but still an immigrant) and was in her late 50s at the time. She sued them for gender and age discrimination, and had exactly the above happen.

Some of it, too, is what's in those Wired and Vanity Fair stories, above. That's where the actual business is carried out and the deals done. Same old sexist old-boy's network, skewed to the fantasies of heterosexual Libbercon and Republican males.

And these guys wonder why more women wait so long, or simply don't say anything at all about our experiences with them as co-workers. :problem:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Sounds like you are in favor of guilty until proven guilty. We have no way of knowing who is making up a story, who believes they were taken advantage of when they weren't and who are the true victims.

Personally I believe the more victims that come forward the more likely the man is a predator
But that being said I know some guys who were falsely accused and some 50 pulse year old women who claim they were victims when they were young

When in fact they were just what we used to refer to as loose.

I want to come back to this, because in going back through the thread, this astounds me.

So, a woman that enjoys sex, and has more than one sexual partner, is obviously lying when they say they were harassed or raped at one point.

Now, that's just bullshit, glen. Just because a woman has multiple sex partners doesn't mean that they want to have sex with anyone and everyone at any time. They still have the right to say no to someone if they don't want to. And, if they are forced to have sex against their will, yes, they were raped.

Could you have been any more misogynist in this post?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:16 pm 
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I'm afraid Carmen is pretty much right on this one. I see no mob. I see a potential for a partisan crusade a la 1950s McCarthy. I don't see this actually happening at the moment.

What I see happening is that women got fed up, and the election of der pussygrabber as our fuhrer was the last straw. Now we'll have to see how far it goes. I'd love to see guys have to find some less evil way to play their power games and/or get their rocks off.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Sam doesn't want the status quo to change. The idea that women now have the ability - and the right - to call bullshit on the male-dominated status quo, where, when accusations are made, the men are automatically believed, and women are disbelieved and attacked, their sex lives ran through the wringer, to give men all the power and none to women - is quite frightening to many men.

I say it's about goddamned time. I never used that power, I've always hated to see men do so.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Translation: "I pulled it out of my ass".

With all the things Sam's pulled out of his ass I hope he has a good proctologist .

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:56 pm 
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I know this could go in the water is wet category, and the interlocutor was that master of misapprehension, Piers Morgan ... but, and I know it's shocking ...

Trump is not a feminist!

Trump says he rejects feminism because he is 'for everyone'
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... story.html

Morgan, a former "Celebrity Apprentice" winner, tweeted: "BREAKING NEWS: President Trump has declared he is NOT a feminist."

Morgan continued: "He tells me: 'No, I wouldn't say I'm a feminist. I mean, I think that would be, maybe, going too far. I'm for women, I'm for men, I'm for everyone.' "

Morgan's announcement was a bit tongue in cheek, as the president's words weren't breaking news to anyone who has paid attention. Trump has repeatedly criticized the Women's March and other initiatives protesting and critiquing his presidency on the basis that his policies and worldview harm women.

[snip]

Trump and many of his supporters, however, have reduced feminism to an ideology rooted in hostility toward men.

In telling Morgan that he is not a feminist because he is "for men," the president reinforces the belief prevalent among critics of feminism that to be "for women" means to be "against men."


Voters heard similar words from Kellyanne Conway, White House counselor to the president and the first woman to successfully manage a winning presidential campaign, at last year's Conservative Political Action Conference. She said:

"It's difficult for me to call myself a feminist in the classic sense because it seems to be very anti-male and it certainly is very pro-abortion, and I'm neither anti-male or pro-abortion. So, there's an individual feminism, if you will, that you make your own choices. ... I look at myself as a product of my choices, not a victim of my circumstances."

[snip][end]

Ok. Where shall we start?

Sexism is real Msr. Trump. Feminists oppose it. They can be male or female. Saying feminism is anti-male or not for everybody is kind of like the usual bleating nonsense about #BLM being against everybody having rights :roll: or saying civil rights activists are anti-white :roll: ...

Feminism is good for men, too, because it opposes gender stereotyping, and allows men to be the kind of men they want to be rather than fitting into narrow societal stereotypes (don't show emotion, don't cry, don't be a bleeding heart or compassionate, etc.)

Am I shocked you are not a feminist? Forget the multiple allegations of sexual assault, or bragging about doing it. Forget the sexist campaign you ran against Hillary Clinton. How about your long history of body-shaming and belittling women and ugly misogyny? And let's not get into lusting after your own daughter, something sick on multiple levels.

And Ms. Conway, feminism is not anti-male. It is for male and female EQUALITY. Nor is it pro-abortion, it is pro-CHOICE, and that is the difference. It respects women's reproductive rights and bodily autonomy.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Via NYT:

The Price I Paid for Taking On Larry Nassar

By RACHAEL DENHOLLANDER

Over the course of the trial, we became an army determined to expose the greatest sexual assault scandal in sports history. And we succeeded. After 156 of us gave statements, Judge Rosemarie Aquilina sentenced him on Wednesday to 40 to 175 years.

But on Aug. 29, 2016, when I filed the first police complaint against Larry Nassar for sexually abusing me when I was a 15-year-old girl and chose to release a very public story detailing what he had done, it felt like a shot in the dark. I came as prepared as possible: I brought medical journals showing what real pelvic floor technique looks like; my medical records, which showed that Larry had never mentioned that he used such techniques even though he had penetrated me; the names of three pelvic floor experts ready to testify to police that Larry’s treatment was not medical; other records from a nurse practitioner documenting my disclosure of abuse in 2004; my journals from that time; and a letter from a neighboring district attorney vouching for my character. I worried that any less meant I would not be believed — a concern I later learned was merited.

My education as a lawyer prepared me for the process and presentation. But absolutely nothing could have prepared me for the pain of being the first to go public with my accusations in The Indianapolis Star.

I lost my church. I lost my closest friends as a result of advocating for survivors who had been victimized by similar institutional failures in my own community.

I lost every shred of privacy.

When a new friend searched my name online or added me as a friend on Facebook, the most intimate details of my life became available long before we had even exchanged phone numbers. I avoided the grocery stores on some days, to make sure my children didn’t see my face on the newspaper or a magazine. I was asked questions about things no one should know when I least wanted to talk.

And the effort it took to move this case forward — especially as some called me an “ambulance chaser” just “looking for a payday” — often felt crushing.

Yet all of it served as a reminder: These were the very cultural dynamics that had allowed Larry Nassar to remain in power.


This is what women look forward to when they stand up. But too many men are married to our status quo which sees women as liars.

THIS is what we're fighting.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:29 am 
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Another milestone in the movement - Kesha performs "Praying" on the Grammys:

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


Background:

Kesha's public support of #MeToo is particularly poignant after years locked in a legal battle with her former producer Lukasz "Dr. Luke" Gottwald and his Sony imprint Kemosabe. Kesha had alleged that the former hit maestro had sexually, verbally and emotionally abused her. A New York judge denied a court injuction that would have allowed her to record new music away from Kemosabe and Sony. Gottwald has since been let go from Kemosabe, and Kesha, still signed to the label, released her first album in five years, Rainbow, last August. Gottwald has denied all charges.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:38 am 
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Sure, you do.

Every conservative white male knows somebody who didn't get into Harvard because of affirmative action, too.

The two attitudes are directly related.

They also know a guy that knew the welfare queen in the Cadillac.and a guy that personally watched a family buy lobster on an EBT card.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:36 am 
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I stand for due process. Neither believing or disbelieving anyone. I say allow due process of courts of law to sort out the evidence. I'm done with calling for people to resign or be fired based upon an unruly mob's suspicion.


It's a patriarchal world, Sam. There's something way wrong with you.

We make her paint her face and dance
If she won't be aslave, we say that she don't love us
If she's real, we say she's trying to be a man
While putting her down we pretend that she is above us
Woman is the nigger of the world, yes she is
If you don't believe me take a look to the one you're with
Woman is the slave to the slaves
Ah yeah, better scream about it
We make her bear and raise our children
And then we leave her flat for being a fat old mother hen
We tell her home is the only place she should be
Then we complain that she's too unworldly to be our friend
Woman is the nigger of the world, yes she is
If you don't believe me take a look to the one you're with
Oh woman is the slave to the slaves
Yeah, alright

Reckon are you done calling for people to resign or be fired based upon an unruly mob's suspicion that black people are being gunned down in the streets by the police for no reason other than they are black people.

The world is what it is, Sam. Due process has had thousands of years to make it something else and due process has fucking failed. Because white males have been in charge of whatever bullshit due process that exists.

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