RadioFreeLiberal.com

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43034786

US President Donald Trump has unveiled his long-touted plan to revamp US infrastructure, but critics labelled it a "scam".

Mr Trump wants Congress to authorise $200bn (£144bn) over a decade to spend on roads, highways, ports and airports.
The president hopes the US states and private sector will stimulate another $1.3tn in improvements.

The plan was a Trump election promise, but it could entail Americans paying higher local taxes, fees and tolls.

[snip]

The plan calls for $50bn of public funding dedicated to modernising infrastructure in rural areas, many of which voted for Mr Trump in the 2016 elections.
The proposal includes $100bn for an incentives programme "to spur additional dedicated funds from States, localities, and the private sector".
The administration also seeks $20bn in loans and bonds to finance projects including transportation and water.
The blueprint allows states to add or increase tolls on inter-state highways, and to charge fees to use highway rest areas.

[snip]

The plan also seeks to reduce the time required to obtain environmental permits.

[snip]

The main problem for the White House is that the proposal allocates no new funds for bridges, railways, roads and tunnels. Instead, it recommends taking money out of other government programmes - although it leaves to Congress the unenviable task of determining what gets the axe.

In addition, the plan leans heavily on states and localities to pick up the tab for the projects. Their budgets are always tight, and recent cuts to federal deductions for state and local taxes will make it harder to raise revenue.

Then there's the private funding component of the proposal. While it seems attractive in theory, tolls and fees that line corporate pockets have long been unpopular with Americans.

[snip]

It does not offer as much new federal funding as Democrats seek. They have advocated public infrastructure investment of five times the amount just proposed by Mr Trump.

"After a full year of empty boasts, the president has finally unveiled a puny infrastructure scam that fully fails to meet the need in America's communities," said House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi.

[snip]

Some critics say the administration's plan is a bid to privatise the nation's infrastructure, shifting the cost burden on to states, which would pass it on to citizens.
Environmentalists say the proposal to streamline the review process for permits would increase risks to vulnerable wildlife.
"It's a scam to line the pockets of corporate polluters by gutting protections for our environment," said the Center for American Progress.

[snip][end]

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger

water?....why are they mentioning water?...he wants to finance "projects" which include "water"..??

is he going to fill lake mead?
someone ask what they mean by "water" "projects"....its not as tho another dam could fill with anything.

_________________
Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.

I don't think it's a plan.

Like one of those book reports one had to do in high school from time to time. Like when one had not read the book and it was due the next day sort of thing.

Water can be water and wastewater. There are thousands and thousands of miles of buried water mains, wastewater sewers and stormwater sewers. There are always water mains breaking. There are corrosion issues in water and wastewater as well as infiltration of groundwater into sewer systems that increase the burden on treatment plants. Many cities end up under EPA consent decrees requiring rehabilitation of sewers, manholes, wet wells on into the treatment plants. This is business I work in.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.

A scam? Possibly. It seems to have as its ultimate goal privatization of public infrastructure. There will be huge burdens dumped on cash-strapped cities and states. This will force so-called public/private “partnerships” which actually result in government having the subordinate position as private MUST have return. That will be followed by the foolishness of privatization.

In my opinion the goal of Republicans and “free market” conservatives is a completely private water/wastewater/power grid utility system which will then be allowed to “voluntarily” take care of its pollution and maintenance. This will be done in conjunction with destruction of the EPA.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.

The problem with privatizing infrastructure is which infrastructure project(s) would it be profitable for a company to assume. I can see a company interested in taking over a highway and making it into a toll road but how would a company make money on a sewer system? Would they simply raise rates or install a meter and charge per flush?

_________________
When you vote Left you vote right.

Raise rates, possibly go back to the city for monies for maintenance or if increasing the size of a treatment plant is needed.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.

C'mon bird, I know you agree with me...it's all a scam. The scam is the only plan. The only focus of this administration is using the office to further enrich the family through the deranged animal's businesses, from which he has not divested himself under the Emoluments Clause. Through obscure deals, with obscure partners, using Russian financing that he is terrified Mueller will disclose to the American people.

_________________

Yeah, I misplaced my sarcasm button.

As for the American people being upset by his financing that would require they are paying attention. Despite low poll numbers Bird’s theorem still holds sway.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.

True that.

_________________

Worse than a scam. It's an attack.

Privatize the goddamn SPACE STATION? Are these people doing drugs?

It loots states that are so evil as to have Democratic majorities. Consciously and by design.

And yes, we know how throwing more money at "defense" fixes everything. Why, Ray Gun did it, tripling the deficit in the process, and no one has had the balls to attack our interests since. </sarcasm> Yes, more nukes, and make 'em so we can actually use them on anyone who's non-white when they get uppity. Experts agree, everything is fine. Go back to watching Netflix and let the billionaires handle that governing thing.

_________________
"Our democratic institutions... seem to have been upended by frat-boy billionaires from California," remarked Canadian politician Charlie Angus. (BBC, 11/27/18)

IF the infrastructure is going to be privatized does this mean a company is going to buy that infrastructure or is the government going to give it to them for free?

_________________
When you vote Left you vote right.

In todays USA Today they did their view/opposing view on infrastructure. Trump's plan called for 1.5 trillion over 10 years but only has 200 billion in funding.

The opposing view was offered by Rep Fazio D Ore and was titled "our plan is bigger better than Trump scam". The only problem was the first 5 paragraphs [of 7 total] only bad mouthed Trump's plan. The 5th paragraph said their plan proposes 1 trillion in spending and then went into what they wanted to improve. Ports, Roads, Bridges, Transit the usual list.

Then the last paragraph was nothing more than one line talking that we hear in every speech. Get America moving again and the like. In typical Democratic Party fashion it offered not even one grain of detail and of course it never mentioned how to pay for any of whatever is in their plan.

Proving both parties are totally gutless. Knowing that as soon as one side comes out with a real plan, the one we need the other side will pounce for political gain. Because both parties put what will help their party over what we need as a country.

Our infrastructure is crumbling and does need repaired and rebuilt. The solution is very simple. Figure out what needs fixed, prioritize the list, come up with a true and reasonable estimate. Then it becomes a simple math problem . We know how many people drive, how many miles they drive and how much gas they burn. So it wouldn't take a CPA from Harvard to figure out how much we need to raise gas taxes to pay for rebuilding our infrastructure.

The sad truth is it would even cost us that much individually. But our politicians will not sit down and come up with the easy bipartisan solution. Then explain it to the American people. Because they are afraid it might help the other side.

In 2016 143.37 billion gallons of gas was burned in the USA. Over 10 years that would be 1.4337 trillion. Our current tax rate of 18 cents will raise about 270 billion in that 10 year stretch. Leaving us 730 billion short assuming 1 trillion will fix our roads. Meaning we need to raise federal gas tax by 50 cents per gallon to cover the cost.

Doing so would create a ton of jobs and at the end of the 10 year period we should have enough coming in to cover maintenance for at least a few years before we would need another increase. It is a win-win for all of us. But, our politicians don't give two shits about that. Because they only care about their parties power.

What would a 50 cent a gallon increase cost? Well if you drive 24,000 miles a year and get 24MPG it would run you $9.60 a week, less than $1.40 a day. 50% less than a small cup of coffee at Starbucks. If you get 30MPG your extra cost would be about a dollar a day.

We are far past the time when this should have been done. However I won't be holding my breath to see it happen anytime soon. In fact I plan on giving up trucking in 10 more years when I turn 70. I will be amazed if it happens in that time frame. After that you folks are on your own as I will seldom drive out of York County.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18

In typical gutless Republican Party fashion they put forth a bunch of crap. Why is that different? BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS ARE IN POWER IN ALL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT. They must govern but they refuse. Yet they still are dishonest in putting forth anything based upon reality.

Keep worrying about the amoral, gutless Republican Party as they steal your social security monies while destroying Medicare.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.

Your last statement is just more liberal horseshit and has zero to do with the subject at hand, which is something we all should be concerned about. Your first statement is correct and goes hand in glove with the opinion I put forth. I=The GOP should put together a real plan to rebuild our infrastructure. It should be 100% bi-partisan and should be funded by an increase in the federal gas tax.

But, if they were to put together such a plan. It would not be bi-partisan because the Democratic Party would use it as a way to defeat the GOP.

Likewise IMO, once the Democratic Party is in power the exact same thing will be true. If the Dems do their duty and put together a real plan. The GOP will attack it in an effort to regain power.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18

It ain’t liberal horseshit. Their budget cuts Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. That is a FACT. Granted it has nothing to do with infrastructure but it has to do with your willful blindness regarding the Republican Party.

Further evidence of your willful blindness is the baseless hope that Republicans would ever agree to any kind of tax hike no matter what it was. They are in the pocket, as you are due to your willingness to continually support them, of failed economic theology.

Moving on, the Democratic Party has shown far more willingness to work with Republicans even to their own detriment. No, both parties aren’t the same in the vast majority of things. Some things, yes, but most things, no.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.

Everything the Trump administration does is a scam. And now everything Congressional Republicans do is a scam as well. The difference is...Congressional Democrats have plans that maintain a safety net and social services protections for American taxpayers. Trump and Congressional Republicans have a scam that rips the safety net and social services out from under Americans, in favor of more fucked up military spending and a fucking wall in the middle of nowhere. The more needy the American, the worse they get ripped by Trump and Republicans.

When the Democrats regain control the exact same thing will not be fucking true...you are a lying sack of shit. It's a culture war glen. There are only two sides. You are not on the side of reason, fairness and concern for the less fortunate. You are not on my side.

_________________

The recent budget was bi-partisan.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18

Do you have any opinion about infrastructure and how to fix it? I should add that the Trump so called plan is a scam at worst and just a political ploy at best. To put forth a 1.5 trillion dollar plan and only have funding for under 300 billion speaks for itself

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18

So fucking what? Are you really going to continue saying there's no difference?

_________________

Yes you are correct there is a difference. That difference being all those years when Harry Reed and the Democratic Party refused to pass a federal budget. Reed being the smart politician he is knew that if the Democratic Party were to ever publically show the voters what they wanted and how to fund it the DNC would be toast.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18

Wow, pass a federal budget. You can throw a bunch of numbers onto paper and it doesn’t mean anything. The devil is in the details. There are no details in the Trump/Republican budget except cutting Social Security, Medicareand Medicaid.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.

Then why did enough Democrats vote for it so it would pass?

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18

Hey, occasionally a congressperson actually does their constitutionally mandated job. And occasionally there are corporatist Dems who vote for stuff I don’t support. You don’t see that out of Republicans except for chickenshits that aren’t running again because they know either

a) they would get their asses kicked by the Democrat
b) they would get primaried by their own party

A handful of Republicans found spines when the6 hand nothing more to gain and much to lose.

Helluva party to support.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.

Glen, I want a real infrastructure plan. That means, actual spending on infrastructure. We both agree this country's bridges, roads, tunnels, train tracks, etc. are in a bad way and need reinvestment.

I just want an actual plan that spends actual money on repairing, restoring, fixing, and upgrading that stuff. I don't care which party proposes it, that's not the issue.

However, what Trump proposed really puts most of the onus on a) already strapped states and b) private corporations, with privatization of previously public structures, which means we're going to see (as consumers/users) a lot of new tolls and fees.

Plus, I imagine once people dig into it, it will probably benefit directly Trump's properties and businesses somehow -- this just seems inevitable from Trumpco.

I don't give a shit who proposes it and it's not a matter of what party benefits from it. It's what this country needs.

As a Keynesian, I also think the secondary benefit of building a lot of that stimulus spending on infrastructure will also be that the government puts more people back to work, and really does what really does prime the economic pump. Unemployment might be low, and the lowest it's ever been for some minority groups, but despite Trump touting that, it's still higher for Blacks, Hispanics, and Native people (as three groups in particular) than it should be.

BTW, as an environmentalist, I also want an infrastructure plan that doesn't roll back environmental regulations and hurt the environment. In fact, we could get a win/win by investing in Green energy infrastructure, like solar, or conservation. But Trump isn't in to that. His version of economic development seems stuck in 1955 - more polluting factories, more coal. Oh, and working people = suburban white males.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger