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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Debate over MSU, U-M, WSU board selection continues;



this cultural change seems like more of the same


I don't think so. If it were truly more of the same, we wouldn't be hearing all this anxiety from conventional men.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:44 pm 
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To Joe, Motor and Sam -

Do you feel Harvey Weinstein, Steve Wynn and Rob Portman got due process?

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"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:46 pm 
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Why won't you answer my question about whether you've had training?

I keep pointing out that it's hard to base things on facts when you don't have any witnesses or proof. Or any way to corroborate things. That's what happens in the real world.


In the real world there are always facts. I know most of my staff members and I know their work histories. I know their co workers. There are lots of ways to determine who is or is not telling the truth in most cases. Of course where you can't make any determination, what you do depends upon what is alleged. I can think of a number of different scenarios. I don't know that I have one solution that would fairly address all of them. As I said earlier, you make decisions based on the facts and circumstances in each case. You do your best to arrive at solutions that are unbiased and impartial. Dealing with people is not like doing math.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:49 pm 
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To Joe, Motor and Sam -

Do you feel Harvey Weinstein, Steve Wynn and Rob Portman got due process?


I wasn't present at their respective terminations. So I have no way to know the answer to that question.

I think their respective employers did what they had to do under the circumstances.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:05 pm 
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To Joe, Motor and Sam -

Do you feel Harvey Weinstein, Steve Wynn and Rob Portman got due process?

not sure who all those people are

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:20 pm 
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Well, I believe GoU meant Rob Porter.

Porter is the one who had been in Trump's Cabinet until recent scandals. BTW, he's resigned. As has been stated, one doesn't know if he was asked to, or did of his own initiative.

Confusingly enough, I just checked Wiki, and yeah, Rob Porter had once worked for Sen. Rob Portman.

The latter was never given a Trump admin post, though he did serve in the Bush admin.

Incidentally, I notice Wiki now says, at top, above Sen. Rob Portman's article, "not to be confused with Rob Porter." :oops: :? :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:00 pm 
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Well, I believe GoU meant Rob Porter.

Porter is the one who had been in Trump's Cabinet until recent scandals. BTW, he's resigned. As has been stated, one doesn't know if he was asked to, or did of his own initiative.

Confusingly enough, I just checked Wiki, and yeah, Rob Porter had once worked for Sen. Rob Portman.

The latter was never given a Trump admin post, though he did serve in the Bush admin.

Incidentally, I notice Wiki now says, at top, above Sen. Rob Portman's article, "not to be confused with Rob Porter." :oops: :? :mrgreen:

Portman is one of my senators. One wonders if he was one of those “deficits don’t matter” guys. Iirc, he was budget director for Bush2. He supports a bill to force binding arbitration in, iirc, medical claim issues but I could be wrong as to whether it is medical or not.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:54 am 
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I know who Weinstein is he was distributor of Michael Moore's Films I don't know if he got due process, I do know his manager didn't think so but also didn't want to fight against the me too movement even though she did nothing wrong by saying so. hard to discuss this issue at all, the conversation from the beginning of this thread has been efforts to drown out any discussion with name calling and projection.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:22 am 
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I know who Weinstein is he was distributor of Michael Moore's Films I don't know if he got due process, I do know his manager didn't think so but also didn't want to fight against the me too movement even though she did nothing wrong by saying so. hard to discuss this issue at all, the conversation from the beginning of this thread has been efforts to drown out any discussion with name calling and projection.


:problem: "Due process" is a legal term, not an HR term, or term of business.

If nobody wants to do business with a man who has harassed, abused, and raped 80+ women, here is the world's tiniest violin.

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name calling and projection.


Yes. Like witchhunt, mob rule, and lynchmob. :problem:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:00 am 
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I know who Weinstein is he was distributor of Michael Moore's Films I don't know if he got due process, I do know his manager didn't think so but also didn't want to fight against the me too movement even though she did nothing wrong by saying so. hard to discuss this issue at all, the conversation from the beginning of this thread has been efforts to drown out any discussion with name calling and projection.

That's funny as shit..... like michael moore was the only.... or even most profitable thing weinstein's film company was involved in....lmfao. yes he collaborated on some of michael moore's projects. but there was a bit more to weinstein's company than.... "He distributed Michael Moore films"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... pany_films


November 11, 2005 Derailed first release; USA distribution only, Miramax Films helds international distribution
November 25, 2005 The Libertine second release
December 23, 2005 Transamerica
December 25, 2005 Mrs Henderson Presents
December 30, 2005 The Matador co-production with Miramax Films
January 13, 2006 Hoodwinked! first animated film; co-produced with Kanbar Entertainment
February 24, 2006 Doogal second animated film; USA distribution only
April 7, 2006 Lucky Number Slevin distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
April 14, 2006 Scary Movie 4 produced by Dimension Films and Miramax Films
June 23, 2006 Wordplay
July 21, 2006 Clerks II distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, co-produced with View Askew Productions
August 11, 2006 Pulse produced by Dimension Films
September 8, 2006 The Protector
September 22, 2006 Feast produced by Dimension Films
September 29, 2006 School for Scoundrels distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by Dimension Films
October 6, 2006 Stormbreaker distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
November 10, 2006 Shut Up & Sing
November 16, 2006 Fast Food Nation
November 23, 2006 Bobby distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
December 25, 2006 Black Christmas distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by Dimension Films
December 29, 2006 Factory Girl distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
December 29, 2006 Miss Potter distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
January 12, 2007 Arthur and the Invisibles distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by EuropaCorp, also the company's 1st half animated and half live action film.
January 17, 2007 Alone with Her
February 9, 2007 Breaking and Entering distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; with Miramax Films
February 9, 2007 Hannibal Rising distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by DDLC Dino De Laurentiis Company
March 16, 2007 Nomad
March 23, 2007 TMNT co-production with Warner Bros. and Imagi Animation Studios, international distribution and the company's third animated film.
April 6, 2007 Grindhouse (Planet Terror & Death Proof) produced by Dimension Films, Troublemaker Studios, and Rodriguez International Pictures
May 11, 2007 The Ex distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
June 15, 2007 DOA: Dead or Alive produced by Dimension Films
June 22, 2007 1408 distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by Dimension Films
June 22, 2007 Sicko co-distributed with Lionsgate Films
June 22, 2007 Black Sheep
July 27, 2007 Who's Your Caddy? distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by Dimension Films
August 24, 2007 Dedication
August 24, 2007 The Nanny Diaries distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; co-production with FilmColony
August 31, 2007 Halloween distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by Dimension Films
September 5, 2007 I Want Someone to Eat Cheese With
September 14, 2007 The Hunting Party distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
November 21, 2007 The Mist distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by Dimension Films
November 30, 2007 Awake distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
December 25, 2007 The Great Debaters distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; co-production with Harpo Films
January 18, 2008 Cassandra's Dream distribution only, produced by Wild Bunch and Virtual Studios
January 25, 2008 Rambo co-production with Lionsgate Films
March 19, 2008 La Misma Luna co-production with Fox Searchlight Pictures, Creando Films, Fidecine, and Potomac Pictures
March 28, 2008 Superhero Movie distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by Dimension Films
April 18, 2008 The Forbidden Kingdom co-distributed with Lionsgate Films
April 25, 2008 Rogue produced by Dimension Films
June 6, 2008 The Promotion produced by Dimension Films
July 23, 2008 Boy A distribution only, produced by Cuba Pictures for Channel 4
August 8, 2008 Hell Ride produced by Dimension Films
August 15, 2008 Vicky Cristina Barcelona distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; co-production with Mediapro and Wild Bunch
August 22, 2008 The Longshots distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by Dimension Films
September 19, 2008 Elite Squad
October 31, 2008 Zack and Miri Make a Porno distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, co-produced by View Askew Productions
November 7, 2008 Soul Men distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; produced by Dimension Films
January 23, 2009 Outlander
January 23, 2009 Killshot
January 30, 2009 The Reader
February 6, 2009 Fanboys
February 27, 2009 Crossing Over
August 21, 2009 Inglourious Basterds co-production with Universal Pictures and A Band Apart
August 28, 2009 Halloween II produced by Dimension Films
September 11, 2009 A Single Man
October 2, 2009 Capitalism: A Love Story
October 16, 2009 Janky Promoters produced by Dimension Films
November 25, 2009 The Road produced by Dimension Films
December 18, 2009 Nine
2010s
Release Date Title Notes
January 8, 2010 Youth in Revolt produced by Dimension Films
February 9, 2010 Hurricane Season produced by Dimension Films
May 5, 2010 Shelter
July 30, 2010 Le Concert
August 20, 2010 Piranha 3D produced by Dimension Films
August 20, 2010 The Tillman Story
October 8, 2010 Nowhere Boy
December 3, 2010 All Good Things International distributor
December 10, 2010 The Fighter international distribution
December 24, 2010 The King's Speech Winner of the Academy Award for Best Picture
December 31, 2010 Blue Valentine
January 21, 2011 The Company Men
March 25, 2011 Miral co-production with Pathé
April 15, 2011 Scream 4 produced by Dimension Films
April 29, 2011 Hoodwinked Too! Hood vs. Evil the studio's first animated sequel, co-produced with Kanbar Entertainment
June 3, 2011 Submarine
July 22, 2011 Sarah's Key
August 19, 2011 Spy Kids: All the Time in the World produced by Dimension Films and Troublemaker Studios
August 26, 2011 Our Idiot Brother
September 2, 2011 Apollo 18 produced by Dimension Films
September 16, 2011 I Don't Know How She Does It
October 7, 2011 Dirty Girl
November 25, 2011 My Week with Marilyn
November 25, 2011 The Artist Winner of the Academy Award for Best Picture
December 30, 2011 The Iron Lady
January 20, 2012 Coriolanus
February 3, 2012 W.E.
February 17, 2012 Undefeated
March 30, 2012 Bully
May 25, 2012 The Intouchables
June 1, 2012 Piranha 3DD produced by Dimension Films
August 31, 2012 Lawless
September 14, 2012 The Master produced by Annapurna Pictures
October 5, 2012 Butter
November 2, 2012 This Must Be the Place
November 16, 2012 Silver Linings Playbook
November 30, 2012 Killing Them Softly
December 25, 2012 Django Unchained co-production with Columbia Pictures, North American Distribution Only
February 15, 2013 Escape from Planet Earth co-production with Rainmaker Entertainment
February 22, 2013 Dark Skies produced by Dimension Films
March 1, 2013 Quartet
March 22, 2013 The Sapphires
April 12, 2013 Scary Movie 5 produced by Dimension Films
July 12, 2013 Fruitvale Station
August 16, 2013 The Butler
August 23, 2013 The Grandmaster
November 22, 2013 Philomena
November 29, 2013 Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom with 20th Century Fox
December 27, 2013 August: Osage County produced by Smokehouse Pictures
January 17, 2014 The Nut Job International distributor; North American distribution by Open Road Films
February 7, 2014 Vampire Academy produced by Reliance Entertainment
April 4, 2014 On the Other Side of the Tracks
April 11, 2014 The Railway Man
May 16, 2014 The Immigrant produced by Worldview Entertainment
June 27, 2014 Begin Again produced by Apatow Productions
August 15, 2014 The Giver produced with Walden Media
August 22, 2014 Sin City: A Dame to Kill For produced by Dimension Films, Miramax and Troublemaker Studios
September 12, 2014 The Disappearance of Eleanor Rigby
September 19, 2014 Tracks
October 10, 2014 One Chance
October 24, 2014 St. Vincent produced by FilmNation Entertainment
November 21, 2014 The Imitation Game[1]
December 25, 2014 Big Eyes
January 16, 2015 Paddington as TWC-Dimension; US distributor; produced by StudioCanal and Heyday Films
March 13, 2015 Eva
April 1, 2015 Woman in Gold
July 24, 2015 Southpaw
July 31, 2015 The Young and Prodigious T.S. Spivet
August 26, 2015 No Escape
October 30, 2015 Burnt
November 20, 2015 Carol
December 4, 2015 Macbeth
December 25, 2015 The Hateful Eight
January 29, 2016 Jane Got a Gun
February 5, 2016 Regression
February 26, 2016 Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Sword of Destiny with Netflix
April 15, 2016 Sing Street
August 26, 2016 Hands of Stone
September 16, 2016 Wild Oats
November 25, 2016 Lion
January 20, 2017 The Founder
January 27, 2017 Gold as TWC-Dimension
May 5, 2017 3 Generations
August 4, 2017 Wind River[2]
August 11, 2017 The Nut Job 2: Nutty by Nature International distributor; North American distribution by Open Road Films
August 25, 2017 Leap![3] US distributor; produced by Quad Productions
September 1, 2017 Tulip Fever co-production with Worldview Entertainment, Paramount Pictures and Ruby Films
September 1, 2017 The Guardian Brothers[4][5] US distributor; produced by Mizchief and Light Chaser Animation Studios, Netflix release[6]
Upcoming films
Release Date Title Notes
2018 Polaroid with Dimension Films
The Current War[7]
Hotel Mumbai
The Man with the Iron Heart
The War with Grandpa as TWC-Dimension
Mary Magdalene
The Upside
Untitled Furby film[8] in association with Hasbro Studios
TV series
Title Years Network Notes
Project Runway 2005-present Lifetime co-production with Miramax Television
The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency 2008-2009 BBC One
On the Road with Austin & Santino 2010 Lifetime
Mob Wives 2011-2016 VH1
Mob Wives Chicago 2012 VH1
Big Ang 2012 VH1
Miami Monkey 2013 VH1
Peaky Blinders 2013-present BBC Two USA distribution only
Marco Polo 2014-2016 Netflix
War & Peace 2016 BBC One USA distribution only
Time: The Kalief Browder Story 2017 Spike
Spy Kids: Mission Critical 2018 Netflix co-production with Mainframe Studios and Troublemaker Studios
Waco 2018 Paramount Network
Yellowstone 2018 Paramount Network
The Reaper TBA NBC
Guantanamo Showtime
Radius-TWC
Release Date Title Notes
August 24, 2012 Solomon Kane
September 7, 2012 Bachelorette
October 5, 2012 Butter
October 26, 2012 Pusher
November 2, 2012 The Details
January 19, 2013 Inequality for All
April 5, 2013 6 Souls
May 10, 2013 Aftershock
May 17, 2013 Erased
June 21, 2013 20 Feet from Stardom Winner of the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature
July 19, 2013 Only God Forgives co-production with FilmDistrict, Gaumont, and Wild Bunch
August 9, 2013 Lovelace
August 16, 2013 Cutie and the Boxer
September 20, 2013 The Art of the Steal produced by Darius Films.
November 1, 2013 Man of Tai Chi produced by Universal Pictures, Village Roadshow Pictures and China Film Group.
April 4, 2014 The Unknown Known
April 18, 2014 13 Sins produced by Dimension Films
April 25, 2014 Blue Ruin
May 9, 2014 Fed Up
June 6, 2014 Supermensch: The Legend of Shep Gordon
June 27, 2014 Snowpiercer
August 22, 2014 14 Blades
September 19, 2014 Keep On Keepin' On
October 10, 2014 Citizenfour Winner of the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature
October 31, 2014 Horns co-distributed with Dimension Films; produced by Red Granite Pictures and Mandalay Pictures
February 13, 2015 The Last Five Years
February 27, 2015 Everly
March 13, 2015 It Follows co-distributed with Dimension Films
April 17, 2015 Monsters: Dark Continent
April 24, 2015 Adult Beginners
May 29, 2015 Heaven Knows What
June 26, 2015 Escobar: Paradise Lost
July 31, 2015 A Lego Brickumentary
September 11, 2015 Goodnight Mommy
July 29, 2016 Viral co-distributed with Dimension Films

Anyway..... regardless.... forced out is forced out.... the only real due process involved with weinstein is what was in his contract.... but when that many people are making claims....well.... your fucked..... but still..... if i remember correctly.... he only denied sexual assaults/rape..... not the harassment..... sooooooo..... you were saying?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:58 am 
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In the real world there are always facts. I know most of my staff members and I know their work histories. I know their co workers. There are lots of ways to determine who is or is not telling the truth in most cases. Of course where you can't make any determination, what you do depends upon what is alleged. I can think of a number of different scenarios. I don't know that I have one solution that would fairly address all of them. As I said earlier, you make decisions based on the facts and circumstances in each case. You do your best to arrive at solutions that are unbiased and impartial. Dealing with people is not like doing math.

No, it's not. Far more complex. As I said in the beginning, this movement is going to change our workplace radically. I don't think you realize just how much.

And I'm sorry, "knowing your coworkers and their histories" doesn't cut it. It's another cop-out. You know as well as I do that people can have far more faces they show, and what they are in private are often far different than their public personas. That's exactly why we're in the shape we are today - you have a long-time manager with a spotless record, and a young woman, new to the company, but doesn't have a sterling, say, personal persona. Let's say she dates a lot.

Then she makes an accusation against that manager. Well, you know him better, and can't believe it.

With no proof, you get rid of the woman. There you are, unbiased and impartial. And you very possibly made the wrong decisions, because those are the decisions made every day in this company. Of course, since she's gone, you sure aren't going to have anyone else make such an accusation, are you?

The worst thing most companies do, is how they deal with sexual harassment.

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"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:00 am 
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Well, I believe GoU meant Rob Porter.

Porter is the one who had been in Trump's Cabinet until recent scandals. BTW, he's resigned. As has been stated, one doesn't know if he was asked to, or did of his own initiative.

Confusingly enough, I just checked Wiki, and yeah, Rob Porter had once worked for Sen. Rob Portman.

The latter was never given a Trump admin post, though he did serve in the Bush admin.

Incidentally, I notice Wiki now says, at top, above Sen. Rob Portman's article, "not to be confused with Rob Porter." :oops: :? :mrgreen:

Thank you, yes, my mistake.

And as to the Trump administration - it's asking for trouble if you have a young woman - and these are just rumors in the press - but if you have a young woman having serial affairs within a small group like this, it's a recipe for disaster.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:19 am 
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No, it's not. Far more complex. As I said in the beginning, this movement is going to change our workplace radically. I don't think you realize just how much.

And I'm sorry, "knowing your coworkers and their histories" doesn't cut it. It's another cop-out. You know as well as I do that people can have far more faces they show, and what they are in private are often far different than their public personas. That's exactly why we're in the shape we are today - you have a long-time manager with a spotless record, and a young woman, new to the company, but doesn't have a sterling, say, personal persona. Let's say she dates a lot.

Then she makes an accusation against that manager. Well, you know him better, and can't believe it.

With no proof, you get rid of the woman. There you are, unbiased and impartial. And you very possibly made the wrong decisions, because those are the decisions made every day in this company. Of course, since she's gone, you sure aren't going to have anyone else make such an accusation, are you?

The worst thing most companies do, is how they deal with sexual harassment.


No its not as complex as you make it seem. Your problem is that you assume you know what decisions people will make or how they will react. You don't. You don't have all the answers.

I read somewhere that statistically people lie more about this subject than any other issue in the workplace. That includes both the accused and the accuser. So assuming from the outset that one side is telling the truth, as you seem to suggest, doesn't seem to me to be a valid approach. I think you take all accusations seriously and do your best to gather all the facts and get to the unbiased truth. That means setting aside, as best you can, any personal bias you may have towards either employee.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 am 
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No its not as complex as you make it seem. Your problem is that you assume you know what decisions people will make or how they will react. You don't. You don't have all the answers.

I read somewhere that statistically people lie more about this subject than any other issue in the workplace. That includes both the accused and the accuser. So assuming from the outset that one side is telling the truth, as you seem to suggest, doesn't seem to me to be a valid approach. I think you take all accusations seriously and do your best to gather all the facts and get to the unbiased truth. That means setting aside, as best you can, any personal bias you may have towards either employee.

You're not a robot, as much as you just keep repeating BS statements about how unbiased you are. Everyone is biased.

And people lie about all kinds of things in the workplace. Probably more to people that do studies or take polls about what people lie about in the workplace.

I think that we're seeing that the right has no interest in making an attempt to make this situation better, just to act like everything's fine.

Kind of like how your side handles school shooting.

Again, we have a world where the man is believed 90% of the time, and the woman is looked at as lying. You don't seem to think that's a problem. That makes you part of the problem, not the solution, if you don't think there's a problem.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:10 pm 
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You're not a robot, as much as you just keep repeating BS statements about how unbiased you are. Everyone is biased.

And people lie about all kinds of things in the workplace. Probably more to people that do studies or take polls about what people lie about in the workplace.

I think that we're seeing that the right has no interest in making an attempt to make this situation better, just to act like everything's fine.

Kind of like how your side handles school shooting.

Again, we have a world where the man is believed 90% of the time, and the woman is looked at as lying. You don't seem to think that's a problem. That makes you part of the problem, not the solution, if you don't think there's a problem.


I never said there weren't problems. I merely told you my approach to handling those problems. I asked you what your approach and what your standard would be and all I got out of you was to approach the problem with a bias towards one side and then later to treat everybody with dignity and respect. That's it. So although we may both agree that there is a problem it doesn't appear you have any solutions. Your strategy is to listen to how other people approach the problem and then label it a "cop out". So tell us how you would approach these problems. Be as specific as you like.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Harvey Weinstein seemed to kick off #metoo, at least in its current phase ... and I still suspect if some of his accusers were not famous, well-known actresses whose name most people in this country have heard of, if they haven't seen in movies ... it might not have become the big deal it was.

Weinstein is now up to 84 accusers. 84! Now I understand ... sheer numbers of accusations aren't proof in themselves, I agree. But: the smoke-fire principle does seem to apply. It's kind of hard to fathom how all 84 accusers could be lying.

I'm just going to list the names of accusers I'm betting most everybody here will recognize.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/peo ... 804663001/

Roseanne Arquette
Kate Beckinsale
Heather Graham
Daryl Hannah
Salma Hayek
Angelina Jolie
Ashley Judd
Rose McGowan
Gwyneth Paltrow
Mira Sorvino
Sean Young

... and again, that's just some of the most well known actresses out of 84.

Dunno. They're not even porn stars. Should we not believe them?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:37 pm 
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I never said there weren't problems. I merely told you my approach to handling those problems. I asked you what your approach and what your standard would be and all I got out of you was to approach the problem with a bias towards one side and then later to treat everybody with dignity and respect. That's it. So although we may both agree that there is a problem it doesn't appear you have any solutions. Your strategy is to listen to how other people approach the problem and then label it a "cop out". So tell us how you would approach these problems. Be as specific as you like.

Well, the first thing I WON'T do is this:
I'm becoming better at resisting the temptation to speculate about whether the charges these women bring are valid or invalid. At first i did a little of that. But then I realized that I can't possibly read an article or two about it and know.

I stand for due process. Neither believing or disbelieving anyone. I say allow due process of courts of law to sort out the evidence. I'm done with calling for people to resign or be fired based upon an unruly mob's suspicion.

Standing on due process is right out - the time for protecting men is over - it's time to stand up and protect women. Yep, I admit to being an old-fashioned gentlemen - I stand up for women's rights, and I've seen too many women treated badly, especially in the corporate world. Women should NEVER lose their job or be forced out over making an accusation, unless and only if they are PROVED to be lying.

I don't think very many women lie, because the deck is so stacked against them, and they know they'll probably lose their job over their accusations. Do you really think that the women who called out Weinstein ENJOYED telling those stories to the world? When you make a complaint, you've just put a target on your back. That has to end.

But go ahead Joe, repeat your mantra. It probably help you think you're not part of the problem.

Since you wouldn't answer, I take it you've never been to any sexual harassment training. Any manager should HAVE to go to such training.

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"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:46 pm 
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Well, the first thing I WON'T do is this:

Standing on due process is right out - the time for protecting men is over - it's time to stand up and protect women. Yep, I admit to being an old-fashioned gentlemen - I stand up for women's rights, and I've seen too many women treated badly, especially in the corporate world. Women should NEVER lose their job or be forced out over making an accusation, unless and only if they are PROVED to be lying.

I don't think very many women lie, because the deck is so stacked against them, and they know they'll probably lose their job over their accusations. Do you really think that the women who called out Weinstein ENJOYED telling those stories to the world? When you make a complaint, you've just put a target on your back. That has to end.

But go ahead Joe, repeat your mantra. It probably help you think you're not part of the problem.

Since you wouldn't answer, I take it you've never been to any sexual harassment training. Any manager should HAVE to go to such training.


No I haven't been to a training that specifically addressed that specific topic. I have attended many management seminars where harassment and discrimination were covered among a number of other HR issues. I also have over 25 years of actual experience managing staffs composed of people of all races, religions, gender and sexual preferences. I am not going to pretend I know everything or that I am an expert in all things HR. But even with my limited knowledge I still have an approach to dealing with such issues. In all of the management seminars I have attended I never heard anyone advocating entering into an investigation with a bias towards one side or another. That's step one towards treating people with dignity and respect. I'm assuming that since you asked and based on the fact that you are so critical of others with actual experience, that you have had some formal sexual harassment training. Doesn't seem to have done you much good. You don't seem to have a strategy at all besides criticizing people who actually have had to make such decisions. I am not going to take a lecture on sexual harassment from a man who so easily dismissed Bill Clinton's accusers with the excuse that "you didn't see anything in his character" to lead you to believe he was capable of such a thing. Then today you follow that up with a statement "You know as well as I do that people can have far more faces they show, and what they are in private are often far different than their public personas." Contradict yourself much? I am not going to make a lecture on sexual harassment from a man that states he automatically assumes one side is telling the truth. Don't let your HR person or your legal counsel hear you say that. And let me clue you in. People lie. Men and women. That's also pretty much a given. So it appears to me that whatever training you may have had wasn't all that great.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:35 pm 
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No I haven't been to a training that specifically addressed that specific topic. I have attended many management seminars where harassment and discrimination were covered among a number of other HR issues. I also have over 25 years of actual experience managing staffs composed of people of all races, religions, gender and sexual preferences. I am not going to pretend I know everything or that I am an expert in all things HR. But even with my limited knowledge I still have an approach to dealing with such issues. In all of the management seminars I have attended I never heard anyone advocating entering into an investigation with a bias towards one side or another. That's step one towards treating people with dignity and respect. I'm assuming that since you asked and based on the fact that you are so critical of others with actual experience, that you have had some formal sexual harassment training. Doesn't seem to have done you much good. You don't seem to have a strategy at all besides criticizing people who actually have had to make such decisions. I am not going to take a lecture on sexual harassment from a man who so easily dismissed Bill Clinton's accusers with the excuse that "you didn't see anything in his character" to lead you to believe he was capable of such a thing. Then today you follow that up with a statement "You know as well as I do that people can have far more faces they show, and what they are in private are often far different than their public personas." Contradict yourself much? I am not going to make a lecture on sexual harassment from a man that states he automatically assumes one side is telling the truth. Don't let your HR person or your legal counsel hear you say that. And let me clue you in. People lie. Men and women. That's also pretty much a given. So it appears to me that whatever training you may have had wasn't all that great.

One has to look back at the Clinton issue with new eyes. I think he probably deserved to be impeached for his affair with the intern. I have changed my mind. As to the rape accusations - the problem I continue to have is they came out because a billionaire was funding a vendetta against Clinton. They were PAID to make the accusations. One of them had already testified under oath that nothing had occurred. So that's a special case. And you - Mr. "I'm completely unbiased" - you think Clinton is a rapist - so much for needing proof.

Again, you put your 25 years of experience on the table - well, the problem is, for the last 25 years, women have been treated quite unfairly, and not believed. You are steeped in the status quo where the deck was stacked against the woman.

And are you going to do anything differently going forward? Nope, you say, you're good with the status quo.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:59 pm 
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One has to look back at the Clinton issue with new eyes. I think he probably deserved to be impeached for his affair with the intern. I have changed my mind. As to the rape accusations - the problem I continue to have is they came out because a billionaire was funding a vendetta against Clinton. They were PAID to make the accusations. One of them had already testified under oath that nothing had occurred. So that's a special case. And you - Mr. "I'm completely unbiased" - you think Clinton is a rapist - so much for needing proof.

Again, you put your 25 years of experience on the table - well, the problem is, for the last 25 years, women have been treated quite unfairly, and not believed. You are steeped in the status quo where the deck was stacked against the woman.

And are you going to do anything differently going forward? Nope, you say, you're good with the status quo.


clarence thomas

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:27 pm 
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clarence thomas

Thomas was the one that SHOULD have went down. She had corroboration from other people, her story was FAR more believable than his, and she volunteered and passed a lie detector test, and of course Thomas refused. Plus, she had NOTHING to gain from stepping forward and to be attacked like she was.

But somehow conservatives seem to think that women just lie.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:13 pm 
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That's funny as shit..... like michael moore was the only.... or even most profitable thing weinstein's film company was involved in....lmfao. yes he collaborated on some of michael moore's projects. but there was a bit more to weinstein's company than.... "He distributed Michael Moore films"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... pany_films

..................

Anyway..... regardless.... forced out is forced out.... the only real due process involved with weinstein is what was in his contract.... but when that many people are making claims....well.... your fucked..... but still..... if i remember correctly.... he only denied sexual assaults/rape..... not the harassment..... sooooooo..... you were saying?


I was saying that's how I know who Harvey Weinstein is cause I remember Michael Moore having problems finding a distributor, not that thats all he did, unlike the other 2 people go u mentioned that I didnt know who they were.

ProfessorX wrote:
Harvey Weinstein seemed to kick off #metoo, at least in its current phase ... and I still suspect if some of his accusers were not famous, well-known actresses whose name most people in this country have heard of, if they haven't seen in movies ... it might not have become the big deal it was.

Weinstein is now up to 84 accusers. 84! Now I understand ... sheer numbers of accusations aren't proof in themselves, I agree. But: the smoke-fire principle does seem to apply. It's kind of hard to fathom how all 84 accusers could be lying.

I'm just going to list the names of accusers I'm betting most everybody here will recognize.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/peo ... 804663001/

Roseanne Arquette
Kate Beckinsale
Heather Graham
Daryl Hannah
Salma Hayek
Angelina Jolie
Ashley Judd
Rose McGowan
Gwyneth Paltrow
Mira Sorvino
Sean Young

... and again, that's just some of the most well known actresses out of 84.

Dunno. They're not even porn stars. Should we not believe them?


well I dont think you should disbelieve them I just think there needs to be a process thats fair to all parties. I know the general attitude is quite conservative now on employment security after decades of abuse and cruelty but I dont agree with it and wont aid or support that mindset. for a lot of people employment is life or death situation for a lot of vulnerable people like children they rely on that, now weinstein likely wouldnt have a problem paying his child support but not everyone is weinstein either.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:50 pm 
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One has to look back at the Clinton issue with new eyes. I think he probably deserved to be impeached for his affair with the intern. I have changed my mind. As to the rape accusations - the problem I continue to have is they came out because a billionaire was funding a vendetta against Clinton. They were PAID to make the accusations. One of them had already testified under oath that nothing had occurred. So that's a special case. And you - Mr. "I'm completely unbiased" - you think Clinton is a rapist - so much for needing proof.

Again, you put your 25 years of experience on the table - well, the problem is, for the last 25 years, women have been treated quite unfairly, and not believed. You are steeped in the status quo where the deck was stacked against the woman.

And are you going to do anything differently going forward? Nope, you say, you're good with the status quo.


Well it's wonderful that you now see the world with new eyes. Things have changed dramatically in the past few months for you. I will put 25 years of real world experience actually dealing with people and situations versus whatever you think you learned in a seminar. Not that seminars aren't good things. They are. But where do you think people develop that material to present to folks like you? In the field. That's where. You come in here and try to lecture people who have a helluva lot more experience than you actually dealing with these issues. Not some hypothetical. You screw up in a seminar. No big deal. In the field, those decisions affect real people and the choices aren't always so cut and dry. They have real consequences. So if the new world order in your eyes is to make up your mind before you have the facts or to walk into a situation with your mind already made, good luck to you. Hope you have good legal counsel. As a manager, I am not an advocate for either side. In that case, I am a judge who is supposed to look for the truth in the matter and make a decision.

I worked for an air conditioning distributor once a few years back. The owner hired a consultant who was a "business expert" but had no knowledge of air conditioning or the air conditioning business. He went out and bought a book on air conditioners and became an "expert" overnight. We took a large group of our dealers on a trip to visit the manufacturing plant and to meet with their engineers. I walked into one of the breakout sessions and this dickhead was in front of their engineers and our customers instructing them on the proper way to clean air conditioning coils. He embarrassed himself and the owner in front of our customers and our largest distributor. Seminars and books are great but they are no substitute for experience in the field.

I am all for equality in the workplace. I am all for establishing a work environment free of harassment and discrimination where people are judged by their work ethic, their skills and their knowledge. My track record is pretty good in this area. So if you develop a better strategy that you can articulate, I am happy to have the discussion. But if you have nothing to offer but criticism based what you heard in a seminar, then I got better things to do.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:03 am 
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Thomas was the one that SHOULD have went down. She had corroboration from other people, her story was FAR more believable than his, and she volunteered and passed a lie detector test, and of course Thomas refused. Plus, she had NOTHING to gain from stepping forward and to be attacked like she was.

But somehow conservatives seem to think that women just lie.


Even JDs have to lawyer up when going up against these men.

Anita Hill, however, was a slut who wanted it.

:problem:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:10 am 
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No I haven't been to a training that specifically addressed that specific topic.


Yeah, it shows, both in your dismissiveness of the topic and derision of these "seminars". They're not "seminars", they're trainings in which you have the opportunity to actually learn something.

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