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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:47 pm 
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If Republicans are in power, there MIGHT be an impeachment, but there won't be a removal. I don't think that proving collusion with Russia to overturn the election would get enough Republicans to vote against Trump.

But he could shut down the Mueller investigation, and I think five members of the court would back him in getting rid of Mueller. Plus the Republicans.

Hell, Joe, YOU won't even say what you think should be done if he fires Mueller and ends the investigation.


I have said on numerous times that Mueller should be given time to complete his investigation. I have said that over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread. Do I think that Mueller should be allowed a permanent four year contract to investigate the President? No, but he should be allowed a reasonable amount of time to fully investigate the allegations. I really don't know how I can be any clearer than that. If you are too dense to understand plain written english then I do not know that I have a cure for stupid that will work for you.

As far as terminating Mueller, I have seen no grounds for his termination. I do not favor his termination. So until I see clear and convincing evidence to the contrary, my position on Mueller remains unchanged. If Trump fires him or terminates the investigation prematurely, then I think that is grounds for impeachment on obstruction of justice. I have said that numerous times.

I hope Mr. Mueller works quickly to conclude his investigation and fully present his findings. Let the chips fall where they may.


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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:51 pm 
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I have said on numerous times that Mueller should be given time to complete his investigation. I have said that over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread. Do I think that Mueller should be allowed a permanent four year contract to investigate the President? No, but he should be allowed a reasonable amount of time to fully investigate the allegations. I really don't know how I can be any clearer than that. If you are too dense to understand plain written english then I do not know that I have a cure for stupid that will work for you.

As far as terminating Mueller, I have seen no grounds for his termination. I do not favor his termination. So until I see clear and convincing evidence to the contrary, my position on Mueller remains unchanged. If Trump fires him or terminates the investigation prematurely, then I think that is grounds for impeachment on obstruction of justice. I have said that numerous times.

I hope Mr. Mueller works quickly to conclude his investigation and fully present his findings. Let the chips fall where they may.

Well, we'll see. He's trying to attack our system of justice. It's hilarious that supposed "law-and-order" Republicans have no problem with that.

I think, if he fires Mueller, most Republicans will back him.


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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Well, we'll see. He's trying to attack our system of justice. It's hilarious that supposed "law-and-order" Republicans have no problem with that.

I think, if he fires Mueller, most Republicans will back him.


Time will tell.


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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Well, we'll see. He's trying to attack our system of justice. It's hilarious that supposed "law-and-order" Republicans have no problem with that.

I think, if he fires Mueller, most Republicans will back him.


How many times have you and others here predicted that Trump was firing Mueller? I am guessing well over 10. One thing I would like to see is Mueller to get it over with. At this rate if he does find something substantial it will be so close to Trump's term being over it won't matter.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:06 pm 
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How many times have you and others here predicted that Trump was firing Mueller? I am guessing well over 10. One thing I would like to see is Mueller to get it over with. At this rate if he does find something substantial it will be so close to Trump's term being over it won't matter.

"find something substantial?" How about this, glen?

Attachment:
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IMG_2387.JPG [ 145.88 KiB | Viewed 240 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Hmm, this is interesting:

Brett Kavanaugh and the Mueller Investigation: What Do His Writings Really Say?

https://www.lawfareblog.com/brett-kavan ... really-say

Quote:
If Kavanaugh’s writings on special counsel investigations really influenced Trump’s decision to nominate him, then Trump is a bigger fool than I have imagined. Kavanaugh’s writings on the subject don’t clarify all of his views on the subject of the Mueller investigation. But they clarify certain big things, and those things are really not good for Donald Trump. Noah Feldman writes that “Properly understood, Kavanaugh’s expressed views actually support the opposite conclusion” than the one to which many knees are jerking. Feldman is exactly right. In some respects, he actually understates the case.

...snip...

Kavanaugh, by contrast, made the then-unpopular case that some independent counsel law remained necessary: “future debates,” he wrote, “should not focus on whether a special counsel statute is necessary, but rather on the more pertinent questions of by whom and under what conditions a special counsel should be appointed.” He went on to sketch out what a healthier independent counsel law might look like—healthier as a matter of constitutional law, as a matter of policy and as a matter of democratic governance. While Congress did not take him up on writing this particular law, his specific proposal bears attention today by those who are interested in how Kavanaugh might respond to the Office of Special Counsel in the age of Trump. Three things in particular stand out.

The first is that the structure he describes looks a great deal like the regulatory structure under which Robert Mueller serves. Yes, there are differences. Kavanaugh proposed (cleverly, in my view) that an independent counsel be appointed by the president with the advice and consent of the Senate; Mueller, by contrast, was appointed by the acting attorney general. But the key point is that Mueller was not, as happened under the old independent counsel law, appointed by a panel of judges. In other respects, Mueller’s appointment closely tracks Kavanaugh’s proposal. Kavanaugh would have given the president discretion as to when to appoint a special counsel; Mueller was appointed at the discretion of Trump’s administration. Kavanaugh’s proposal would have allowed the president to remove the special counsel, with or without cause; the regulation under which Mueller serves permits his removal for cause only, but the regulation itself can be rescinded at any time. And Kavanaugh’s proposal would allow the attorney general to determine the special counsel’s jurisdiction, precisely what the acting attorney general did in Mueller’s case. In other words, Mueller looks a great deal like the type of special prosecutor Kavanaugh wrote an entire law review article to propose.

This does not bode well for, say, an embrace of Steven Calabresi’s recent argument against the constitutionality of the Mueller probe should the president’s lawyers bring such a claim before a Justice Kavanaugh.

...snip...

Third, and perhaps most interestingly, Kavanaugh proposed in this article that Congress codify what he described as “current law of executive privilege available in criminal litigation to the effect that the president may not maintain any executive privilege, other than a national security privilege, in response to a grand jury or criminal trial subpoena sought by the United States.” Pause over that for a second. In 1998, Brett Kavanaugh stated his view (correct under Eighth Circuit precedent obtained by the Starr investigation) that current law already precluded the president of the United States from citing executive privilege in a criminal investigation. And he proposed that Congress codify this rule into a new independent counsel statute.

...snip...

Now let’s turn to the dreaded four pages of Kavanaugh’s 2009 Minnesota article. These pages nowhere suggest that he has rethought his view of the law. They nowhere suggest that he has come to believe in some constitutional defect in the structure he proposed in 1998, under a close cousin of which Mueller currently serves. They nowhere suggest that he has come to believe that the law of privilege is more favorable to the president than he outlined in his Georgetown article.

What the article says is that after having watched President George W. Bush up close for a number of years, serving as staff secretary and as a lawyer, Kavanaugh now believed he had previously underestimated the demands of the presidency and the dangers of distracting the president with civil and criminal matters. And he suggests as a policy matter that “Congress [should] enact a statute providing that any personal civil suits against presidents ... be deferred while the President is in office” and that “Congress should consider doing the same ... with respect to criminal investigations and prosecutions of the President.” He writes that “Congress might consider a law exempting a President—while in office—from criminal prosecution and investigation, including from questioning by criminal prosecutors or defense counsel.” And he adds in a footnote that, “For fairness’s sake, this proposal may also require extension of the relevant statutes of limitation.”


I always like a better read on the context. This very long Witts article is filled with that context. "Benjamin Wittes is editor in chief of Lawfare and a Senior Fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution. He is the author of several books and is co-chair of the Hoover Institution's Working Group on National Security, Technology, and Law."

This article is off of the top shelf insofar as credibility. :|

My problem with Kavanaugh stems from his past rulings. This article doesn't change that view.

I've not been sweating this "He's going to rule for Trump and Trump is going to get to walk" screed.

If you've been worried about it this shows that your worry may be misplaced. Keep in mind anything Kavanaugh thinks Congress ought to enact, he doesn't think the Constitution provides for. As thus he isn't likely to try to create it and set it in place in a court ruling.

The ones you need to watch out for are the ones who think the Constitution already has it covered and only he and founders can/could see it, and everyone else is wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:09 am 
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That was 80-100 years ago.


The goal of conservative whites is to return the country to “80-100 years ago” and beyond.

We can tell by you all’s attitudes against Central American and all Latino immigrant children in cages, forcible separation from parents, paying for it with misappropriated funds, no plans to reunite them, and desires to incarcerate entire migrant families INDEFINITELY.

#MAGA
#prolife
#traditionalfamilyvalues

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:38 am 
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We know why Trump selected Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh has openly let us all know. Kavanaugh believes that a sitting president is too busy to have to worry about being indicted for malfeasance or for crimes and misdemeanors against the country in violation of his oath. According to Kavanaugh, Donald Trump is der furer. It's not brain surgery or rocket science why this asshole has been selected.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:51 am 
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Dred Scott case 1857; Plessy 1896;


The only people vile enough to post things like this in 2018, let alone act on it are conservative whites.

You guys have 400 years of this behavior under your belts.

Image

Signs urging Omaha residents to report 'illegal aliens' spotted in Dundee - KETV

This is Fugitive Slave Law era mentality, which conservative whites have not altered one iota in 150+ years. All they did was change the fonts.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:55 am 
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We know why Trump selected Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh has openly let us all know. Kavanaugh believes that a sitting president is too busy to have to worry about being indicted for malfeasance or for crimes and misdemeanors against the country in violation of his oath. According to Kavanaugh, Donald Trump is der furer. It's not brain surgery or rocket science why this asshole has been selected.


Yes. Another pliant, conformist, sycophantic-authoritarian white con. I don’t think very many of them are interested in living independent lives.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:28 am 
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We know why Trump selected Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh has openly let us all know. Kavanaugh believes that a sitting president is too busy to have to worry about being indicted for malfeasance or for crimes and misdemeanors against the country in violation of his oath. According to Kavanaugh, Donald Trump is der furer. It's not brain surgery or rocket science why this asshole has been selected.


Kavanaugh is a blanket admission of guilt by 45. He knows he is guilty is insuring that should it come to Impeachment that 45 gets a free walk.

As for glen and his continuing defense of 45, Quisling is to good a name for the likes of glen, he is a traitor.

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Last edited by marindem on Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:25 am 
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That was 80-100 years ago.


Like the attitudes of the majority of white christian Americans towards anybody who is not a white Christian American has changed all that much in the last 150 years. Sixty percent of white christian Americans voted for Donald Trump.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Well, we'll see. He's trying to attack our system of justice. It's hilarious that supposed "law-and-order" Republicans have no problem with that.

I think, if he fires Mueller, most Republicans will back him.


We dont have a system of justice. What we have is a legal system. Any actual justice that is delivered happens purely by accident.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:40 pm 
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We dont have a system of justice. What we have is a legal system. Any actual justice that is delivered happens purely by accident.

If a democratic prez appointed any judge at any level to purely protect him or her legally like rump is doing, the country would be in physical turmoil. The GOP would announce that if it goes thru there will be violence and the deplorables would be buying more and more guns by the millions and ammo.

then if somehow a Dem prez managed to appoint that judge for the sole purpose of covering up his or her crimes, massive numbers of patriots would be shot in the streets by freedumbers.

nobody would come here on a trip to visit, they would know it is too dangerous to be here at that time, chaos would break out.

A republican does it and not one word, not one.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Sure. But at some point we have to be honest and admit that Democratic politicians have not done any better than Republican politicians when it comes to providing the people with an actual system of justice.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Sure. But at some point we have to be honest and admit that Democratic politicians have not done any better than Republican politicians when it comes to providing the people with an actual system of justice.

Well we have white and corporate justice, just not for minorities and that has always been the case.

Also most poor dont get true justice, yes.

We made amazing leaps forward with Roe, Brown V Board, Reynolds v. Sims, Loving v. Virginia, Griswold v. Connecticut, and others.

Here is an example of what we are now going back to, btw



Quote:
1972Eisenstadt v. Baird, 405 U.S. 438. The Court strikes down a state law that allows the distribution of contraception to married adults while prohibiting it to unmarried adults, holding that this law violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. This decision establishes that the right to privacy protects access to contraception for married and unmarried individuals alike. The ACLU files an amicus brief in


Actually I suspect we will soon see abortion is murder as a federal law and birth control is also federally illegal. I hope I live long enough to see it all along with climate change, in the case of the court I will want to ask "nose holders" and whiners and "I just can't trust her's"

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:36 pm 
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If a democratic prez appointed any judge at any level to purely protect him or her legally like rump is doing, the country would be in physical turmoil. The GOP would announce that if it goes thru there will be violence and the deplorables would be buying more and more guns by the millions and ammo.

then if somehow a Dem prez managed to appoint that judge for the sole purpose of covering up his or her crimes, massive numbers of patriots would be shot in the streets by freedumbers.

nobody would come here on a trip to visit, they would know it is too dangerous to be here at that time, chaos would break out.

A republican does it and not one word, not one.

Donald Trump lacks the ability to think in those terms. He, imo, couldn't and didn't pull Kavanaugh's name out of thin air. To select a justice with the speed that he did underscores that others with far more intellectual resources to draw upon came up with Kavanaugh. That he was part of the process in Bush V Gore and part of the Bush2 administrations along with his writings highlights something else. That something is the unitary executive theory which has raged since the founding of the government under the constitution. If, as believed by unitary executive theorist, the president has complete power over the executive branch then are we to assume that means that a president like Trump can simply abolish whole departments established by law by the legislative branch? Does that mean that presidential pardons beyond pardoning less than, shall we say, deserving, individuals includes pardoning himself? Where does presidential power end? Does it include ignoring subpoenas?

This is the danger a jurist like Kavanaugh represents. It is not getting Trump off although that is part of it. It is that such a jurist may side with others in majority decisions impacting the government for possibly many years to come.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Yeah, but the ONLY reason rump picked him is for his desire to avoid justice.

Rump as you say knows nothing about the cases this person will destroy nor does he care.

Without exaggeration Donald Trump knows nothing, at all, about the law or the constitution and he knows NOTHING at all about real estate or business in general.

Nothing.

He hires people who do know some things and he uses money from russia to buy things and has others run them and the only direct supervision he has is no black people can work for him and no vendors or contractors are to ever be paid what they are owed.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:43 pm 
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As for a justice system, there is no such thing. Point to something named justice. What we have is a legal system that allegedly punishes behavior. Odd that conservatives claim that you can not legislate behavior when that is precisely what law does. So what we seek is equal treatment under the law. And because of that we naturally end up with a system mandated and operated by people with biases and prejudice. So it is unsurprising that such a system, created while slavery raged, would be tilted against equal treatment of minorities. The same applies regarding women and the LGBTQ community. Wealthy white men created the system and we should not be surprised that it requires laws and judicial cases to reach toward equal treatment and that said actions would be fought tooth and nail.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Yeah, but the ONLY reason rump picked him is for his desire to avoid justice.

Rump as you say knows nothing about the cases this person will destroy nor does he care.

Without exaggeration Donald Trump knows nothing, at all, about the law or the constitution and he knows NOTHING at all about real estate or business in general.

Nothing.

He hires people who do know some things and he uses money from russia to buy things and has others run them and the only direct supervision he has is no black people can work for him and no vendors or contractors are to ever be paid what they are owed.

I doubt it. Imo, there are likely many who would cover Trump's ass. Those who put his name forth, again, imo, did so because it would meet Trump's needs but more importantly meet their needs. They are playing a much longer game than Trump.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:47 pm 
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I dont understand what you doubt, rump said bring me someone who will make it so I cant be indicted, so they did. We of course know this justice is also there to destroy all advances made in this country the past 75 years but beyond pleasing his filthy base of deplorable scum, he doesnt know what the justices believe or cares.

Rump has never known anything about anything, anyone who still thinks he is a clever businessperson is not paying attention.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:59 pm 
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I dont understand what you doubt, rump said bring me someone who will make it so I cant be indicted, so they did. We of course know this justice is also there to destroy all advances made in this country the past 75 years but beyond pleasing his filthy base of deplorable scum, he doesnt know what the justices believe or cares.

Rump has never known anything about anything, anyone who still thinks he is a clever businessperson is not paying attention.

While that is possible other characteristics were necessary. Someone whose sole criterion was “getting Trump off” would likely have faced a much stiffer challenge including what few Republican Senators that might have a conscience. Imo, this choice was waiting having been picked by others in advance. The party itself needs such justices to further implement their agenda.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:00 pm 
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YOu are talking about the party, rump is what I am talking about.

He had ONE criteria, this guy fits it.

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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:03 pm 
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YOu are talking about the party, rump is what I am talking about.

He had ONE criteria, this guy fits it.

Yes, I don’t argue that. Trump is the person with power to select. But he lacks the intellectual capacity to do so. Thus the party players selected someone who didn’t just meet Trump’s needs as it is possible he won’t be re-elected even if he isn’t indicted. They selected someone who is long term dangerous.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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 Post subject: Re: SC Pick - Kavanaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:05 pm 
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Yes, I don’t argue that. Trump is the person with power to select. But he lacks the intellectual capacity to do so. Thus the party players selected someone who didn’t just meet Trump’s needs as it is possible he won’t be re-elected even if he isn’t indicted. They selected someone who is long term dangerous.

yeah, I said that in the beginning.

At first, btw, when I heard how mainstream GOP this guy is (mainstream GOP means yes he will destroy America but not as fast as a Nazi would) I was a little confused, till I heard he has guaranteed the prez he will NOT face justice as long as he is prez.

Did you hear the guy talk about what a great prez and thinker he is when nominated?

I am angry, I hope there are millions more just as angry.

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