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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:05 am 
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The OP was about civility towards others on this MB. I agree with that. If I was rude to Timmeh, it's not just because we disagreed or I had my doubts he was a Russian troll. It's because he was rude to me and other people on this MB. My personal position is I give what I get. If you are polite to me, you will get it back in return. But no, I don't feel any particular need to be peoples' secondary mamma and police their behavior. If somebody wants to call somebody a MF'er ... well, it's not like I avoid swear words, either. If necessary, that's what moderators are for. There are rules about personal attacks - I am not a moderator, not my job to enforce them.

About this general discussion about civility going on in society, I would almost be willing to engage it if most of the people calling for it are so ridiculously hypocritical about not even coming close to practicing what they preach. Maybe somebody in his own party or on his staff should tell the Moron-in-Chief not to call people "Pocohontas" or "Horseface" or other mocking names. But yeah, as long as he's going to do it, I will call him Agent Orange, Moron-in-Chief, and other mocking names, too. The office he holds might deserve some respect, but he personally deserves none.

To me, it seems highly appropriate.

BTW, also, I do not think asking public officials in public places about how they can live with themselves for enforcing inhumane policies is uncivil. It is also not the same thing as calling somebody a communist (when they are not) and chasing them around a building, screaming that ridiculous epithet at them in a real-life "angry mob". One is protest/assembly and the right to redress of grievances ... the other is harassment.

I would have been fine if they questioned Pelosi about some policy toward Cuba she was supporting. That is their right. But to call her a communist, bang on the walls of the building, scream at her for no reason ... that is harassment.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:38 am 
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I think the quickest way to through the baby out with the bath water, to dismantle our society, is lose our prevailing majority who maintain civility towards others on this MB as well and more importunately everywhere in life.

People become uncivil when they are treated in an uncivil fashion. Someone starts it but who, the who started it is often lost in the resulting tit for tat.


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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:58 am 
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While I agree that we got into a lot of the trouble we're in by assuming the other side would keep politics fairly civil, the cons on this board have actually done a pretty good job of keeping it to issues. Or at least, the ones that didn't get banned have done so.


Here's my take on this. We basically have two regular right-wingjob posters plus ted. The latter simply being an annoyance, like a mosquito in the bedroom at night or somebody who always farts in the elevator.

But the other two...we got the moronic troll, and then we got the master of civil discussion. Which is a bullshit strategy to obscure who he is...and who everybody like him, acctually are. Bigots with no integrity who would watch, and applaud, and vote for the Republican party and it's attempt to economically and politically disenfranchise every non-white, non-christian, non-ideology sharing citizen of this country.

Fuck them and the horses they rode in on. All of them.

Y'know Zowie...you rightly mentioned a few days ago that "issues" were dead. And you are absolutely right. But those to continue to try to promote their white christian confederate issues deserve every low kick I can deliver.

So you have a nice day, man. As for the other three...have a nice day and go fuck yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:13 am 
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Forget I said anything. You've convinced me. Apologies all around.

I wasn't referring to the Republican "angry mob" stuff, which is just more word salad of a type they've excelled at since Newt Gingrich's phrasebook.

There's a second problem. I forgot The First Rule of BBSing:

Do not ask angry people to change their behavior, or they will all become angry at you.

I don't make obvious mistakes like this very often. Of course, that brings up The Second Rule of BBSing:

A slip of the virtual lip can sink your virtual ship.

In many cases, one is all it takes. Away all boats........

I hope we still get along.

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"Our democratic institutions... seem to have been upended by frat-boy billionaires from California," remarked Canadian politician Charlie Angus. (BBC, 11/27/18)


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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:44 am 
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Also, there's a practical reason the Black Power movement emerged out of people involved in CORE, SNCC and other student activist groups, i.e. the people on the front lines of these integration efforts. The closest the handful of openly armed groups ever came to actual "belligerence" or the "militancy" they were so often ascribed, was stockpiling guns. And even with that, turns out guns guy Richard Aoki, one of the founding members of the Black Panther Party, also just so happened to be an FBI informant at that time. :problem:

Who in the heck wants to keep getting coffee poured on them and cigarettes put out on them to make it legal to sit at a lunch counter, while so-called "moderates" tell them to be civil and patient?

This country demands civility behavior from minorities that too many people of the majority don't even engage in, themselves. And yet, we could each be Mother Teresas. We'll still be labeled uncivil or whatever.


The Panthers (The Black Panther Party For Self Defense), for all their militant pretense, supported some very good programs in East Oakland. The Free Breakfast Progam, Pre-School and Child Care for working Mothers.

Stokely Carmichael (aka "Kwame Ture") finally broke the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (S.N.C.C.) over their Non-Violent approach to the violence used against Civil Rights Workers, Black and White. His speech making after the break with S.N.C.C. was mainly based on Rhetoric, but he was a strong presense in the American Civil Rights Movement for many years.

Walking around with Rifles and Pistols scared the living crap out White Nationalists who see themselves as the vicitim. Whites like David Duke have tried to mainstream the Klan, but we still see the Klan for what it is. Racists hiding under their hoods and bleating about how the Poor Put Upon White Man is the real victim.

I like how Duke was portrayed in "Black Klansman". A White Man desparate to prove how the color of skin make him somehow better just because he was White.

You cannot have a "Civil Discussion" with people who view you as less than human because of the Color of Your Skin or How You Choose To Worship Your Version of Your God.

These people do not to talk, they want to hurt, to torture and to kill.

There is no room for civility with these people.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:56 am 
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Forget I said anything. You've convinced me. Apologies all around.

I wasn't referring to the Republican "angry mob" stuff, which is just more word salad of a type they've excelled at since Newt Gingrich's phrasebook.

There's a second problem. I forgot The First Rule of BBSing:

Do not ask angry people to change their behavior, or they will all become angry at you.

I don't make obvious mistakes like this very often. Of course, that brings up The Second Rule of BBSing:

A slip of the virtual lip can sink your virtual ship.

In many cases, one is all it takes. Away all boats........

I hope we still get along.

You have always been on my side, even when I was being an asshole, so we will always get along. :hug:

Your motives have always been clear to me and they are good. Plus,you are a F1 fan, so hey, AUSTIN TEXAS today!

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


Last edited by Libertas on Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Forget I said anything. You've convinced me. Apologies all around.

I wasn't referring to the Republican "angry mob" stuff, which is just more word salad of a type they've excelled at since Newt Gingrich's phrasebook.

There's a second problem. I forgot The First Rule of BBSing:

Do not ask angry people to change their behavior, or they will all become angry at you.

I don't make obvious mistakes like this very often. Of course, that brings up The Second Rule of BBSing:

A slip of the virtual lip can sink your virtual ship.

In many cases, one is all it takes. Away all boats........

I hope we still get along.


Well put. And yes we get along, it's why I wished you a nice day.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:07 pm 
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The OP was about civility towards others on this MB. I agree with that. If I was rude to Timmeh, it's not just because we disagreed or I had my doubts he was a Russian troll. It's because he was rude to me and other people on this MB. My personal position is I give what I get. If you are polite to me, you will get it back in return. But no, I don't feel any particular need to be peoples' secondary mamma and police their behavior. If somebody wants to call somebody a MF'er ... well, it's not like I avoid swear words, either. If necessary, that's what moderators are for. There are rules about personal attacks - I am not a moderator, not my job to enforce them.

About this general discussion about civility going on in society, I would almost be willing to engage it if most of the people calling for it are so ridiculously hypocritical about not even coming close to practicing what they preach. Maybe somebody in his own party or on his staff should tell the Moron-in-Chief not to call people "Pocohontas" or "Horseface" or other mocking names. But yeah, as long as he's going to do it, I will call him Agent Orange, Moron-in-Chief, and other mocking names, too. The office he holds might deserve some respect, but he personally deserves none.

To me, it seems highly appropriate.

BTW, also, I do not think asking public officials in public places about how they can live with themselves for enforcing inhumane policies is uncivil. It is also not the same thing as calling somebody a communist (when they are not) and chasing them around a building, screaming that ridiculous epithet at them in a real-life "angry mob". One is protest/assembly and the right to redress of grievances ... the other is harassment.

I would have been fine if they questioned Pelosi about some policy toward Cuba she was supporting. That is their right. But to call her a communist, bang on the walls of the building, scream at her for no reason ... that is harassment.


It's harassment and if they are not careful it can turn into legal, Brandenburg-clause incitement.

Donald Trump is lucky that the confederates in North Carolina law enforcement stopped a pursuit of incitement charges against him when he called for violence against protesters in the building, right from the podium.

People handwringing about so-called "civility" (again, I am not talking about the OP) typically ignore that this is the current state any one seeking to protest the policies of this administration are up against. Same for any actual journalist seeking to report actual news about this administration.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Rump is involved in the planning and cover up of a murder of a journalist

is telling his base to physically attack liberals



https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status ... 0211303027


Quote:
Trump is unstable and dangerous.

He's threatening voters, promising passage of a pre-election tax bill when Congress isn't even in session, singling out individual U.S. cities to call them horrid, praising a politician who commited a violent crime, and helping cover up a murder.


and still not ONE con on this board will commit to supporting Kamala Harris or for that matter I guess ANY democrat over Putin or rump, same thing

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:13 pm 
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You cannot have a "Civil Discussion" with people who view you as less than human because of the Color of Your Skin or How You Choose To Worship Your Version of Your God.

These people do not to talk, they want to hurt, to torture and to kill.

There is no room for civility with these people.


Yes and I stopped trying literally decades ago, now.

It's really interesting that Motor City brought up the Freedom Riders. I could be very wrong about this, but I do believe that few people including MC here have actually integrated an all-white school or workplace as a person of African descent. As kids and young adults, the training you get in what you're almost certain to endure is one thing. But you do learn very quickly the limits of taking people's abuse so as to open doors for others who come after you.

What one might find is, taking said abuse also doesn't open doors any more than bashing back when bashed does. :ugeek: :)

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Rump is involved in the planning and cover up of a murder of a journalist

is telling his base to physically attack liberals



https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status ... 0211303027




and still not ONE con on this board will commit to supporting Kamala Harris or for that matter I guess ANY democrat over Putin or rump, same thing


Without fail, they'll throw their lot in with the professional racist.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Without fail, they'll throw their lot in with the professional racist.


Saw this on DU today, I knew it.

Quote:
Carl Bernstein today on CNN says his sources in the White House are telling him that if the mid-terms are close and the Democrats only take it back by 5 to 7 seats, trump is preparing for legal challenges in the courts, to sow confusion, he will declare a victory and say the election was illegitimate!

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:19 pm 
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This is why I can't take fingerwagging about "civility" very seriously.

I think the quickest way to through the baby out with the bath water, to dismantle our society, is lose our prevailing majority who maintain civility towards others on this MB as well and more importunately everywhere in life.

People become uncivil when they are treated in an uncivil fashion. Someone starts it but who, the who started it is often lost in the resulting tit for tat.


Last two sentences, pls. viewtopic.php?p=428133#p428133

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:14 pm 
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This is why I can't take fingerwagging about "civility" very seriously.



Last two sentences, pls. viewtopic.php?p=428133#p428133


So work to ensure that it's directed to the powerful as well as to the powerless. Don't disrupt what's holding barbarians at the gate.


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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:22 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:01 pm 
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So work to ensure that it's directed to the powerful as well as to the powerless. Don't disrupt what's holding barbarians at the gate.


Lol there aren't any barbarians at any gates.

Don't ever tell me how I must respond to the types you enable with capitulationist behavior, again.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Lol there aren't any barbarians at any gates.

Don't ever tell me how I must respond to the types you enable with capitulationist behavior, again.


That's pretty tough talk coming from someone who has no authority. It's a discussion board after all. If you can make personal attacks on other board members your whining about the posting habits of others seems a bit hypocritical to say the least,


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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:19 pm 
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had a guy drop a comment about how the dems drove up the big pharma prices.

i hadda laugh as i slowly stepped away from this cascading pile of poop.
i did NOT stand there and remind him dems dont control the congress, i left him standing
in his shadow with his own stupidity.

thats about the size of my civil discussions with white males lately.
they say something utterly stupid, i chuckle and slowly back away.

thanks fer stoppin by and have a good trip.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:21 pm 
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Are these the protectors of Western civilization?

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Then the barbarians are already inside the gates.

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-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:35 pm 
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Are these the protectors of Western civilization?

Image

Then the barbarians are already inside the gates.

We have the enemy and they are us.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:39 pm 
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That's pretty tough talk coming from someone who has no authority. It's a discussion board after all. If you can make personal attacks on other board members your whining about the posting habits of others seems a bit hypocritical to say the least,


If you've got troubles with how and what I post, report it to the site owners, and leave that petulant board warden act at the door.

You'll never have any authority over either the content or manner of what I write.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:43 pm 
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If you've got troubles with how and what I post, report it to the site owners, and leave that petulant board warden act at the door.

You'll never have any authority over either the content or manner of what I write.

You appear to be the one trying to act as a board warden. I think if you have troubles with what I post you can take your own advice. You don't control the door. I'll bring what I choose to bring. You can bark all the orders you want - I'll continue to ignore them.


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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Are these the protectors of Western civilization?

Image

Then the barbarians are already inside the gates.


I always find it interesting that it's precisely these uptown Klan conservative whites who always have their mouths fixed to complain about civillity.

They even made a whole news cycle of it a couple months ago. That was before giving yet another middle aged white woman the slut/whore treatment.

Proud Boys and their enablers literally are killers that boast about their lust for murdering liberals, immigrants, trans persons, and anyone else not like themselves. But White Citizens Councils always did demand civillity of those they intend to violently suppress.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:54 pm 
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You appear to be the one trying to act as a board warden. I think if you have troubles with what I post you can take your own advice. You don't control the door. I'll bring what I choose to bring. You can bark all the orders you want - I'll continue to ignore them.


How come it seems so often like the best you guys have got is I know you are but what am I?

Is it because your culture fosters mindless imitation and squelches individual creativity and independent thought?

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 Post subject: Re: Civil discussion
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:59 pm 
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The mind-dead things you say, JoeMemphis, are something of a comedy source for me, so I look forward to your posts. Why would I report them??

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