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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:33 pm 
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think we're gonna have to agree to disagree until mmm answers. but look at his post above it as well re:

"What the hell does this have to do with her? She doesn't have to explain a damn thing."

maybe i am missing this obvious but i don't think so.

Yeah, I saw the previous post. I have a problem with tone-deafness which AOC’s chief of staff displayed. One wonders if being “woke” is narrowly defined.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:50 am 
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Yeah, I saw the previous post. I have a problem with tone-deafness which AOC’s chief of staff displayed. One wonders if being “woke” is narrowly defined.


www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


WHAT DON'T YOU GIT?? THEY WOKE!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:08 am 
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https://jewishjournal.com/news/nation/3 ... tor-shirt/

As of July 11--I haven't found anything about this newer:

"Chakrabarti and Ocasio-Cortez’s office have not responded to the Journal’s request. Newsweek’s report notes that Chakrabarti would not provide them with an on-the-record comment on the matter."

By the way, apparently Chakrabarti worked for Bernie Sanders two years ago.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:40 am 
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Man! We will just bicker over the minutae of any fucking thing won't we?

Here's the bottom line for me regarding these four women. When one of them stands up and says they support the State of Israel's right to exist, then I might begin to trust that one do do the right stuff regarding Israel.

So far what I hear out of them is anti-Semitism. Particularly out of Ilhan Omar.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:46 pm 
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Minutae? Well, the Devil is in the detail, right?

But wtf? Is "I support Israel's right to exist" the new Oath of Office? I agree that that should be their opinion, but unless they say the opposite, I have no reason to accuse four progressive Congresswomen of being antisemitic. Oh, hell, write them a letter and ask!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:52 pm 
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Ocasio-Cortez chief of staff to leave her office
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4559 ... her-office

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's (D-N.Y.) chief of staff Saikat Chakrabarti is leaving the freshman's office after a series of controversies, according to a report in The Intercept.

[snip][end]

This article does not mention the controversy noted above, but focuses more on attacks he made on social media against Sharice Davids.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:56 pm 
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AOC's Chief of Staff leaves her office.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4559 ... her-office.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's (D-N.Y.) chief of staff Saikat Chakrabarti is leaving the freshman's office after a series of controversies, according to a report in The Intercept.

Saikat has decided to leave the office of Rep. Ocasio-Cortez to work with New Consensus to further develop plans for a Green New Deal,” Ocasio-Cortez communications director Corbin Trent told The Intercept in a statement.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:43 am 
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May be more to this than T shirts and ill advised Tweets.

As the source is the NY Post, get your grains of salt. However, I believe the investigation they are referring to exists.

Feds probing AOC’s chief of staff Saikat Chakrabarti after sudden resignation
https://nypost.com/2019/08/03/feds-prob ... signation/

The Feds are looking into possible campaign finance misdeeds by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff and lead rainmaker, who suddenly resigned Friday, federal sources told The Post.

The inquiry centers on two political action committees founded by Saikat Chakrabarti, the top aide who quit along with Ocasio-Cortez spokesman Corbin Trent,the sources said. Trent left to join the congresswoman’s 2020 re-election campaign.

[snip]

The two PACs being probed, Brand New Congress and Justice Democrats, were both set up by Chakrabarti to support progressive candidates across the country.

But they funneled more than $1 million in political donations into two private companies that Chakrabarti also incorporated and controlled, according to Federal Election Commission filings and a complaint filed in March with the regulatory agency.

[snip]

In 2016 and 2017, the PACs raised about $3.3 million, mostly from small donors. A third of the cash was transferred to two private companies whose names are similar to one of the PACs — Brand New Congress LLC and Brand New Campaign LLC — federal campaign filings show.

While PACs must follow stringent federal rules on disclosure of spending and fundraising, private companies are not subject to the same transparency.

The complaint filed by the National Legal and Policy Center, a government watchdog group based in Virginia, alleged that the LLCs appeared to have been set up to obscure those federal reporting requirements.

In March, when the FEC complaints were filed, a lawyer for the PACs, the LLCs and the Ocasio-Cortez campaign told the Washington Post that the arrangement “fully complied with the law and the highest ethical standards” and that Chakrabarti never profited from any of the political entities he formed.

[snip]

AOC did not show up at a Bronx event on her schedule Saturday. Her office would not comment on the staff departures, and Chakrabarti did not return several messages. Trent declined comment.

[snip][end]

I thought we often criticize Republicans for constantly covering for their own. (Except when it involves running for POTUS). We shouldn't do that.

BTW, I don't know if Chakrabarti is guilty of anything, but this should be investigated. Obviously, it may shed new light on reasons for his departure.

Also, for those who will note the NY Post is a questionable source, I agree, but there are other outlets reporting on this same investigation.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:48 pm 
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Minutae? Well, the Devil is in the detail, right?

But wtf? Is "I support Israel's right to exist" the new Oath of Office? I agree that that should be their opinion, but unless they say the opposite, I have no reason to accuse four progressive Congresswomen of being antisemitic. Oh, hell, write them a letter and ask!

Apparently there's a formal requirement to be Loyal to Israel. Marco Rubio wrote it up and got it passed. That's what Ilhan Omar was criticizing, not the false "Jewish Dual Loyalty" trope they said she was saying. Marco Rubio's "No one working in the government or contractors working for the government can criticize Israel" bill.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:43 pm 
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H.Res 246 was supported by Ro Khanna and Ayanna Pressley. Also J Street. BTW, it neither punishes those who advocate boycotts, (nor takes any stance on whether states can do so), nor bans any criticism.

As for what Ilhan Omar said, I happen to continue to recommend an excellent Vox article on it, and won't dilate on it further. I also agree with its conclusions.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... itism-jews

Please note I do not in any way shape or form support the ridiculous xenophobic and racist attacks on her by Trump.

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Last edited by ProfessorX on Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:09 pm 
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To many people what Ms. Omar said as an attack on Israel. It was in fact her, Ms. Omar describing how she has been accused of dual loyalty, but of course that got ignored.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:12 pm 
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I wish people would actually read the Vox article.

The reason I say that is it gives an exact transcript of her words - fairly situating them within her larger remarks and giving them context - but also noting why they were still problematic.

Also, BTW, I like that it notes the ways in which she herself has apologized for earlier remarks. She listens to her critics, and that is of course a good thing.

And again, I leave it at that.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:43 am 
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I wish people would actually read the Vox article.

The reason I say that is it gives an exact transcript of her words - fairly situating them within her larger remarks and giving them context - but also noting why they were still problematic.

Also, BTW, I like that it notes the ways in which she herself has apologized for earlier remarks. She listens to her critics, and that is of course a good thing.

And again, I leave it at that.

Read the article in the link. Thanks for posting it. The actions of a government are not arbitrarily condoned as acceptable by the people in a democracy. When governments do things that need to be criticized the government should be called on the carpet. Yes, there are many times when the people do support the actions of the government and should therefore be criticized. That does not mean that said criticism take the form of broad-brush stereotyping and bigotry. I know of no such people who are “all such-and-such” or “all like that” whatever “that” is.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:16 am 
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Most American Jews are pro-Israel. They also, at least 70% of them, are Democrats. Now when I say they are pro-Israel, that does not mean many of them like Netanyahu, the current Likud led government, or its policies. Or support the Occupation. I don't.

The results on this poll are interesting. Worth going through.
https://jstreet.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... 110818.pdf

The bottom line is, the Jewish views on Israel in this country are indeed not monolithic. And support for, or concern for a country, does not mean "allegiance" to its current government, or that government's policies. Anymore than anybody around here who says they love the U.S. means they agree with Donald Trump and its maladministration's policies.

There is no Jewish lobby. Anybody who speaks of one is full of shit. AIPAC is made up of a lot of Jews, but also Christian Zionists and defense contractors. J Street advocates something different, and then there's Jewish Voice for Peace (JvP). I know their position. At this point, mine is closer to J Street than either organization. (I went with my Dad to AIPAC meetings in 2004. A friend of his gave him tickets. I found the giant head of "W." beaming praises on the audience kind of creepy. I have never been back and don't support them. I know Viewer and I disagree on this, but I see it as I see it. AIPAC appears to mainly believe financial and other support for Israel from the American government should be uncritical, and I don't.)

JVP is pro BDS, J Street is not. BTW, just because I don't support many aspects of components of BDS does not mean I feel people must be "loyal" to the Israeli government, or to its policies, or refrain from criticizing it. Why on Earth would I want that, given that I criticize it all the time? I do favor a boycott of the settlements, I believe they are illegal. But preventing artists from playing in Israel, preventing Israeli academics from coming to conferences in this country. Why? What will that achieve?

Jews who care about Israel are no more "dually loyal" than people who care about (whether having lived there, or with relatives there, or whatever else) Canada, Mexico, Lebanon, Ireland, or Somalia. They do not put their concern for Israel ahead of their love for the country they live in.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:44 am 
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Most American Jews are pro-Israel. They also, at least 70% of them, are Democrats. Now when I say they are pro-Israel, that does not mean many of them like Netanyahu, the current Likud led government, or its policies. Or support the Occupation. I don't.

The results on this poll are interesting. Worth going through.
https://jstreet.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... 110818.pdf

The bottom line is, the Jewish views on Israel in this country are indeed not monolithic. And support for, or concern for a country, does not mean "allegiance" to its current government, or that government's policies. Anymore than anybody around here who says they love the U.S. means they agree with Donald Trump and its maladministration's policies.

There is no Jewish lobby. Anybody who speaks of one is full of shit. AIPAC is made up of a lot of Jews, but also Christian Zionists and defense contractors. J Street advocates something different, and then there's Jewish Voice for Peace (JvP). I know their position. At this point, mine is closer to J Street than either organization. (I went with my Dad to AIPAC meetings in 2004. A friend of his gave him tickets. I found the giant head of "W." beaming praises on the audience kind of creepy. I have never been back and don't support them. I know Viewer and I disagree on this, but I see it as I see it. AIPAC appears to mainly believe financial and other support for Israel from the American government should be uncritical, and I don't.)

JVP is pro BDS, J Street is not. BTW, just because I don't support many aspects of components of BDS does not mean I feel people must be "loyal" to the Israeli government, or to its policies, or refrain from criticizing it. Why on Earth would I want that, given that I criticize it all the time? I do favor a boycott of the settlements, I believe they are illegal. But preventing artists from playing in Israel, preventing Israeli academics from coming to conferences in this country. Why? What will that achieve?

Jews who care about Israel are no more "dually loyal" than people who care about (whether having lived there, or with relatives there, or whatever else) Canada, Mexico, Lebanon, Ireland, or Somalia. They do not put their concern for Israel ahead of their love for the country they live in.

There is no argument, imo, that can be made against what you have written.

Of interest is the concept of loyalty. That word carries many negative connotations and rightfully so. Too often it is used to defend actions that are, shall we say, less than ethical to downright illegal. Too often it is used as a broad-brush pejorative against one social group by another, many said other group wields power over the first.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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