Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

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Glennfs
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by Glennfs »

One thing I've noticed when going over your list is almost every person was a defensive player and coach.
In today's NFL it is an offensive oriented league. Now if you wanted to make the argument that marginal African American offensive players do not have long careers and that is a contributing factor to why more don't get into entry level coaching you might be correct.
As for those who do have careers of say 6 or more seasons because they are the better players they make more money.
Imo if you spent your time on the NFL being a better or a star player you've made plenty of money and been in the spotlight. Which probably is a major deterrent to having any desire to becoming an underpaid overworked guy who has to stay in the background and is not allowed to speak outside of the building.
Again regardless of race
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Glennfs
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by Glennfs »

ZoWie wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:29 pm Sounds almost as bad as location shooting.
Depends on craft services :)
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ZoWie
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by ZoWie »

That depends on below the line budget.
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Glennfs
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by Glennfs »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Ad ... 0Adolph%20(June%206%2C%201937,interim%20defensive%20coordinator%20in%201984.

Guy from my high school who was a very successful NFL coach.
Multiple moves over 40 years. I swear I don't know how these guys stay married.
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ZoWie
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by ZoWie »

Same way gaffers do... gotta have very understanding spouses.

At least frequent moving is never a problem... you're never home anyway.
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Glennfs
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by Glennfs »

ZoWie wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:35 pm Same way gaffers do... gotta have very understanding spouses.

At least frequent moving is never a problem... you're never home anyway.
WSOP dealers go from city to city like carneys get treated like dirt by the casino where the tournament is and work months at a time.
As far as that goes I spend 240 or more days a year on the road.
You have to be a special kind of stupid to enjoy any of these types of jobs.
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ZoWie
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by ZoWie »

For once we agree on something.
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gounion
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:20 pm Jim Caldwell 15 moves in 42 year career
So your argument still continues to say that blacks aren't willing to do what it takes to be a coach. Got it.
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:45 pm WSOP dealers go from city to city like carneys get treated like dirt by the casino where the tournament is and work months at a time.
As far as that goes I spend 240 or more days a year on the road.
You have to be a special kind of stupid to enjoy any of these types of jobs.
I spent an average of 300 days a year on the road for 17 years. Met my wife and married, and she knew how much time I spent on the road.

And it was a great job that I loved.

I'm quite sure coaching is the same type of thing. If you love it, it's great. But you say only white men have what it takes.
JoeMemphis
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by JoeMemphis »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:39 am Well as you know I wasn't in much of a mood after the Ohio State debacle. Then Sunday I went to Cherokee NC to play in a WSOP event.
So I've been a little busy living and enjoying life. Something devoid from many liberals ( not you) But many here seem to live in and embrace sorrow.

So let's talk about getting into coaching.

First not everyone who plays football is qualified or able to teach or coach football.

Second coaching football on a high level is a terrible job especially at entry level. It is 12 to 14 or more hour days 7 days a week. While paying very little. Also football has to come ahead of everything including family.
No going to birthdays or holidays or school events etc. Again it is a terrible lifestyle that does not appeal to many people.

Third and this goes hand in hand with two. While there are some exceptions but, if you were a star player or were financially successful chances are you aren't going to want to be an entry level coach which is little better than being a gopher.

Forth players with baggage deserved or not are not going to be considered to be coaching candidates.

So we have now eliminated most former players regardless of race. Leaving a very small pool to select from.
Let's continue

Fifth going from entry level to head coach takes 15 to 20 years. During that time you are going to have to pull up stakes and move 8 to 10 times. Plus there are only 32 jobs at any one time along with maybe 400ish assistant jobs.
So if you are a successful assistant coach but never get the nod to head coach you will spend 25 to 30 years as an assistant and move your family probably 20 times.

So at the end of the day it is a lousy job that does not appeal to many people. One that takes over a decade for most people to go from player to assistant to head coach. One that doesn't appeal to many people and the unwritten rules mentioned here eliminates most.

Lastly there are currently two African American coaches who have dotted all the eyes and crossed all the T's who should be top candidates after this season.

Eric Bienienmy and Byron Leftwich
Head Coaching jobs in the NFL are like any other executive level position. It’s all about relationships. People naturally tend to hire people they relate to personally. It’s human nature. At entry and middle level positions, it’s easier to put in controls that help to overcome that kind of bias. But at the upper levels, it often comes down to what the hiring executive or owner prefers. That requires a change in mindset on the part of the person doing the hiring. And that is a top down change.

I think over time it is getting better in professional sports. It wasn’t long ago that there were no non white coaches or assistant coaches. Now there are several. It is also true in minor league and college ranks. Not perfect. But definitely better.
gounion
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:16 pm Head Coaching jobs in the NFL are like any other executive level position. It’s all about relationships. People naturally tend to hire people they relate to personally. It’s human nature. At entry and middle level positions, it’s easier to put in controls that help to overcome that kind of bias. But at the upper levels, it often comes down to what the hiring executive or owner prefers. That requires a change in mindset on the part of the person doing the hiring. And that is a top down change.

I think over time it is getting better in professional sports. It wasn’t long ago that there were no non white coaches or assistant coaches. Now there are several. It is also true in minor league and college ranks. Not perfect. But definitely better.
Sorry, Joe, it's getting WORSE. There are FEWER black head coaches then when the Rozelle Rule was implemented.

The two coaches, the ones that Glenn mentioned, are extremely gifted. Chiefs head coach Andy Reid says that his assistant Eric Bieniemy is brilliant and needs to be a coach.Andy Reid is one of the best coaches in the game. Oh, he gets lots of interviews, but no jobs - for several years running.

But thanks for admitting that it's a good old boys club, and they are more interested in having a buddy in there than they are in winning.

And no, just having a few tokens isn't enough, Joe.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:13 amHow sad thar you are such a hateful and hate-filled bigot you go back 80 years to find injustice.
The injustice is in the OP.

How many days a week do you bathe in bleach?
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carmenjonze
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:25 pm Sorry, Joe, it's getting WORSE. There are FEWER black head coaches then when the Rozelle Rule was implemented.

The two coaches, the ones that Glenn mentioned, are extremely gifted. Chiefs head coach Andy Reid says that his assistant Eric Bieniemy is brilliant and needs to be a coach.Andy Reid is one of the best coaches in the game. Oh, he gets lots of interviews, but no jobs - for several years running.

But thanks for admitting that it's a good old boys club, and they are more interested in having a buddy in there than they are in winning.

And no, just having a few tokens isn't enough, Joe.
One Black person, anywhere but a plantation, is too many, for these WSs.

And your buddy thinks 9/10 of us Black voters are plantation slaves, anyway.
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gounion
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by gounion »

Joe admits that it IS bias, and that blacks simply aren't given a fair shake. Could be that the owner likes to talk about his prized athletes using the n-word, and he would be uncomfortable around a black coach, and is afraid of slipping up and letting his racist freak flag fly in front of him. Who knows.

But it's the truth, and while Glenn wants to pretend today's blacks are never discriminated against, THEY ARE.

So he dreams up this elaborate crap about how the job is just too hard and doesn't pay well, so no black man would want to do it.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:41 pm So he dreams up this elaborate crap about how the job is just too hard and doesn't pay well, so no black man would want to do it.
This is the same rationale used to segregate the US military.

White cons still believe this KKK propaganda about the one demographic specifically designated work and not get paid. :problem:

They'll even still tell you we're still on the plantation. :roll:
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JoeMemphis
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:25 pm Sorry, Joe, it's getting WORSE. There are FEWER black head coaches then when the Rozelle Rule was implemented.

The two coaches, the ones that Glenn mentioned, are extremely gifted. Chiefs head coach Andy Reid says that his assistant Eric Bieniemy is brilliant and needs to be a coach.Andy Reid is one of the best coaches in the game. Oh, he gets lots of interviews, but no jobs - for several years running.

But thanks for admitting that it's a good old boys club, and they are more interested in having a buddy in there than they are in winning.

And no, just having a few tokens isn't enough, Joe.
That isn’t what I said. But that’s typical of you.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by carmenjonze »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:35 pm That isn’t what I said.
That's exactly what you said.

You guys are so deliberately dense you don't even realize that race-based, anti-Black elitism is the foundation of your culture, and it's still pervasive in the larger culture as ever.

That's because you guys set it in stone/law/policy for centuries and backed it up with violent atrocities.

And not just against us, either. :problem:
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gounion
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:35 pm That isn’t what I said. But that’s typical of you.
No, Joe, it IS what you said. Owners don't look at the qualifications, and they don't care that an Eric Bieniemy would probably do a far better job and give their team a better chance to win, they want a buddy. That's why the Colts picked a former football player and broadcaster with absolutely ZERO experience in coaching at ANY level. And yesterday, the Colts paid the price:
Indianapolis Colts interim head coach Jeff Saturday went through some growing pains during Monday night’s loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

One of the topics of discussion pertained to Saturday’s refusal to use one of their three timeouts on a sequence of plays that burned roughly 30 seconds off the clock when they had less than a minute remaining.

After the game, Saturday told the media he didn’t think time was of the essence. He changed his tune Tuesday, acknowledging that he wish he would have used
a timeout before it was essentially too late.

“I wish I had that third down back. In all honesty, I wish I would’ve used a timeout. Just looking at it on film – I looked at it last night again, looked at it this morning again,” Saturday said. “From a time perspective, I felt good but you could tell we were in disarray. I just didn’t have a great feel.”
You say it's getting better - it's not. Here's the story of Tony Dungy, the ONLY black coach in the Pro Football Hall of Fame:
Dungy had become just the fifth African-American coach in the NFL in 1996 at Tampa Bay, where he was a one-man crusade against the latent racism that led to the 2003 Rooney Rule. In 2015 there were six African-American coaches in the NFL, and Dungy was responsible for half of them; at Tampa Bay he looked to the college ranks for Lovie Smith (Ohio State), Jim Caldwell (Wake Forest) and Mike Tomlin (Cincinnati) as assistants.

Dungy, considered one of the league’s premier defensive gurus as an assistant in the 1990s, was passed over for head coaching positions three times before the Bucs, the biggest laughingstock in the league, gave him a chance. Dungy reached the playoffs four times in six seasons there, and his success launched the careers of Smith, Tomlin and Caldwell. The situation for minority coaches got better.

Dungy retired in 2008.

And the situation has gotten worse.

* * *

On the surface the NFL has turned around its decades-long practice of replacing one white coach with another. In September 2015, the University of Central Florida’s Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport credited the NFL with “its sixth consecutive ‘A’ for racial hiring practices.”

Nothing to see here, you might say. But only if you don’t look beyond the surface.

In January, researchers at Iowa State, Georgetown, Emory and George Washington turned over the rock for a closer look. In July, ESPN did the same thing. Both found something ugly happening in the NFL.

The college researchers found that a white position coach was more than twice as likely to be promoted to coordinator as a black position coach.

ESPN followed that trail to make this startling discovery two weeks ago: Of the NFL’s 85 offensive coordinators, quarterbacks coaches and offensive quality control coaches, 80 are white.

Guess which assistants are most likely to become head coaches? Those at the top of the food chain on offense. All seven of the NFL’s new coaches in 2016 come from such a background, including Cleveland’s Hue Jackson, the only black head coach hired this past offseason.

When he was in the game, Tony Dungy was a one-man wrecking ball against the NFL’s wall of white dominance. Even now, eight years after his retirement, he and his assistants comprise nine of the last 21 minority (42.9 percent) hires.

But Dungy has been out of the league since 2008. His influence has receded. And you see where the NFL is.

Of the 21 most recent first-time NFL head coaches, 20 are white. Apparently owners don't know, maybe don't even care, that minority coaches are more successful than white ones. That's a statistical fact. More on that in a minute.
So no, it's NOT improving. But at least you admit where the problem lies.
JoeMemphis
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:51 pm No, Joe, it IS what you said. Owners don't look at the qualifications, and they don't care that an Eric Bieniemy would probably do a far better job and give their team a better chance to win, they want a buddy. That's why the Colts picked a former football player and broadcaster with absolutely ZERO experience in coaching at ANY level. And yesterday, the Colts paid the price:



You say it's getting better - it's not. Here's the story of Tony Dungy, the ONLY black coach in the Pro Football Hall of Fame:



So no, it's NOT improving. But at least you admit where the problem lies.
No it’s not what I said. I did say it’s about relationships. And often times it is when it comes to upper management. Further the practice isn’t exclusive to a particular race, sex or gender identification.

But I’m not going to argue the point with you. It’s pointless. You have already demonstrated your inability to speak or think for yourself so a conversation with you is a waste of time.
gounion
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:27 pm No it’s not what I said. I did say it’s about relationships. And often times it is when it comes to upper management. Further the practice isn’t exclusive to a particular race, sex or gender identification.

But I’m not going to argue the point with you. It’s pointless. You have already demonstrated your inability to speak or think for yourself so a conversation with you is a waste of time.
YOU said it’s a buddy system, which it is. Why else would the Colts hire a guy with zero coaching experience to lead an NFL franchise?

White owners white coaches. Oh, but it has NOTHING to do with race. And things are getting better, eh?

It is demonstrably false that the situation is improving. It’s getting WORSE. You’re a numbers guy. Do the numbers.

So you did make my point.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by carmenjonze »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:27 pmFurther the practice isn’t exclusive to a particular race, sex or gender identification.
There is only ONE demographic that made this behavior the norm, and not just in this industry, but legally and as a matter of public policy.

Give ya' three guesses which one.

That's why these problems remain, and why this thread exists; people like you. These issues did not simply appear out of the sky, though you probably would not know that since this cultural behavior is the air you breathe.
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Bludogdem
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by Bludogdem »

Well, Jeff Saturday is an interim head coach. Which means temporary. And given that the biggest issue with the Colts is poor offensive line play and Saturday is a former outstanding offensive lineman that Irsay has a longstanding relationship with it actually seems like reasonable move. The Colts obviously aren’t playoff bound. Ca

At the end of the season the Colts will interview for the full time - not interim - Head coach position.

Top candidates are already under contract and teams don’t interview mid season.
gounion
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:55 pm Well, Jeff Saturday is an interim head coach. Which means temporary. And given that the biggest issue with the Colts is poor offensive line play and Saturday is a former outstanding offensive lineman that Irsay has a longstanding relationship with it actually seems like reasonable move. The Colts obviously aren’t playoff bound.

At the end of the season the Colts will interview for the full time - not interim - Head coach position.
And hire a white guy.

They have TWO assistants with head coaching experience. They could do the professional thing, but it’s all about the buddy system.

That’s why we don’t have hardly any black head coaches. It’s not because blacks are too lazy to work hard.

Any of you conservatives want to back up Glenn’s theory?
Bludogdem
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:04 pm And hire a white guy.

They have TWO assistants with head coaching experience. They could do the professional thing, but it’s all about the buddy system.

That’s why we don’t have hardly any black head coaches. It’s not because blacks are too lazy to work hard.

Any of you conservatives want to back up Glenn’s theory?
Two former head coaches that aren’t exactly getting the job done.

Plus Tony Dungy, who was hired as a head coach by Irsay, is ok with this.

“ But Dungy, who has been outspoken on the N.F.L.’s lack of diversity, said in an interview that he thinks interim positions should not face such scrutiny. Owners who fire coaches midseason have a finite amount of time to find a replacement before their team’s next game, and they normally have options for an interim coach already in mind before the dismissal. Dungy, who coached Saturday with the Colts, said he would feel different about Irsay’s choice if it had happened after the season.

“If he did an exhaustive search at the end of the year with every candidate in the National Football League that he could choose from, then it’s a different story,” said Dungy, who last coached in 2008 and is now an analyst for NBC Sports. “Then you might have some reason to say, ‘Well, wait a minute.’ But in this situation, I don’t think so.”

It’s logical.
gounion
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Re: Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and race

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:20 pm Two former head coaches that aren’t exactly getting the job done.

Plus Tony Dungy, who was hired as a head coach by Irsay, is ok with this.

“ But Dungy, who has been outspoken on the N.F.L.’s lack of diversity, said in an interview that he thinks interim positions should not face such scrutiny. Owners who fire coaches midseason have a finite amount of time to find a replacement before their team’s next game, and they normally have options for an interim coach already in mind before the dismissal. Dungy, who coached Saturday with the Colts, said he would feel different about Irsay’s choice if it had happened after the season.

“If he did an exhaustive search at the end of the year with every candidate in the National Football League that he could choose from, then it’s a different story,” said Dungy, who last coached in 2008 and is now an analyst for NBC Sports. “Then you might have some reason to say, ‘Well, wait a minute.’ But in this situation, I don’t think so.”

It’s logical.
This guy isn't getting it done either. It's a shit show.

But don't worry, they'll be hiring another white guy next year. Just like always.

So, do YOU think it's because the white coaches are superior? Yes or no?
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