Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by gounion »

Let's be clear: Biden sent in Marty Walsh, Secretary of Labor, whom I would say is objectively one of the most pro-labor Secretaries of Labor in history, to mediate the negotiations. The Administration has no power over either side, and can only use the status of the Presidency to persuade. Mediation is a unique animal that has to be seen to be believed. I've been good friends with some of the folks at the National Mediation and Conciliation Services, a government agency, and been at the table in several mediations.

So Walsh was able to come to a deal both sides could live with, and it took President Biden making an appearance, I believe by screen, to seal the deal. I believe Biden and Walsh was able to push the companies much farther than they ever planned to go.

The negotiators unanimously recommended the deal, and the membership votes were close. You can't win a strike with only half the workers wanting to strike.

So what I'm saying is that, while I agree that 1 day isn't enough, that I don't see a path to winning a strike here. While the companies are at the table, there's no pressure on them to change their stance. They have all the leverage. That's just the reality as I see it.

I would LOVE to see legislation to give the workers seven sick days a year, but we all know that the GOP will filibuster. But it's good to get them all on the record.
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ProfX
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by ProfX »

The Republican solution, just like Raygun did with the air traffic controllers, would just be to fire them all.

I like the Biden approach a lot better.
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by gounion »

ProfX wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:19 am The Republican solution, just like Raygun did with the air traffic controllers, would just be to fire them all.

I like the Biden approach a lot better.
Yup, fire them all and dissolve the union.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:03 am Let's be clear: Biden sent in Marty Walsh, Secretary of Labor, whom I would say is objectively one of the most pro-labor Secretaries of Labor in history, to mediate the negotiations. The Administration has no power over either side, and can only use the status of the Presidency to persuade. Mediation is a unique animal that has to be seen to be believed. I've been good friends with some of the folks at the National Mediation and Conciliation Services, a government agency, and been at the table in several mediations.

So Walsh was able to come to a deal both sides could live with, and it took President Biden making an appearance, I believe by screen, to seal the deal. I believe Biden and Walsh was able to push the companies much farther than they ever planned to go.

The negotiators unanimously recommended the deal, and the membership votes were close. You can't win a strike with only half the workers wanting to strike.

So what I'm saying is that, while I agree that 1 day isn't enough, that I don't see a path to winning a strike here. While the companies are at the table, there's no pressure on them to change their stance. They have all the leverage. That's just the reality as I see it.

I would LOVE to see legislation to give the workers seven sick days a year, but we all know that the GOP will filibuster. But it's good to get them all on the record.
Do you think there is a chance of reforming railroad labor law after this?
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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carmenjonze wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:08 pm Do you think there is a chance of reforming railroad labor law after this?
If it requires passage of legislation, then no, there's no way, with the GOP soon holding the House majority and enough Senators to filibuster anything. The only reform they'll be interested in is reform that will hurt workers and unions.
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Number6
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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Glennfs wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:49 pm https://raillaborfacts.org/news/bargain ... mmediately.

You would think they would be happy with $160,000 a year. ( includes benefits)
They're not making $160,000 a year as you claim your link says. Here's what your link actually said: "When health care, retirement, and other benefits are considered, the value of rail employees’ total compensation package, which already ranks among the highest in the nation, would average about $160,000 per year."

It's the total compensation package that's worth $160,00 and that's if everything in the package is used. You're implying their total salary is $160,000 when it's not. They're not being taxed on their total compensation package, only on their wages/salaries.

Nice try at lying or it's just that you can't comprehend your own links which doesn't surprise anyone.
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:19 pm They're not making $160,000 a year as you claim your link says. Here's what your link actually said: "When health care, retirement, and other benefits are considered, the value of rail employees’ total compensation package, which already ranks among the highest in the nation, would average about $160,000 per year."

It's the total compensation package that's worth $160,00 and that's if everything in the package is used. You're implying their total salary is $160,000 when it's not. They're not being taxed on their total compensation package, only on their wages/salaries.

Nice try at lying or it's just that you can't comprehend your own links which doesn't surprise anyone.
When I hear a number like that I assume it’s the whole package unless stated otherwise. But to your point, 160k isn’t chicken feed and the fact that some of the package isn’t taxed is also a plus. Is it fair? Sounds pretty good but then who do you compare these folks to as far as comparable wages. They are driving some heavy duty equipment.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:52 pm They are driving some heavy duty equipment.
:roll: they get one day of sick leave.

Imagine the fatcat CEOs you champion, who make $160K a month for sitting around, playing golf and swapping wives, getting one sick day a year. :problem:
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Libertas
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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carmenjonze wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:59 pm :roll: they get one day of sick leave.

Imagine the fatcat CEOs you champion, who make $160K a month for sitting around, playing golf and swapping wives, getting one sick day a year. :problem:
A month , try a week or a day in some cases.

But yes, the attitude half of this country has toward WORKING people is amazing. But what do we expect from people who enslaved African Americans and Chinese people and others to build America, they are who built America of course.

Headline says to ADD seven days sick leave, they have none now?
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by gounion »

House PASSED the bill, INCLUDING an amendment to give all railroad workers sever days of sick leave.

Can they run the amendment through the Senate too? I dunno, but at least they are trying. Good for them.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:30 pm House PASSED the bill, INCLUDING an amendment to give all railroad workers sever days of sick leave.
Saw that!
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by gounion »

carmenjonze wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:33 pmSaw that!
Well, win or lose, they are trying.
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Number6
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:52 pm When I hear a number like that I assume it’s the whole package unless stated otherwise. But to your point, 160k isn’t chicken feed and the fact that some of the package isn’t taxed is also a plus. Is it fair? Sounds pretty good but then who do you compare these folks to as far as comparable wages. They are driving some heavy duty equipment.
Yes, they are driving some heavy equipment and it takes skill and experience to do it successfully.

The median salary of a train engineer is around $95,000, according to salary.com, which puts them above the national average of $71,000.
https://www.salary.com/research/salary/ ... eer-salary
https://www.census.gov/library/publicat ... 0-276.html

If you go by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median salary of a locomotive engineer and operators is $71K - $73K which would put them within the U.S. average median salary.
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#53-0000
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:39 pm Yes, they are driving some heavy equipment and it takes skill and experience to do it successfully.

The median salary of a train engineer is around $95,000, according to salary.com, which puts them above the national average of $71,000.
https://www.salary.com/research/salary/ ... eer-salary
https://www.census.gov/library/publicat ... 0-276.html

If you go by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median salary of a locomotive engineer and operators is $71K - $73K which would put them within the U.S. average median salary.
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#53-0000
So if the 160k is accurate it’s well above the median. Sounds like a good deal. As far as sick days, we don’t have sick days either. We have personal days. You can take them for any reason. I have a few friends who are firemen. They can accumulate sick days. They use em just like extra vacation. I don’t know that I would kill a deal where the average pay is this far above the median over sick days but that’s just me. I never cared about sick days. I was more focused on the base.
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Number6
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:43 pm So if the 160k is accurate it’s well above the median. Sounds like a good deal. As far as sick days, we don’t have sick days either. We have personal days. You can take them for any reason. I have a few friends who are firemen. They can accumulate sick days. They use em just like extra vacation. I don’t know that I would kill a deal where the average pay is this far above the median over sick days but that’s just me. I never cared about sick days. I was more focused on the base.
So the question is is the $160,000 figure accurate or is the Bureau of Labor Statistics' figure accurate? I'd go with the BLS's figure.
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:43 pm So if the 160k is accurate it’s well above the median. Sounds like a good deal. As far as sick days, we don’t have sick days either. We have personal days. You can take them for any reason. I have a few friends who are firemen. They can accumulate sick days. They use em just like extra vacation. I don’t know that I would kill a deal where the average pay is this far above the median over sick days but that’s just me. I never cared about sick days. I was more focused on the base.
You likely usually worked for salaries, where you get paid whether you’re sick or not.

But companies use draconian sick leave policies as good reason to get to fire older, better-paid workers, and bring in newer workers at the bottom of the wage scale. Just because you’re older and not as healthy as you were when you were young is not a reasonable excuse to get fired.
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:43 pm So if the 160k is accurate it’s well above the median. Sounds like a good deal. As far as sick days, we don’t have sick days either. We have personal days. You can take them for any reason. I have a few friends who are firemen. They can accumulate sick days. They use em just like extra vacation. I don’t know that I would kill a deal where the average pay is this far above the median over sick days but that’s just me. I never cared about sick days. I was more focused on the base.
You don’t work in the railroad industry. Please learn something about the world you live in.

Solipsistic, self-centered cons.
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Libertas
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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carmenjonze wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:57 pm You don’t work in the railroad industry. Please learn something about the world you live in.

Solipsistic, self-centered cons.
NEVER when there is a billionaire vs worker conversation will board con take the side of worker.

If this argument didnt work, they would say "IDK, I wouldnt kill a deal in an industry where robots could easily replace me."
I sigh in your general direction.
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Number6
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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gounion wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:50 pm You likely usually worked for salaries, where you get paid whether you’re sick or not.

But companies use draconian sick leave policies as good reason to get to fire older, better-paid workers, and bring in newer workers at the bottom of the wage scale. Just because you’re older and not as healthy as you were when you were young is not a reasonable excuse to get fired.
Most people have the opportunity to take sick leave with pay. I worked at K-Mart in the early 70s and even back then we had X-number of sick days. Some occupations may not have sick days but company policy allows supervisors and managers to use their judgement in giving them paid "time-off." The military doesn't have sick days in enlistment contracts but it allows supervisors leeway in allowing their people to stay home when their sick or not feeling well.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by carmenjonze »

These cons, being people driven by greed, think it’s always about munny, and how much people can be exploited for munny.

If it were up to them, we’d all be working for free.
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Motor City
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by Motor City »

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1 ... 0699489280
At a time of record profits in the rail industry, it’s unacceptable that rail workers have ZERO guaranteed paid sick days. It’s my intention to block consideration of the rail legislation until a roll call vote occurs on guaranteeing 7 paid sick days to rail workers in America.
https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/statu ... 3399289857
You ready for a really radical idea? Firing a worker because they’re sick and can’t come to work. That’s radical. What’s not radical is guaranteeing 7 paid sick days to all rail workers in America. Let’s get it done.
https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1 ... 8191532032
Let me congratulate the 221 Members in the House for taking on the greed of the rail industry and voting to guarantee 7 paid sick days to every rail union worker in America. It is absolutely unacceptable that rail workers have ZERO paid sick days. The Senate must do the same.
House passes legislation to avert 'catastrophic' rail strike, provide rail workers paid sick leave
The House overwhelmingly passed legislation Wednesday afternoon that would help avert a freight rail strike the White House fears could cripple the U.S. economy – 30 years after Congress last intervened in a looming rail shutdown.

Lawmakers also passed a related measure that would provide seven days of additional paid sick leave to rail workers.

The bipartisan vote to avert the strike was 290-137 while the paid sick leave amendment passed 221-207 almost entirely along party lines. Both measures now head to the Senate.

After the vote, President Joe Biden thanked House Democratic and Republican lawmakers for "taking urgent action" and prodded the Senate to act fast.

"Without action this week, disruptions to our auto supply chains, our ability to move food to tables, and our ability to remove hazardous waste from gasoline refineries will begin," Biden said in a statement issued by the White House. "The Senate must move quickly and send a bill to my desk for my signature immediately."....
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Glennfs
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:04 pm Most people have the opportunity to take sick leave with pay. I worked at K-Mart in the early 70s and even back then we had X-number of sick days. Some occupations may not have sick days but company policy allows supervisors and managers to use their judgement in giving them paid "time-off." The military doesn't have sick days in enlistment contracts but it allows supervisors leeway in allowing their people to stay home when their sick or not feeling well.
That is odd I worked in many stores like Kmart and never heard of any with paid sick leave.

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Kmart/faq/wh ... vj652ubar6

No paid sick leave for Kmart employees
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JoeMemphis

Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by JoeMemphis »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:01 am That is odd I worked in many stores like Kmart and never heard of any with paid sick leave.

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Kmart/faq/wh ... vj652ubar6

No paid sick leave for Kmart employees
Where did the 160K number come from?
gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:01 am That is odd I worked in many stores like Kmart and never heard of any with paid sick leave.

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Kmart/faq/wh ... vj652ubar6

No paid sick leave for Kmart employees
Not now. You calling Six a liar?
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