Ukraine

[Libertas]

Rather than seeking an end to the war United States seeking a way to aid and prolong war on Mothers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C31ecWsGJHg

Every Soldier is a Mother’s Son

How are we doing that?

[Motor City]

How are we doing that?

By not working seeking an end to the war and supplying weapons endlessly to keep it going. War has particularly brutal grudge against motherhood and mothers in particular.

https://twitter.com/BRepairers/status/1 ... 8555303936

WATCH NOW: No War: A Moral Call for a Christmas Truce | Bishop William J. Barber, II

How many would trade places with Ukraine and host the war in their own cities and want to fight endlessly as everyone and everything around them is destroyed. Voluntary devastation without end most wouldnt choose for themselves, why choose it for others?

[Glennfs]

By not working seeking an end to the war and supplying weapons endlessly to keep it going. War has particularly brutal grudge against motherhood and mothers in particular.

https://twitter.com/BRepairers/status/1 ... 8555303936



How many would trade places with Ukraine and host the war in their own cities and want to fight endlessly as everyone and everything around them is destroyed. Voluntary devastation without end most wouldnt choose for themselves, why choose it for others?

That is an interesting take and for those of us who grew up in the Vietnam Era might not want to believe it but have to admit it might be true

[gounion]

That is an interesting take and for those of us who grew up in the Vietnam Era might not want to believe it but have to admit it might be true

No, it's not. Here's the main difference: In Vietnam, they didn't really WANT to fight for their country. We went in and fought FOR them. And without us, the country fell immediately.

In the Ukraine, the people ARE fighting for their country, and doing a great job of it. They aren't asking for troops to come in and save them. They just need weapons to fight.

And just remember, if Trump were still President, we WOULD have troops on the ground - troops helping Putin take the Ukraine. That's why your party is so much against us helping Ukraine, because they love Putin.

[Glennfs]

No, it's not. Here's the main difference: In Vietnam, they didn't really WANT to fight for their country. We went in and fought FOR them. And without us, the country fell immediately.

In the Ukraine, the people ARE fighting for their country, and doing a great job of it. They aren't asking for troops to come in and save them. They just need weapons to fight.

And just remember, if Trump were still President, we WOULD have troops on the ground - troops helping Putin take the Ukraine. That's why your party is so much against us helping Ukraine, because they love Putin.

That is also a good point. But, I believe the op point is that the USA might be perpetuating the war for economic gains.
Which is what LBJ did in Vietnam.

[gounion]

That is also a good point. But, I believe the op point is that the USA might be perpetuating the war for economic gains.
Which is what LBJ did in Vietnam.

You know, no matter WHAT Biden does, you'll attack him. I am for supporting the people of the Ukraine against the KGB goon, Vladimir Putin.

Why is it your side loves him so much? He's a communist butcher, but you support him.

[Glennfs]

You know, no matter WHAT Biden does, you'll attack him. I am for supporting the people of the Ukraine against the KGB goon, Vladimir Putin.

Why is it your side loves him so much? He's a communist butcher, but you support him.

So why aren't you directing your outrage at motor city

[gounion]

So why aren't you directing your outrage at motor city

He doesn't support Putin like your side does.

[Glennfs]

He doesn't support Putin like your side does.

No he is the liberal board member who brought uo the topic and you don't have the stones to direct your opinions directly at him

[gounion]

No he is the liberal board member who brought uo the topic and you don't have the stones to direct your opinions directly at him

You don't have the stones to even say anything bad about TX Gov. Abbott, who, on Christmas Eve, sent children in t-shirts to be dumped off in front of VP Harris' home in 15-degree weather.

So I don't think you have standing to judge MY stones.

[Drak]

By not working seeking an end to the war and supplying weapons endlessly to keep it going. War has particularly brutal grudge against motherhood and mothers in particular.

https://twitter.com/BRepairers/status/1 ... 8555303936



How many would trade places with Ukraine and host the war in their own cities and want to fight endlessly as everyone and everything around them is destroyed. Voluntary devastation without end most wouldnt choose for themselves, why choose it for others?

The goal of supplying weapons isn’t to keep it going. It’s to help Ukraine defend itself from an evil nation. This isn’t warmongering by the allies.

It’s up to Russia here. They are the invaders. They are the ones slaughtering innocent women and children and committing mass genocide. Russia doesn’t get to invade, commit war crimes and vile atrocities, get its ass kicked then get rewarded with prizes. They need to leave.

[Glennfs]

You don't have the stones to even say anything bad about TX Gov. Abbott, who, on Christmas Eve, sent children in t-shirts to be dumped off in front of VP Harris' home in 15-degree weather.

So I don't think you have standing to judge MY stones.

Hey you haven't said a word to the person who brought uo the subject. But have shown outrage at me for mildly supporting what he said as something that might be true.
Things that make you say hmmmm

[gounion]

So, Glenn, tell us - how would YOU handle the Ukraine?

[bradman]

Merry X-mas...........

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/25/europe/u ... index.html
Kyiv, Ukraine
CNN
—

President Volodymyr Zelensky called on Ukrainians to have “patience and faith” in a defiant Christmas address after a deadly wave of Russian strikes pounded the southern city of Kherson.

Ten months into Russia’s war on Ukraine, Zelensky spoke of endurance and pushing through to the end, while acknowledging that “freedom comes at a high price.”

He urged the nation to stand firm in the face of a grim winter of energy blackouts, the absence of loved ones and the ever-present threat of Russian attacks.

Zelensky’s message came after Ukrainian officials said Russia had launched deadly rocket strikes into downtown Kherson on Christmas Eve, killing at least 10 people and injuring dozens. Zelensky described those attacks as “killing for the sake of intimidation and pleasure.”

[bradman]

Hey you haven't said a word to the person who brought uo the subject. But have shown outrage at me for mildly supporting what he said as something that might be true.
Things that make you say hmmmm

Leave it to you to fuck up a thread that's been pretty much been devoid of flame war.

Hmmm...is right. But then it doesn't surprise me. Some recognize the difference between a pacifist and an opportunist. The first i give my heart and respect to. The second, meh, i'm still somewhat in the x-mas spirit.

[bradman]

It's called giving aid and comfort to the enemy.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aBtHnrNUFY

[ZoWie]

No, it's not. Here's the main difference: In Vietnam, they didn't really WANT to fight for their country. We went in and fought FOR them. And without us, the country fell immediately.

In the Ukraine, the people ARE fighting for their country, and doing a great job of it. They aren't asking for troops to come in and save them. They just need weapons to fight.

This is pretty much the case. There was a lot of talk about the need to win over Vietnamese hearts and minds. The war was fought for abstract geopolitical reasons, and the enemy was largely composed of the same people that we were (in our propaganda) there to "liberate." They'd had a belly full of being colonials slaving in rubber plantations for transnational corporations and wanted to try something else.

Meanwhile the US military of the era was under the spell of superior firepower. They thought they could kill the hostile people and the rest would wave our flag and welcome us as liberators, as we handed their country back to global conglomerates. We never did get it why they didn't seem to be into that.

Our military is much smarter than that now. Now the first thing that happens in a war is that all the means of communication stop working except the ones we want to have work. The guns and bombs thing follows the information thing.

What's interesting, though, is that the supposed "worst" happened in Vietnam, and now the country is a popular tourist attraction. I know people who've been there. As long as you're a rich tourist and keep those American dollars coming, you'll have a great time. They'll show you the remaining holes in the ground, and the pieces of American bombers, and call it history. You'll take pictures. Say, whatever happened to that brutal yoke of Communism?

You can't compare it with Ukraine. Ukranian hearts and minds don't need to be won over. A few people right on the border do want to be part of Russia. So let 'em. Who needs Donbass anyway? Let 'em become an oblast and work under shitty conditions for Putin's oligarchs to make the payments on their yachts.

The rest of the country wants to be independent, and they are willing to die for it, but they need hardware. They're fighting one of the world's major superpowers. It's a problem, because we don't know how crazy Putin is. Would he really go nuclear? Does he really have ambitions to restore the Iron Curtain across Europe? Who knows? Meanwhile it's causing inflation but no one wants to admit that. Much easier to blame the libs. As usual.

[Libertas]

Cons are so bad that they will throw our country under the bus, to support putin or whoever, if it also opposes what Joe Biden is doing, or the Dems.

Calling them traitors is no longer the outrage it was when I did it 5 yrs ago, it is now accepted to do so because it is true.

[Motor City]

It's called giving aid and comfort to the enemy.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aBtHnrNUFY

Wars enemy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36fY2y4Zuks

[Number6]

Rather than seeking an end to the war United States seeking a way to aid and prolong war on Mothers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C31ecWsGJHg

Every Soldier is a Mother’s Son

These songs might be more impactful.

Where Have All the Flowers Gone - The Kingston Trio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkTXcwc3zvk

One Tin Soldier - Theme from Billy Jack
https://www.google.com/search?q=One+Tin ... jGnvst6AmA

Universal Soldier - Glen Campbell
https://www.google.com/search?q=univers ... NzGPbq6hKw

[bradman]

Wars enemy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36fY2y4Zuks

Luv ya man.

You're not the only one.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNnFFKv_NyI

i hope someday to join you.............

[Number6]

That is also a good point. But, I believe the op point is that the USA might be perpetuating the war for economic gains.
Which is what LBJ did in Vietnam.

War has an extremely limited economic gain and that gain doesn't trickle down to the average person. Remember, every bomb exploded, every bullet fired, every missile fired, every tank destroyed, every plane destroyed, every vehicle destroyed, etc.. means a loss of a resource that needs to be replaced. Replacing those items costs the nation money reducing/eliminating services to its citizens.

[Number6]

So, Glenn, tell us - how would YOU handle the Ukraine?

He can't and won't because he's too busy tanning his balls with Sean Hannity.

[gounion]

He can't and won't because he's too busy tanning his balls with Sean Hannity.

Neither he nor JoeMemphis can EVER say what THEY would do if they were in charge. They just pretend.

The GOP has NO answers at ALL to the problems our nation faces. All they want to do is complain about what the Dems do.

[ZoWie]

War has an extremely limited economic gain and that gain doesn't trickle down to the average person. Remember, every bomb exploded, every bullet fired, every missile fired, every tank destroyed, every plane destroyed, every vehicle destroyed, etc.. means a loss of a resource that needs to be replaced. Replacing those items costs the nation money reducing/eliminating services to its citizens.

War is also a convenient means of perpetuating the erroneous political theory usually simplified by the facile stock phrase, "A rising tide lifts all boats." As often as not, this rising tide is massive military spending, whether or not the military really wants or needs the ever more expensive hardware which doesn't really do the job. Go south of LAX and see all the huge buildings that Ronnie Ray Gun's pretty much worthless Star Wars campaign built and filled with newly hired engineers, analysts, and programmers. Now they're trying to find other uses for the buildings, and for the people who once worked in them. One is now part of the LAPD academy. Another one is where the LA Times moved their editorial offices. They couldn't resist the bargain basement costs at a time when nobody advertises in the papers anymore.

Nobody really made out as much as real estate developers, and they can make out even without blowing a generation's wealth on a military theory that violates the laws of physics. In LA, they are the true power structure.

In the real world, a rising tide sinks leaky boats no one bothered to fix.