Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

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JoeMemphis

Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:23 am What a load of bullshit. You show how big a lie your attack on Biden is. You voted for Bush - twice - when he was a dumpster fire of a President. He was a disaster and it took a Democrat - Barack Obama - to fix the disaster that Bush gave him.
Opinions will vary. You are welcome to yours.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:33 pm Opinions will vary. You are welcome to yours.
You can never understand the difference between opinion and fact.
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Drak
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by Drak »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:33 pm Opinions will vary. You are welcome to yours.
That's not on opinion. It's a fact.

That fact that you present everything as an opinion shows how ideologically impaired you are. You simply won't accept facts that don't jive with what you want to believe.

It's also why you constantly make up both sides bullshit and false equivalencies.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by bradman »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:17 am I didn’t absolve him. Show it. Many administrations include Bush. A perfect storm isn’t absolution. It was a failure of government and a failure of leadership that is shared by multiple administrations and the executive as well as legislative branch. I remember numerous warnings in the media surrounding derivative investments which including sub prime loans. And nothing was done. Why? No one wanted to stop that gravy train because at the time everyone was getting what they wanted. Developers, real estate agents, investors, and low income people who were buying housss and getting loans they could not afford. Nobody in government was going to put a stop to that although that was precisely what was needed. It lasted until it blew up in everyone’s face.

So yeah, it was a massive failure of government. Last I checked, POTUS is part of government. Just in case you aren’t keeping up with current events.
[bold] It's yet another flaw in our Capitalist system. From the beginning our economy has always been cycles of hot and cold. Highs and lows. Boom and bust. Keynes came up with the fix but his idea of spending money on our betterment during hard times (public works)has been so butchered that he more than likely spun right out of his grave by now.

i remember refinancing during that. We wanted the better interest some 10 grand for some solid home improvements. Then came the hard sell. i could get upwards of 80 thou if we wanted. Easy enough considering he valued our home at 180. The market is solid. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity. It was a wft moment. Told him i wouldn't give him 120 for it. Ten will do. In short, i called his bullshit. :mrgreen:
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
gounion
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by gounion »

Let's be clear: Capitalism MUST be regulated. Before it was regulated in this country during the FDR Administration after the entire economy and banking system melted down, every time we deregulate it, something melts down.

Here's what happens: With the New Deal, the government would guarantee deposits into banks. In the completely deregulated era, banks could issue their own currency, and it was a mess. We had panics every decade or two, when rumors would start that a bank didn't have enough money to cover the deposits, so people would rush to the banks to remove all their money, which would run the bank dry and depositers who didn't remove their money just plain lost their money. The FDR government eliminated privately issued banknotes.

This held for decades, until Reagan came in and wanted to deregulate our financial system. It took us back to the boom-and-bust times. After the Reagan deregulation, the S&L (Savings and Loan) crisis hit us, with S&Ls going belly up all over the place.

It's the same with the mortgage system. Again, after the New Deal, banks lent money for mortgages, and kept the note. You borrowed the money from the bank, and they wanted their money back, so they only loaned money to people they thought would get it back. With deregulated banking, the bank or lender never kept the note. They would immediately sell it and it was broken up into derivatives, which were given top ratings. Borrowers often had a hard time figuring out who to make their payments to.

When you deregulate crooks figure out how to play the system for big rewards. And crooks often run banks. See Wells Fargo.

Yes, it helps the economy in the short run, but always leads to a bubble, which always pops. When something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

But that's the world the GOP wants to give us.
Glennfs
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:08 pm You can never understand the difference between opinion and fact.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/l ... =joe-biden

You mean like these facts
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 2:21 pm Let's be clear: Capitalism MUST be regulated. Before it was regulated in this country during the FDR Administration after the entire economy and banking system melted down, every time we deregulate it, something melts down.

Here's what happens: With the New Deal, the government would guarantee deposits into banks. In the completely deregulated era, banks could issue their own currency, and it was a mess. We had panics every decade or two, when rumors would start that a bank didn't have enough money to cover the deposits, so people would rush to the banks to remove all their money, which would run the bank dry and depositers who didn't remove their money just plain lost their money. The FDR government eliminated privately issued banknotes.

This held for decades, until Reagan came in and wanted to deregulate our financial system. It took us back to the boom-and-bust times. After the Reagan deregulation, the S&L (Savings and Loan) crisis hit us, with S&Ls going belly up all over the place.

It's the same with the mortgage system. Again, after the New Deal, banks lent money for mortgages, and kept the note. You borrowed the money from the bank, and they wanted their money back, so they only loaned money to people they thought would get it back. With deregulated banking, the bank or lender never kept the note. They would immediately sell it and it was broken up into derivatives, which were given top ratings. Borrowers often had a hard time figuring out who to make their payments to.

When you deregulate crooks figure out how to play the system for big rewards. And crooks often run banks. See Wells Fargo.

Yes, it helps the economy in the short run, but always leads to a bubble, which always pops. When something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

But that's the world the GOP wants to give us.
The problem is you folks on the left do not realize that over regulation is just as bad as no regulations
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:38 pm The problem is you folks on the left do not realize that over regulation is just as bad as no regulations
But we aren’t there. We’re UNDER-regulated.The regulations of the banking and finance system during the FDR Administration worked for half a century, so it was excellent. When Reagan deregulated the S&Ls, it was an immediate disaster.

You can tweak regulations, but just doing away with them, as your side wants to do, is an easy to foresee disaster.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 4:33 pm But we aren’t there. We’re UNDER-regulated.The regulations of the banking and finance system during the FDR Administration worked for half a century, so it was excellent. When Reagan deregulated the S&Ls, it was an immediate disaster.

You can tweak regulations, but just doing away with them, as your side wants to do, is an easy to foresee disaster.
Carter was responsible.

“ Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act” 1980.


https://www.federalreservehistory.org/e ... ct-of-1980
JoeMemphis

Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:08 pm You can never understand the difference between opinion and fact.
I understand the difference. You obviously don’t.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by Bludogdem »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:37 am The banking problems that caused the 2008/2009 meltdown were years in the making and stretched across multiple administrations. Derivative investments that are difficult to understand and value were nothing new. People warned of that danger in the Clinton administration and the warnings continued into the Bush administration. The problem was that it was the perfect storm. Everyone was making money. Everyone was getting a loan. Everyone was getting a house. So no one wanted it to stop. Not Republicans. Not Democrats. So yeah, it was a failure of government and regulation shared by the executive branch and the legislative branch over multiple administrations.

I have friends in the apartment business and they were having to call applicants to let them know their credit wasn’t good enough to rent an apartment only to learn that the applicant later qualified to buy a home.

You would think we would learn from such mistakes. But lessons learned are soon forgotten. Crypto is the latest lesson on investing in something you can’t easily value.
The 1999 repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act played a huge part.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:21 pm The 1999 repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act played a huge part.
Nearly every piece of the New Deal that has been dismantled has proven to be a disaster.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:05 pm Nearly every piece of the New Deal that has been dismantled has proven to be a disaster.
Don’t forget to blame Carter for the Saving & Loan deregulation.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:09 pm Don’t forget to blame Carter for the Saving & Loan deregulation.
Carter fucked a lot of things up, including deregulation of trucking and the airlines.

I think the Southwest meltdown shows that there’s a great deal of re-regulation that should happen to the airlines.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:47 pm Carter fucked a lot of things up, including deregulation of trucking and the airlines.

I think the Southwest meltdown shows that there’s a great deal of re-regulation that should happen to the airlines.
Communication deregulation was a boon to life in the US. Accelerated at blinding speed computerized automation.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:51 pm Communication deregulation was a boon to life in the US. Accelerated at blinding speed computerized automation.
Communication changed because of technology changes, so things needed to change, but the lawmakers do keep up with new regulations that need to happen. It’s not a free-for-all.

But the financial sector is always a mess when deregulated. The right is wrong every damned time.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by bradman »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:51 pm Communication deregulation was a boon to life in the US. Accelerated at blinding speed computerized automation.
30 years i had a front row seat. Some may call it a boon. i call it a rape. A feeding frenzy. This is a decent timeline off the breakup and sell off....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_o ... ell_System
Breakup of the Bell System
Accounting and insider trading irregularities
The company was also involved in accounting scandals, and was fined $250 million by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), to be split into two $125 million payments due to the poor state of Qwest's current financial health. Among the transactions in question were a series of deals from 1999 to 2001 with Enron's broadband division which may have helped Enron conceal losses. In 2005, former Chairman and chief executive officer (CEO) Joseph Nacchio, former President and chief operating officer (COO) Afshin Mohebbi and seven other former Qwest employees were accused of fraud in a civil lawsuit filed by the SEC. Separately, Nacchio was convicted of 19 counts of insider trading in Qwest stock on April 19, 2007.[9] On March 31, 2011, US Federal Judge Marcia Krieger issued a summary judgement rejecting all SEC's claims against Afshin Mohebbi and ruling in his favor.
[bold]It was some real Gordan Gekko shit going on. By the time Nacchio and crew were done the place was a total wreck. The union basically broken and laid in ruins. Morale and quality a mere shadow of what it once was. Over sold and over valued by the time the bubble burst. Ahhhhhhhhh.........Good times.
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Glennfs
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by Glennfs »

bradman wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:40 pm 30 years i had a front row seat. Some may call it a boon. i call it a rape. A feeding frenzy. This is a decent timeline off the breakup and sell off....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_o ... ell_System
Breakup of the Bell System
Accounting and insider trading irregularities


[bold]It was some real Gordan Gekko shit going on. By the time Nacchio and crew were done the place was a total wreck. The union basically broken and laid in ruins. Morale and quality a mere shadow of what it once was. Over sold and over valued by the time the bubble burst. Ahhhhhhhhh.........Good times.
Ohio senator William Saxbe as I recall was one of the spearheads in braking up Bell back in the day.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by bradman »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:11 am Ohio senator William Saxbe as I recall was one of the spearheads in braking up Bell back in the day.
You'd be right. i was able to find this.......

https://reason.com/1981/04/01/dial-d-for-deregulation/
Dial D for Deregulation
The telephone monopoly is coming apart-and just about everyone stands to benefit.
Also involved as a dark horse in the deregulation race is the Department of Justice, which has Bell in court on antitrust charges with the intention of breaking it up into smaller operating units to "enhance competition." Favoring this attempt, William B. Saxbe, spokesman for the North American Telephone Association (NATA), warned of problems with phased deregulation such as found in the House bill. Specifically, he was concerned with the fact that AT&T may use the billions in funds it "gouges" from customers in regulated markets (here meaning your telephone hook-up to your local telephone exchange) to unfairly support its activities in unregulated markets. Remember that AT&T has annual revenues close to $40 billion, with total assets exceeding $100 billion and, as such, is not only a dominant market force but potentially the most influential, feared competitor in telecommunications or any related field.
It's a good article and explains BD's point........
The results of the 1934 Communications Act should have been expected. It was as if the Congress had neatly tucked the mostly willing telephone industry (pronounced "Ma Bell") into the freezer (with all the enticing goodies inside), closed the door, and flipped on the switch. Except for infrequent openings of the door, the telephone industry has remained locked inside—still with its goodies, it is true, but stifled and frozen.

For the past several years, however, various new industries have been raiding the ice box, leaving the door open for increasing periods of time. Ma Bell, thawing out in the warm air of competition, has not only seen her goodies disappearing at close hand but has smelled the fruits of the free market cooking on the stove in the distance. Now she wants out and is rocking the refrigerator to get what she wants: freedom from the restrictions of regulation. And some of the government officials who have been observing all this ruckus from in front of the ice box have just made a dramatic move to dismantle the door.

Why this change on the part of the government? Is it vision, money, good will, power, or a change in philosophy? Perhaps it is a little of each, but most importantly, it has been brought about by technological advances in a field other than telephony. Actually, those hot, savory items sitting on the stove that Ma Bell is eyeing so enviously are computers—or, more properly, profits brought home by the computer industry.
[bold]The author forgot rape, pillage, and burn.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by gounion »

A FB post by Southwest Pilot Larry Lonero lays it out:
Herb Kelleher was the brilliant CEO of SWA until 2004. He was a very operationally oriented leader. Herb spent lots of time on the front line. He always had his pulse on the day to day operation and the people who ran it. That philosophy flowed down through the ranks of leadership to the front line managers. We were a tight operation from top to bottom. We had tools, leadership and employee buy in. Everything that was needed to run a first class operation. When Herb retired in 2004 Gary Kelly became the new CEO.
Gary was an accountant by education and his style leading Southwest Airlines became more focused on finances and less on operations. He did not spend much time on the front lines. He didn’t engage front line employees much. When the CEO doesn’t get out in the trenches then neither do the lower levels of leadership.
Gary named another accountant to be Chief Operating Officer (the person responsible for day to day operations). The new COO had little or no operational background. This trickled down through the lower levels of leadership, as well.
They all disengaged the operation, disengaged the employees and focused more on Return on Investment, stock buybacks and Wall Street. This approach worked for Gary’s first 8 years because we were still riding the strong wave that Herb had built.
But as time went on the operation began to deteriorate. There was little investment in upgrading technology (after all, how do you measure the return on investing in infrastructure?) or the tools we needed to operate efficiently and consistently. As the frontline employees began to see the deterioration in our operation we began to warn our leadership. We educated them, we informed them and we made suggestions to them. But to no avail. The focus was on finances not operations. As we saw more and more deterioration in our operation our asks turned to pleas. Our pleas turned to dire warnings. But they went unheeded. After all, the stock price was up so what could be wrong?
Herb Kelleher built an airline like no other. I was honored to meet and converse with him for quite a while about the time of his retirement, when he was.given an award by the Texas Labor-Management Association.

But when you put an organization in the hands of bean-counters, it goes all to hell. Isn’t that right, JoeMemphis?
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by ZoWie »

Communication deregulation broke the AT&T monopoly, and that was good.

Communication deregulation was taken over by Ray Gun and his scoundrels, and it became bad. It gave us Faux Nooz and Internet sites that track your every move through little code bombs planted in your op-system by essentially the same hacks that the bad guys use only they're OK because it's not the bad guys doing it.

That's like saying it's OK for everyone to carry a gun at all times because the bad guys won't carry and we'll all be safe. Oh wait, the cons say that too.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

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Regulation isn’t the problem, MONOPOLIES are the problem. Bell controlled EVERYTHING, you couldn’t even buy a phone, you could only rent them from bell, and pay extra for every extension. They controlled everything with a iron fist and wouldn’t innovate at all on their own.

Breaking up Bell and allowing other companies to enter the market was the solution. They still needed to be regulated.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by ZoWie »

I believe that is what I said.

It's obvious to anyone out of the ninth grade that there is good deregulation and bad deregulation.

Historically, most of the bad deregulation has been done by Republicans, though of course it's something of a judgment call. Ray Gun's turning loose the media dogs of war might have made a lot of money for a lot of people, temporarily boosting the economy, but it turned the society into a zoo.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by gounion »

ZoWie wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:02 pm I believe that is what I said.
I wasn't disagreeing with what you said.
It's obvious to anyone out of the ninth grade that there is good deregulation and bad deregulation.

Historically, most of the bad deregulation has been done by Republicans, though of course it's something of a judgment call. Ray Gun's turning loose the media dogs of war might have made a lot of money for a lot of people, temporarily boosting the economy, but it turned the society into a zoo.
Yep, it always to let the dishonest ones dream up more ways to fleece people.
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Re: Congressional panel votes to release Trump’s tax returns to public

Post by Bludogdem »

bradman wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:40 pm 30 years i had a front row seat. Some may call it a boon. i call it a rape. A feeding frenzy. This is a decent timeline off the breakup and sell off....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_o ... ell_System
Breakup of the Bell System
Accounting and insider trading irregularities


[bold]It was some real Gordan Gekko shit going on. By the time Nacchio and crew were done the place was a total wreck. The union basically broken and laid in ruins. Morale and quality a mere shadow of what it once was. Over sold and over valued by the time the bubble burst. Ahhhhhhhhh.........Good times.
I’m referring to the first round, early eighties. From the 70’s up through the early 80’s we were at the mercy of Bell, begging and pleading for 56kb data lines to network throughout the nation. Then suddenly deregulation and we had vendors offerings and a quickly evolving commercial microwave national networks to move our data. And it just exploded from there.
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