Elon Musk Income Taxes

[Bludogdem]

It has been growing less progressive over the last few decades.

I understand even our President has noted something to that effect. I agree with him.

When 45-50% of households don’t pay federal income tax I’d say it’s progressive in a good way. Taxes are paid by the higher income peoples.

[Bludogdem]

Again, it's YOU trying to pretend the rich are overburdened with taxes, while pretending you aren't. And no one is buying it.

I never said they were burdened in any way. I really appreciate Musk paying $10-$15 billion. Hope he sells more stock and pays more taxes. Same for Bezos.

[gounion]

I never said they were burdened in any way. I really appreciate Musk paying $10-$15 billion. Hope he sells more stock and pays more taxes. Same for Bezos.

I'd just be happy if they paid the same percentage of their income in taxes than I do. They don't. Most of their income is sheltered. Like Mitt Romney had to re-do his tax returns before he released them, because he had actually paid a MUCH lower percentage of his income in taxes at first. So, he didn't take a bunch of deductions he was entitled to, to pretend he really did pay a lot in taxes.

We know that Trump many years didn't pay any income taxes at all. We know that the rich DO NOT pay their fair share.

[gounion]

When 45-50% of households don’t pay federal income tax I’d say it’s progressive in a good way. Taxes are paid by the higher income peoples.

Taxes are paid by the middle working class. Since we work for a salary, we can't hide our income like the rich can. The guy sitting at his pool phoning his stock broker pays a lower percentage than the firefighter who risks his life every day for HIS paycheck.

The there's those who get all their money free by inheritance. They don't pay a dime in taxes on the windfall they get.

[ProfX]

When 45-50% of households don’t pay federal income tax I’d say it’s progressive in a good way. Taxes are paid by the higher income peoples.

That stat is often very poorly described. The way some politicians mouth it, they appear to think there is a caste of people called "the 45%" that never pay any income tax. Ever.

The bottom line is sometimes people owe no federal income tax due to transitory conditions ... unemployment, disability, being a student, etc. This doesn't mean that just because they don't in one year, that they never will.

That number actually can vary a lot based on conditions. No shock, in last year's pandemic year, it was higher. In many other years, it's less. So again it's not like there is a fixed percentage of people in our country never paying income taxes for their entire lives. Absolutely not true.

[gounion]

That stat is often very poorly described. The way some politicians mouth it, they appear to think there is a caste of people called "the 45%" that never pay any income tax. Ever.

The bottom line is sometimes people owe no federal income tax due to transitory conditions ... unemployment, disability, being a student, etc. This doesn't mean that just because they don't in one year, that they never will.

That number actually can vary a lot based on conditions. No shock, in last year's pandemic year, it was higher. In many other years, it's less. So again it's not like there is a fixed percentage of people in our country never paying income taxes for their entire lives. Absolutely not true.

And, from the article I posted in the wealth thread, some people are wealthy, and don't have yearly income, so they don't pay any income taxes either.

[JoeMemphis]

When 45-50% of households don’t pay federal income tax I’d say it’s progressive in a good way. Taxes are paid by the higher income peoples.

I’m not so sure that’s 100% accurate. Increasing the tax burden on fewer and fewer people esp the folks who work and the business community will ultimately result in higher prices for goods and services. It raises the cost of labor. It raises the costs of production. The folks who will be funding all of this will seek to offset those increases in costs. If the economy and gdp do not grow, this will result in inflationary pressures.

[gounion]

I’m not so sure that’s 100% accurate. Increasing the tax burden on fewer and fewer people esp the folks who work and the business community will ultimately result in higher prices for goods and services. It raises the cost of labor. It raises the costs of production. The folks who will be funding all of this will seek to offset those increases in costs. If the economy and gdp do not grow, this will result in inflationary pressures.

The good news is that when Dems are in charge, the economy and GDP DO grow.

So what Joe is saying is that we need to tax the FUCK out of the poor.

Because he sure as hell isn't talking about taxing the idle rich who don't work. Like the Waltons.

[Glennfs]

Taxes are paid by the middle working class. Since we work for a salary, we can't hide our income like the rich can. The guy sitting at his pool phoning his stock broker pays a lower percentage than the firefighter who risks his life every day for HIS paycheck.

The there's those who get all their money free by inheritance. They don't pay a dime in taxes on the windfall they get.

A you claim you aren't a socialist but you are opposed to people passing down their wealth. Because you believe at the end of the day it all belongs to the government
B you keep repeating the big lie about the wealthy not paying taxes or not paying their fare share.
It is because you are either intentionally lying or just another low information liberal.

The fact is the Top 1pct earn 21pct of wages and pay 40pct of all federal taxes collected.
The top 10pct earn 48pct of wages and pay 71pct of all federal taxes collected.

So now that you know the truth the next time you repeat the big lie we will know you to be a liar as opposed to just another low information liberal

[gounion]

A you claim you aren't a socialist but you are opposed to people passing down their wealth. Because you believe at the end of the day it all belongs to the government
B you keep repeating the big lie about the wealthy not paying taxes or not paying their fare share.
It is because you are either intentionally lying or just another low information liberal.

The fact is the Top 1pct earn 21pct of wages and pay 40pct of all federal taxes collected.
The top 10pct earn 48pct of wages and pay 71pct of all federal taxes collected.

So now that you know the truth the next time you repeat the big lie we will know you to be a liar as opposed to just another low information liberal

Why should I have to pay taxes on every dime I make, but Paris Hilton inherits hundreds of millions and pays zero taxes on HER windfall?

And all you want to do is cut taxes for the rich. Why should people like Mitt Romney get by with paying less of his income in taxes than I do?

You SAY that the rich should pay more. Does that include investment income? Should it be taxed like regular wages?

And Mitt gets to take all kinds of shelters and other ways to keep his real income from being "taxable income". I don't.

[Glennfs]

Why should I have to pay taxes on every dime I make, but Paris Hilton inherits hundreds of millions and pays zero taxes on HER windfall?

And all you want to do is cut taxes for the rich. Why should people like Mitt Romney get by with paying less of his income in taxes than I do?

You SAY that the rich should pay more. Does that include investment income? Should it be taxed like regular wages?

And Mitt gets to take all kinds of shelters and other ways to keep his real income from being "taxable income". I don't.

That is like saying why should I get to shelter my income by deducting the interest on my mortgage while people who rent can't
As for people like Hilton and Romney they pay far more in taxes on their earned income in both percentage and actual dollars than you do

[gounion]

That is like saying why should I get to shelter my income by deducting the interest on my mortgage while people who rent can't
As for people like Hilton and Romney they pay far more in taxes on their earned income in both percentage and actual dollars than you do

No, they don't. Romney had some of his taxes released - refusing to release more than tow years - and he re-did his taxes for one of those years to change the amount of taxes he paid, choosing not to take some dedications to make it look better. But he SWORE he paid AT LEAST 13 percent each year in the last ten years, even though the one he changed, he was paying less.

Thirteen percent is less than I had to pay when working.

Now, in actual dollars, Romney probably pays more for his dry cleaning than I earned any year of my life.

So you're saying that the rich should only pay as much as any other American? So if someone doesn't work, and pays no taxes, that's what Romney should pay?

[ProfX]

The fact is the Top 1pct earn 21pct of wages and pay 40pct of all federal taxes collected.
The top 10pct earn 48pct of wages and pay 71pct of all federal taxes collected.

Source?

And if you don't have a source for what you are claiming is empirical data or information, don't accuse other people of being low information.

[carmenjonze]

The fact is the Top 1pct earn 21pct of wages and pay 40pct of all federal taxes collected.

Source, please.

The top 10pct earn 48pct of wages and pay 71pct of all federal taxes collected.

Source?

So now that you know the truth ...

Sources for all this truth, please.

[gounion]

That is like saying why should I get to shelter my income by deducting the interest on my mortgage while people who rent can't
As for people like Hilton and Romney they pay far more in taxes on their earned income in both percentage and actual dollars than you do

Isn't that another deduction that advantages the wealthy far more than the poor?

[Glennfs]

Isn't that another deduction that advantages the wealthy far more than the poor?

If a person is poor they are paying no federal taxes. So no it isn't an advantage it is just another part of our tax code

[Glennfs]

It doesn't seem right if the extremely wealthy are excused from paying taxes on hundreds of billions of dollars while the vulnerable are punished ruthlessly for inability to pay. The difference so stark.

I would agree with you if it were true the problem is it isn't true.

[gounion]

I would agree with you if it were true the problem is it isn't true.

Try being poor, say a small business owner, and not paying the FICA. You'll be in prison for sure.

But nothing happens to Donald Trump.

[Motor City]

I would agree with you if it were true the problem is it isn't true.

They say robust

Biden’s $80 billion plan to beef up IRS audits may target wealthy small business owners

....“A robust and sustained investment in the IRS is necessary to ensure it can do its job of administering a fair and effective tax system,” said IRS Commissioner Chuck Rettig in an email.......

But its neither a fair or effective system if it excuses hundreds of billions of dollars to be accrued and from being taxed from wealthy and big business like amazon, and at the same time is intolerant to the vulnerable that the wealthy and big business has left in its wake.

The fight against the wealthy and big business will involve attorney's and tax professionals and lots of idle money and court time to absorb it but those vulnerable people starved of resources will be unprotected. Its not hard to imagine where the robust and sustained investment will flourish.

[Glennfs]

Try being poor, say a small business owner, and not paying the FICA. You'll be in prison for sure.

But nothing happens to Donald Trump.

No you will be fined and given a chance to get caught up. Unless if course you had the funds and were willfully cheating the government
Btw I wasn't aware trump shifted the government on fica could you provide a link or is that something you just made up

[gounion]

No you will be fined and given a chance to get caught up. Unless if course you had the funds and were willfully cheating the government
Btw I wasn't aware trump shifted the government on fica could you provide a link or is that something you just made up

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump didn't falsefy his taxes everywhere he could.

Oh, right, Trump is a great businessman, isn't he?

[Bludogdem]

I'd just be happy if they paid the same percentage of their income in taxes than I do. They don't. Most of their income is sheltered. Like Mitt Romney had to re-do his tax returns before he released them, because he had actually paid a MUCH lower percentage of his income in taxes at first. So, he didn't take a bunch of deductions he was entitled to, to pretend he really did pay a lot in taxes.

We know that Trump many years didn't pay any income taxes at all. We know that the rich DO NOT pay their fair share.

They pay a higher percentage than you do. Bezos paid an effective of 23-24% on $4,000,000,000. You are not paying an effective rate that high. Now personally I think the tax rate for capital gains should be 28%.

[Bludogdem]

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump didn't falsefy his taxes everywhere he could.

Oh, right, Trump is a great businessman, isn't he?

I doubt he knows the first thing about taxes. His people are probably are very well versed.

[Glennfs]

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump didn't falsefy his taxes everywhere he could.

Oh, right, Trump is a great businessman, isn't he?

So that is an opinion and not a fact that can be proven. I personally have no problem with a person's opinions on most subjects unlike most others here.
BTW ws are somewhat on the same page when it comes to trump and taxes. However he does have a team of lawyers preparing his taxes

[gounion]

They pay a higher percentage than you do. Bezos paid an effective of 23-24% on $4,000,000,000. You are not paying an effective rate that high. Now personally I think the tax rate for capital gains should be 28%.

Romney sure didn't pay more than me.

And we don't know what Bezos REALLY pays, since he doesn't release his returns to the public.

What did Trump pay?

The biggest problem is "taxable income". They get all kinds of tricks to take money away from "Taxable Income" that I can't do. It doesn't take long to do my taxes - things like wages for working people is a done deal.

But guys like Trump can make millions upon millions and have zero taxable income.

And why should the tax rate for sitting on your ass at the pool talking to your stock broker be cheaper than the rate for, say, a firefighter who risks his life for the public every day?

Give me your justification.