Democratic Party does it again

[Number6]

Yes, Bernie Sanders says he's a socialist, but he caucuses with the Democrats and votes consistently with that party. Bernie actually makes sense most of the time. His idea of socialism is closer to business as usual in Western Europe. Where I come from, that's Socialism Lite. Many of the countries doing it are monarchies. They have completely over-the-top upper classes that congregate in well-guarded resorts to take in a yacht race or a Grand Prix. Glenn could go online, run some searches, and find out what REAL socialist parties advocate, and it's not even close to Bernie. The left is the ultimate Big Tent. A little too big, in fact.

The monarchies of Western Europe and mainly figureheads and have little to no power over the political, economic, or social structure of their countries. They're remnants of the past preserved to continue the tradition(s) of their heritages.

[gounion]

I know GoU likes to point out that the democratic socialist party and socialist like Bernie Sanders say they aren't for government ownership of the means of production.
But when I look at their site they claim they are for corporations ran democratically. Which in my way of thinking is simply rebranding.
If corporations are ran democratically then we the people through our elected representatives will be running corporations.
Or in other words our corporations would be ran by the government

Now you're just making shit up.

Again, I'm not a member of CPUSA, so you're wrong about me and everyone else here.

[Glennfs]

Okay, so you've defined it. But none of us on this board are members of the CPUSA, so by your own definition, none of us are socialists.

Except when you look at what cpusa supports and what you support there is very little if any difference.
Plus, let's not forget that the democratic party is openly supporting socialism by appointing an admitted socialist to powerful positions

[Glennfs]

Now you're just making shit up.

Again, I'm not a member of CPUSA, so you're wrong about me and everyone else here.

So you are denying that you have said many times that people like Bernie Sanders and democratic socialist aren't for government ownership of corporations

[gounion]

Except when you look at what cpusa supports and what you support there is very little if any difference.
Plus, let's not forget that the democratic party is openly supporting socialism by appointing an admitted socialist to powerful positions

Well, you support everything Trump supports, and vote for all his supporters, so, you're a Trump Supporter.

And, you're a Republican, and they support Donald Trump, so you're a Trump Supporter.

Using your own logic.

[Number6]

You first

It's up to you to define socialism since you're using the word as a pejorative. Here's a hint for you, highlight the word "pejorative," right click on it and then click on Search Google for "pejorative."

I serious doubt you'll provide a definition of "socialism" for two reasons:
1. You don't know what it is and because it would require to learn about it.
2. You're just using the word you don't know/understand to troll.

[gounion]

So you are denying that you have said many times that people like Bernie Sanders aren't for government ownership of corporations

Wow, you're a real dumbass, aren't you?

[bradman]

We need a new word. Democratic socialism is difficult to define and has way to many different definitions.

One person will read the word and then freak the fuck out. For some reason it flips a little switch in their heads and by the time they actually say the word it comes out commie.

Another person reads the word and see's socialism playing somewhat the same role as unions did/do. A bulwark against the excesses of capitalism. Without something like it, "we the people" will continue to have our asses handed to us.

As been noted a million times before.....Nobody is advocating for seizing the means of production.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
Democratic socialism and social democracy

Democratic socialism has occasionally been described as the form of social democracy prior to the displacement of Keynesianism by neoliberalism and monetarism, which caused many social-democratic parties to adopt the Third Way ideology, accepting capitalism as the current status quo and powers that be, redefining socialism in a way that it maintained the capitalist structure intact.

In other words... The capitalists are required to provide a decent safety net to those they take advantage of. Call it what ya want, it's only fair.

[Glennfs]

Well, you support everything Trump supports, and vote for all his supporters, so, you're a Trump Supporter.

And, you're a Republican, and they support Donald Trump, so you're a Trump Supporter.

Using your own logic.

I support very little of what Trump supports

[Drak]

I support very little of what Trump supports

And yet, you're in here trolling the board claiming everyone who is a liberal is a socialist, because of your evil boogieman, Bernie Sanders.

And yet, you constantly defend Donald Trump and vote for his loyalists, who support the same ideas he does. Yah, sure Jan.

[Drak]

Speaking of running corporations. The GOP sure likes to insert itself into how corporations are run. I mean, look at what Trump was up to when he was in the WH. Then look at Ron DeSantis and how he threatens and punishes businesses that don't conform to his will. Then look at the GOP House who wants hearings on how Twitter carried out it's own Terms of Service, or how they want to go after Direct TV for making a marketing decision to drop OAN and Newsmax because the networks were not profitable. Yah, sure Jan.

[gounion]

I support very little of what Trump supports

You support EVERYTHING he supports. You come here all the time spouting his talking points. You use all his nicknames. It’s Trump that started all the “Biden has dementia” and you bought it hook, line and sinker. You even said Biden was so bad with Dementia he wouldn’t be able to put a sentence together during the debates. As always you were wrong.

[Glennfs]

You support EVERYTHING he supports. You come here all the time spouting his talking points. You use all his nicknames. It’s Trump that started all the “Biden has dementia” and you bought it hook, line and sinker. You even said Biden was so bad with Dementia he wouldn’t be able to put a sentence together during the debates. As always you were wrong.

I believed that Biden was in the early stages before Trump ever said it. As for the debate you are lying not because you are a liberal liar but, because you are a fucking liar. All you do is lie on close to every thread you lie.

Not because you simply made a mistake not just a difference of opinion straight up flat out lies. You sir are a fucking liar.

What I said as you know and yes I was wrong is this.
Biden would do OK not outstanding in the beginning which he did.

I said that in the last half hour or so he would stumble and do poorly. In that last half hour he did just as well as he did on the early debate.
However in the time he has been president he has time and again shown himself to be in mental decline.

Finally no I do not support much of what Trump supports. Yes I often bad mouth Trump and you know what I told you about Trump in private.
So go ahead come here and continue to lie if it makes you feel like it will improve your standing among your peer group.

But, know this at the end of the day you truly are a friendless man. You lived in that city in Texas for over a decade then moved away. In that decade you made exactly zero friends. Not once did you say I sure am going to miss this guy or that guy. Not once did you say me and my wife are going to miss dinners and parties at this or that couples home.

Fact is I feel sorry for you because you are a friendless lonely man. A person who is not a loner a person who desires and deserves friends and friendships but for whatever reason just do not know how to go about it.
I just spent days with people I've known since I was 12 years old. You sat at home alone. You need to take a personal SPC study and figure out what you are doing wrong

[Drak]

Fact is I feel sorry for you because you are a friendless lonely man. A person who is not a loner a person who desires and deserves friends and friendships but for whatever reason just do not know how to go about it.
I just spent days with people I've known since I was 12 years old. You sat at home alone. You need to take a personal SPC study and figure out what you are doing wrong

What a child. How much longer does this board have to tolerate this poster? No one cares who you feel sorry for. This is a political message board, grow up. Stop being a child. Stop playing the victim card. The fact is, all you do is parrot what Trump says and you vote for his supporters. All you do is constantly troll this message board attacking liberals. Every single day.

[gounion]

I believed that Biden was in the early stages before Trump ever said it. As for the debate you are lying not because you are a liberal liar but, because you are a fucking liar. All you do is lie on close to every thread you lie.

Not because you simply made a mistake not just a difference of opinion straight up flat out lies. You sir are a fucking liar.

What I said as you know and yes I was wrong is this.
Biden would do OK not outstanding in the beginning which he did.

I said that in the last half hour or so he would stumble and do poorly. In that last half hour he did just as well as he did on the early debate.
However in the time he has been president he has time and again shown himself to be in mental decline.

Finally no I do not support much of what Trump supports. Yes I often bad mouth Trump and you know what I told you about Trump in private.
So go ahead come here and continue to lie if it makes you feel like it will improve your standing among your peer group.

But, know this at the end of the day you truly are a friendless man. You lived in that city in Texas for over a decade then moved away. In that decade you made exactly zero friends. Not once did you say I sure am going to miss this guy or that guy. Not once did you say me and my wife are going to miss dinners and parties at this or that couples home.

Fact is I feel sorry for you because you are a friendless lonely man. A person who is not a loner a person who desires and deserves friends and friendships but for whatever reason just do not know how to go about it.
I just spent days with people I've known since I was 12 years old. You sat at home alone. You need to take a personal SPC study and figure out what you are doing wrong

Blah blah blah. You keep saying Biden has dementia, hoping that someday it’ll come true. Well, you could be right maybe a man with dementia can make the entire Republican Party look like fools.

You SAY you don’t support Trump, but you always repeat his talking points and come to his defense. And when he is indicted, you’ll attack the indictment. You can take that to the bank.

[JoeMemphis]

We need a new word. Democratic socialism is difficult to define and has way to many different definitions.

One person will read the word and then freak the fuck out. For some reason it flips a little switch in their heads and by the time they actually say the word it comes out commie.

Another person reads the word and see's socialism playing somewhat the same role as unions did/do. A bulwark against the excesses of capitalism. Without something like it, "we the people" will continue to have our asses handed to us.

As been noted a million times before.....Nobody is advocating for seizing the means of production.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
Democratic socialism and social democracy


In other words... The capitalists are required to provide a decent safety net to those they take advantage of. Call it what ya want, it's only fair.

Now all we gotta do is define “decent safety net”. Therein lies the rub. Then once you define that we gotta figure out how much it costs and who has to pay for it. I have a feeling it ain’t gonna be free.

[gounion]

Now all we gotta do is define “decent safety net”. Therein lies the rub. Then once you define that we gotta figure out how much it costs and who has to pay for it. I have a feeling it ain’t gonna be free.

Health care, for instance. We pay almost twice our GDP on health care than any other industrialized country, yet they cover 100% of their citizens and we don’t. Yes, taxes might go up some, but most companies pay $2 grand OR BETTER A month for health insurance for their workers. When we were at the bargaining table with a company with a Canadian corporate owner, the company questioned why they should keep the factory here - because, while their taxes were somewhat higher, they didn’t pay $2,500 a month per employee for family coverage.

Tell me, how do you argue with that? You’re an accountant - the numbers don’t add up.

[JoeMemphis]

Health care, for instance. We pay almost twice our GDP on health care than any other industrialized country, yet they cover 100% of their citizens and we don’t. Yes, taxes might go up some, but most companies pay $2 grand OR BETTER A month for health insurance for their workers. When we were at the bargaining table with a company with a Canadian corporate owner, the company questioned why they should keep the factory here - because, while their taxes were somewhat higher, they didn’t pay $2,500 a month per employee for family coverage.

Tell me, how do you argue with that? You’re an accountant - the numbers don’t add up.

I’m not interested in discussing this with someone who isn’t capable of honest discussion. That leaves you out.

[gounion]

I’m not interested in discussing this with someone who isn’t capable of honest discussion. That leaves you out.

Yeah, run away you gutless worm. It’s because you can’t come up with a rebuttal, because there IS no rebuttal to it. That and you’ve got lots of money invested in Pharma and you don’t want the gravy train to end, do you?

[JoeMemphis]

Yeah, run away you gutless worm. It’s because you can’t come up with a rebuttal, because there IS no rebuttal to it. That and you’ve got lots of money invested in Pharma and you don’t want the gravy train to end, do you?

I don’t need to rebut lies or liars. Why don’t you run along and go debate someone who gives a shit about what you think. I’ll do the board a favor and ignore you for the rest of the thread rather than subject them to the meaningless back and forth that usually happens when you atempt to involve yourself in a honesr adult discussion.

[bradman]

Now all we gotta do is define “decent safety net”. Therein lies the rub. Then once you define that we gotta figure out how much it costs and who has to pay for it. I have a feeling it ain’t gonna be free.

The capitalists are required to provide a decent safety net to those they take advantage of.

[bold] i originally had, "for those they fuck", but figured it'd be best to tone it down.

The rub is that the rich need us as much as we need them.

Each party has to pay their fair share.

[JoeMemphis]

[bold] i originally had, "for those they fuck", but figured it'd be best to tone it down.

The rub is that the rich need us as much as we need them.

Each party has to pay their fair share.

I don’t disagree with the notion of fairness. I think everyone wants to be treated fairly. The problem is that not everybody will agree on what exactly “fair” means.

I have asked numerous times on this board over the years for someone to give me a definition of “fair share”. I rarely get an answer. I remember the last time we passed tax legislation that was supposed to make sure everyone paid their fair share. The next year some of the same people were again talking about the need to pass more legislation to get people to pay their fair share. I’m wondering if fair share to some of these folks just means whatever you got left.

Personally, I don’t think the government in total including federal,state and local should keep more of your paycheck than you get to keep for yourself.

[gounion]

I don’t need to rebut lies or liars. Why don’t you run along and go debate someone who gives a shit about what you think. I’ll do the board a favor and ignore you for the rest of the thread rather than subject them to the meaningless back and forth that usually happens when you atempt to involve yourself in a honesr adult discussion.

Didn't lie at all. And everything I said was true - while I'm not saying what company it was, but it's true that Canadian companies don't have to pay for employee health care.

And we all see how you run away. You want what we have now, but you can't defend it.

And don't worry, I won't run away. I'll reply to you, and it'll drive you up a tree as always.

[gounion]

I don’t disagree with the notion of fairness. I think everyone wants to be treated fairly. The problem is that not everybody will agree on what exactly “fair” means.

I have asked numerous times on this board over the years for someone to give me a definition of “fair share”. I rarely get an answer. I remember the last time we passed tax legislation that was supposed to make sure everyone paid their fair share. The next year some of the same people were again talking about the need to pass more legislation to get people to pay their fair share. I’m wondering if fair share to some of these folks just means whatever you got left.

Personally, I don’t think the government in total including federal,state and local should keep more of your paycheck than you get to keep for yourself.

So, you want US to tell YOU what "fairness" is, but you won't make a try at it yourself.

You just want to be able to attack what WE put forth, but you never make a stand you'd have to defend.

[ZoWie]

"Fair share" means that we eliminate all the deductions, offshore dummy corporations, and legal tax dodges available to billionaires. As everyone knows only too well, these can and do reduce their tax burdens, while the middle and upper middle classes can't afford those tools and when all is said and done they usually pay at a much higher rate. Our tax system would work out just fine were it a true progressive tax setup, but it is in practice actually rather regressive. I don't want to hear that some billionaire paid some huge sum in taxes when it's the percentage that matters.

Equal rights under the law include equal or progressive taxation. We have neither, except on paper.