Elon Musk is worth 286 billion

[Bludogdem]

Do you have Mitt Romney's tax returns from 2016 to 2018?

He released them when he as running for the senate.

[gounion]

Taxing “wealth” will only invite game playing. You going to get everything appraised every year. What happens in a downturn, you going to refund the losses. What happens in the next upturn, you going to retax me on the gains recovered? There’s all kinds of problems taxing unrealized gains. Not to mention the fact that the folks affected by those types of taxes are a hellava lot smarter than the tax guys or the legislators. So you will wind up with tons more money off shore where the US can’t touch it.

Maybe a better idea is to figure out something that isn’t a money grab and that is “fair” and make it easy and reasonable for people to do the right thing. I’m always amused when people say the wealthy ought to pay their fair share and yet they can never say what exactly that means. I’m also amused when folks say that we need more entitlement/safety net programs and yet are unwilling to contribute to them and want someone else to pay the tab.

I’ve talked to a fair number of investors and they always want to know what the person benefiting from their investment is willing to put up in a deal. If that number is zero, their chances of getting any money drops substantially. The day is coming when we all these entitlement obligations will need to be funded and the politicians will be forced to actually pay for their promises and they won’t be able to get it from just the rich.

I've said it many times - Let's start with the rich paying AT LEAST the same real tax rate that I paid for a start. For a start.

Because most of them don't.

Investment income should be taxed as regular income. A guy sitting at the pool talking to his broker shouldn't pay a smaller rate than people who work for a living.

Here's the thing - the government shapes it's tax policy to reward things they want people to do. Well, starting with Reagan, they decided that work should be taxed heavier than anything else, after all, all dummies work for a living, right?

That needs to change. Work should be treated better tax-wise than anything else. Free money should be taxed higher than what people work for. Things like lottery winnings, gambling winnings and inheritance.

[gounion]

He released them when he as running for the senate.

I missed that, since I didn't live in Utah.

But he paid a lot less in the years he released when he ran for President. Less than I did.

Plus, he used the bankruptcy system as a vulture capitalist for Bain where he would buy a company with debt, then suck it dry of all it's real wealth and pocket that, then he would run it through bankruptcy to shed the debt he borrowed in the first place. That included stealing people's pensions and leaving them with nothing.

It always astonishes me how religious people don't mind fucking over working people.

[Glennfs]

I missed that, since I didn't live in Utah.

But he paid a lot less in the years he released when he ran for President. Less than I did.

Plus, he used the bankruptcy system as a vulture capitalist for Bain where he would buy a company with debt, then suck it dry of all it's real wealth and pocket that, then he would run it through bankruptcy to shed the debt he borrowed in the first place. That included stealing people's pensions and leaving them with nothing.

It always astonishes me how religious people don't mind fucking over working people.

Link please

[gounion]

Link please

Google it.

[Glennfs]

Google it.

Don't need to because we both know what you said is a lie.

[gounion]

Don't need to because we both know what you said is a lie.

You just can't google.

I told the truth. But calling other people liars when they aren't is all you have.

[Glennfs]

You just can't google.

I told the truth. But calling other people liars when they aren't is all you have.

We both know you are lying much if not all of the things you claim happened after Romney left Bain Capital. You just hate Romney because of his religious beliefs and because he is a conservative Republican.

[gounion]

We both know you are lying much if not all of the things you claim happened after Romney left Bain Capital. You just hate Romney because of his religious beliefs and because he is a conservative Republican.

Here's what your hero Newt Gingrich and other Republicans had to say about him:

Gingrich went further, criticizing the type of business Romney engaged in. “Look, I’m for capitalism,” Gingrich said on NBC’s “Today” show. “But if somebody comes in, takes all the money out of your company and then leaves you bankrupt while they go off with millions, that’s not traditional capitalism.”

He said on Bloomberg Television, “The question is whether or not these companies were being manipulated by the guys who invest to drain them of their money, leaving behind people who were unemployed.” He added: “Show me somebody who has consistently made money while losing money for workers, and I’ll show you someone who has undermined capitalism.... That’s an indefensible model.”

Perry told a town hall meeting in Fort Mill, S.C., that firms such as Bain Capital were “just vultures” that “loot” other companies. “They’re vultures that are sitting out there on the tree limb, waiting for a company to get sick,” Politico quoted Perry as saying. “And then they swoop in, they eat the carcass, they leave with that and they leave the skeleton.”

And let's be clear: Even though he's corrupt as hell and liked to divorce his wives to marry younger women, including a lobbyist, you think Newt should be President.

[Glennfs]

Here's what your hero Newt Gingrich and other Republicans had to say about him:



And let's be clear: Even though he's corrupt as hell and liked to divorce his wives to marry younger women, including a lobbyist, you think Newt should be President.

At one time I am sure Gingrich would have made a very good president. But that time has passed.

[gounion]

At one time I am sure Gingrich would have made a very good president. But that time has passed.

He was always a corrupt bastard. Still is.

I notice you couldn't respond to the actual post. You wanted a fucking link, there it is. You called me a liar, you piece of shit. Now take it back.

[gounion]

More on Romney and Bain:

How Mitt Romney Drove Companies Bankrupt, Raided Pension Funds and Paid Himself Handsomely

Mitt Romney’s Bain Capital was very good at making money for Mitt Romney.

At the same time, it loaded companies Bain bought with debt, borrowed even more money to pay dividends to Mitt Romney and destroyed or outsourced lots of jobs. It even raided pension funds. Then Romney turns around and holds himself up as a “successful businessman.”

Sure, he was successful in terms of making money for himself. But this was at the expense of workers who lost their jobs at previously successful companies when they went bankrupt—a debt loaded on them by bank-borrowed money that went directly into Romney’s pocket.

Here’s how a private equity fund such as Bain Capital works: It picks a successful company and then takes it over with a leveraged buyout (LBO). The money borrowed from a bank to pay off the owner or stockholders does not become the debt of Bain Capital. It becomes the debt of the company that was taken over.

You might ask, “Why would a bank even loan money to place a company in debt for the purposes of being taken over by Bain Capital which does not even assume the debt?” Well, it’s for the same reason that so many subprime loans were available. The bank does not continue to hold the debt. It offloads it to investors such as pension funds so the bank doesn’t really care. They have no skin in the game.

Why not loan Mitt Romney money to take over companies? There’s good money in those commissions.

Pension funds show up again and again as the fall guys in Wall Street machinations. They are the dumb clucks who keep trying to make up for the fact they are 50% underfunded by entering into sucker bets and losing even more money. And since Romney and Bain do not assume the debt themselves, they don’t care if the overleveraged company goes bankrupt since, if it does, they lose nothing. That company is just a money conduit for Romney since, as soon as they take it over, they have the company borrow even more money in order to pay Romney a dividend.

[gounion]

Mitt Romney's tax rate:

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney fought back on Friday against Democratic charges he paid no taxes in some years, releasing a letter from his accountants saying he paid an effective federal tax rate of at least 13.6 percent annually over 20 years.

Despite heavy political pressure, Romney stood firm in refusing to make those returns public, but followed through on an earlier promise to release his 2011 return. It showed he paid $1.9 million in taxes on more than $13 million in income - an effective tax rate of 14.1 percent.

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid and others have questioned whether Romney paid taxes in at least some of those earlier years. President Barack Obama has used Romney’s refusal to release more returns as support for his argument that his challenger is out of touch with the lives of everyday Americans.

Romney, who faces Obama in the November 6 election, earns the majority of his income from investment profits, dividends and interest that is taxed at a lower rate than wage income, which is taxed at a top rate of 35 percent.

He didn't release the returns because he knew what was in them would be worse for his campaign than the heat he was getting for refusing to release them. It's that simple. Releasing them would lose votes.

So much for how the rich pay sooooo much of our taxes!

So, Glenn, you wanted the links here they are. Now apologize for calling me a liar.

[Glennfs]

Mitt Romney's tax rate:



He didn't release the returns because he knew what was in them would be worse for his campaign than the heat he was getting for refusing to release them. It's that simple. Releasing them would lose votes.

So much for how the rich pay sooooo much of our taxes!

So, Glenn, you wanted the links here they are. Now apologize for calling me a liar.

He paid his legal taxes there is no issue there

[Glennfs]

More on Romney and Bain:

What a great source an article from an underground newspaper written by this guy.

https://willblogforfood.typepad.com/wil ... efere.html

[gounion]

What a great source an underground newspaper article written by this guy.

https://willblogforfood.typepad.com/wil ... efere.html

I knew you were too much of a chicken shit. You would just evade.

Sorry, but the story is from Reuters. I can tell you from professional experience that the fact checkers at Reuters is among the best in the country. Reuters is about factual reporting and nothing else.

[gounion]

Romney Used His Bermudan Company to Invest in Chinese Outsourcing

[JoeMemphis]

I've said it many times - Let's start with the rich paying AT LEAST the same real tax rate that I paid for a start. For a start.

Because most of them don't.

Investment income should be taxed as regular income. A guy sitting at the pool talking to his broker shouldn't pay a smaller rate than people who work for a living.

Here's the thing - the government shapes it's tax policy to reward things they want people to do. Well, starting with Reagan, they decided that work should be taxed heavier than anything else, after all, all dummies work for a living, right?

That needs to change. Work should be treated better tax-wise than anything else. Free money should be taxed higher than what people work for. Things like lottery winnings, gambling winnings and inheritance.

How do you know they decided to tax work heavier. What’s to say they weren’t trying to encourage investment? We use the tax code as you point out to encourage all kinds of things and then when people actually take advantage of those opportunities, folks like you complain. Personally, I think investing is a good thing.

[gounion]

How do you know they decided to tax work heavier. What’s to say they weren’t trying to encourage investment? We use the tax code as you point out to encourage all kinds of things and then when people actually take advantage of those opportunities, folks like you complain. Personally, I think investing is a good thing.

I would agree in theory. But any factories built in America are underwritten by the taxpayer. How does investment in building factories offshore help us? Or investing in China offshoring like Mitt Romney did? Why should we give them cuts instead of Americans who work for a living? You’ve been very strong the last few weeks on INCREASING their taxes!

[Bludogdem]

Mitt Romney's tax rate:



He didn't release the returns because he knew what was in them would be worse for his campaign than the heat he was getting for refusing to release them. It's that simple. Releasing them would lose votes.

So much for how the rich pay sooooo much of our taxes!

So, Glenn, you wanted the links here they are. Now apologize for calling me a liar.

The top 10% pay 71% of federal income taxes. So, yeah, they do pay.

[JoeMemphis]

I would agree in theory. But any factories built in America are underwritten by the taxpayer. How does investment in building factories offshore help us? Or investing in China offshoring like Mitt Romney did? Why should we give them cuts instead of Americans who work for a living? You’ve been very strong the last few weeks on INCREASING their taxes!

You have stated often that factories built in this country are underwritten by taxpayers. While I admit local and state governments often offer incentives to these companies, that is only a fraction of the cost. So your statement is misleading IMO.

My position on taxation is that if we are going to expand entitlement programs/social safety net programs, those programs should be funded by payroll taxes which are shared by individual tax payers and their employers. You have likened these programs to insurance. If you want more coverage you pay more in premiums. The myth that these things are free and don’t cost money needs to end. It’s dishonest.

[gounion]

The top 10% pay 71% of federal income taxes. So, yeah, they do pay.

Here's the thing: Put Mitt Romney up against me. Of the two of us, even if he only paid a 10th of a percent, he'd STILL pay over 99% of the taxes paid between the two of us.

BTW, the threshold to be in the top 10% is $151,000. So I was in the top 10%.

[gounion]

You have stated often that factories built in this country are underwritten by taxpayers. While I admit local and state governments often offer incentives to these companies, that is only a fraction of the cost. So your statement is misleading IMO.

My position on taxation is that if we are going to expand entitlement programs/social safety net programs, those programs should be funded by payroll taxes which are shared by individual tax payers and their employers. You have likened these programs to insurance. If you want more coverage you pay more in premiums. The myth that these things are free and don’t cost money needs to end. It’s dishonest.

They get free land, free buildings, no taxation, PLUS cash. When the Mercedes plant went in, they paid a TON of money, nearly $200 grand PER EMPLOYEE that was hired. So, I'd say YOUR statement is misleading.

I consider it extortion when these companies put a new plant up for bid to the state that will give them the most taxpayer dollars.

I just find it hilarious how you are so keen to increase the taxation of the working class, and so damned defensive about the idea of raising taxes on the wealthy class.

[bird]

The top 10% pay 71% of federal income taxes. So, yeah, they do pay.

Again with this bullshit crap.

EVERYBODY that gets wages pays taxes. it is taken out as you are paid. That low income people get money back is irrelevant to the spending needs at the time of pay. In addition sales taxes and FICA hits them harder than wealth. Wealth also utilizes the power of one dollar, one vote to impact the tax system to their benefit.

Eliminate every single deduction and institute progressive brackets. Uncap FICA. Eliminate carried interest. Income is income. I don't give a shit if every hedge fund manager runs away. If they want to own things in this country then they have to pay for the system that supports their efforts.

And to answer the OP's question: I will be guided by Jefferson and Andrew Carnegie. Look it up.

(p.s. Glenn, I am self-employed as well. Why should any cost of doing business be deductible? I will take advantage of it because I can which is unrelated to whether or not it should be permitted.)

[JoeMemphis]

They get free land, free buildings, no taxation, PLUS cash. When the Mercedes plant went in, they paid a TON of money, nearly $200 grand PER EMPLOYEE that was hired. So, I'd say YOUR statement is misleading.

I consider it extortion when these companies put a new plant up for bid to the state that will give them the most taxpayer dollars.

I just find it hilarious how you are so keen to increase the taxation of the working class, and so damned defensive about the idea of raising taxes on the wealthy class.

You proposed taxing people based upon the utilization of resources. My point is simply that these safety net programs/entitlement programs are for the benefit of us all. So every taxpayer and employer pays their “fair share”. If you want more, you should be willing to pay more. If you are not then I question your commitment.

Explain what you mean by extortion.