Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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gounion
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

Post by gounion »

carmenjonze wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:08 am Yes, you are a rapist of a 15 year old girl. No wonder you're so defensive of Strom Thurmond (R - States Rights Democratic Party).

That's evidenced not just by this anecdote, but by your attitudes towards this topic, every time it comes up.

IDK what that is supposed to prove.
Okay, here's how I see it. When I was eighteen, you didn't date underage girls. They were known as "jailbait". A fifteen-year-old would have been right out. But underage boys and girls were sure as hell having sex. I was underage when I had sex. We all did.

Our nation is waaaaay too prudish about sex. It's unnatural for people not to have sex when they're bodies are ready.

But when I started dating a girl, her parents could see I was such a stud they immediately got their girls on the pill. :lol: :lol: :lol: Okay, that's just me being a wise-ass. But some parents did get their girls on birth control, or we discussed it and did something before we had sex.

So, to me, fifteen is pretty young for an eighteen-year-old boy. She should be with boys in her age group. But certainly an 18-year-old having consensual sex with a 16 or 17-year-old girl shouldn't be a crime. Now, a 25-year-old man having sex with someone that young IS something that society should strongly frown upon.

The problem in this thread is that Glenn seems to think that there's no possibility that he violently raped these girls, when all the evidence says he did, AND he admitted to doing so.

Just because women dress or act provocatively, doesn't mean they are open to sex with anyone who wants to have sex with them. They have CHOICES, and one should NEVER get a woman drunk or high so she'll have sex with them.

And it's true many men don't agree with that.
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:04 pm Okay, here's how I see it. When I was eighteen, you didn't date underage girls. They were known as "jailbait". A fifteen-year-old would have been right out. But underage boys and girls were sure as hell having sex. I was underage when I had sex. We all did.

Our nation is waaaaay too prudish about sex. It's unnatural for people not to have sex when they're bodies are ready.

But when I started dating a girl, her parents could see I was such a stud they immediately got their girls on the pill. :lol: :lol: :lol: Okay, that's just me being a wise-ass. But some parents did get their girls on birth control, or we discussed it and did something before we had sex.
Not sure if it's actually prudish, in the sense that people are ready to have sex when they're ready. That could be at age 11 or age 21. What Glennfs is talking about is coersion and statutory rape. An 18 year old man having sex with a 15 year old girl is rape due to the issue of consent. Conservative males do not accept the idea of consent.
So, to me, fifteen is pretty young for an eighteen-year-old boy. She should be with boys in her age group. But certainly an 18-year-old having consensual sex with a 16 or 17-year-old girl shouldn't be a crime. Now, a 25-year-old man having sex with someone that young IS something that society should strongly frown upon.

The problem in this thread is that Glenn seems to think that there's no possibility that he violently raped these girls, when all the evidence says he did, AND he admitted to doing so.
Rape by definition is violent. That includes statutory rape, marital rape, and date rape. All of these things are something for Glennfs to joke about.
Just because women dress or act provocatively, doesn't mean they are open to sex with anyone who wants to have sex with them.
There's really no such thing as dressing provocatively. I can be walking down the street in stilettos and fishnets and a leather bustier, or dressing like I normally do in Banana Republic, or be in some schlumpy baggy Dickies pants and an oversize sweatshirt. Doesn't matter.

What Were You Wearing Exhibit - Dove Center
The purpose of this exhibit is to dispel a victim-blaming myth that clothing somehow invites a sexual assault. Victims of crime are not responsible for crimes committed against them. Survivors of rape/sexual assault are often asked, “What were you wearing?” We need to stop asking this. We encourage you to look at these stories and outfits of local survivors to see that clothing is irrelevant when it comes to sexual assault. As you read what these survivors shared, please take a moment to reconsider what may be your own long-held beliefs about sexual assault that are, in reality, myths and stereotypes that can aid perpetrators of crime in avoiding accountability for their choices.
They have CHOICES, and one should NEVER get a woman drunk or high so she'll have sex with them.

And it's true many men don't agree with that.
Yes like colonizers, they believe it's their right to select whatever object they please, whenever they want. If that means drugging them and getting them drunk, that's fine, too.

This is "liberty" and "freedom," to these men.
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gounion
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

Post by gounion »

carmenjonze wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:15 pm Not sure if it's actually prudish, in the sense that people are ready to have sex when they're ready. That could be at age 11 or age 21. What Glennfs is talking about is coersion and statutory rape. An 18 year old man having sex with a 15 year old girl is rape due to the issue of consent. Conservative males do not accept the idea of consent.
I know it is by law, but to me, there ARE such relationships that ARE consensual. The buddy I had at work in the eighties who is now on a sex offender list for the rest of his life was a 21-year-old that had little experience with women, met this girl in a 21 club, and I saw her, she looked old enough to be in the club, and she came on so strong, poor guy didn't have a chance. But she was 16. Her parents were big in the community, and they threw the book at him. He was lucky to stay out of jail.

And he was heartbroken. He really fell for her. He was a really nice guy, and didn't deserve what he got.
There's really no such thing as dressing provocatively. I can be walking down the street in stilettos and fishnets and a leather bustier, or dressing like I normally do in Banana Republic, or be in some schlumpy baggy Dickies pants and an oversize sweatshirt. Doesn't matter.
:lol: :lol: :lol: This kind of makes me giggle, as I'm in Vegas on the strip right now. Many of the women here are dressed, well, I don't know how to say it EXCEPT it's provocative! Haven't seen this much skin away from a beach. And I haven't even went NEAR a pool!

A quite a few times I have said to myself, "You have GOT to be kidding!"

And they have the RIGHT to be dressed as they wish, and I don't have any right to do anything but treat them with dignity and respect.

But I AM a wiseass, and we were waiting at a nice restaurant for our seat to be ready two nights ago, and the staff of women that seated everyone was complaining among themselves about how cold is was in the restaurant. I wanted to say to one of them, "Well, you could CERTAINLY get a bad chest cold!"

But I only thought it. My wife later praised me for keeping my yap shut.
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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gounion wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:30 pm I know it is by law, but to me, there ARE such relationships that ARE consensual. The buddy I had at work in the eighties who is now on a sex offender list for the rest of his life was a 21-year-old that had little experience with women, met this girl in a 21 club, and I saw her, she looked old enough to be in the club, and she came on so strong, poor guy didn't have a chance.
He had a chance.

Men are taught that they don't have any control of their sexuality, but GBTQ people tell a much different story. Gay men and bi men have strict controls over their sexuality every minute of the day, for example.

It can be done, because men do it every day. It's not a matter of desires, it's a matter of entitlement.
But she was 16. Her parents were big in the community, and they threw the book at him. He was lucky to stay out of jail.

And he was heartbroken. He really fell for her. He was a really nice guy, and didn't deserve what he got.
Our society treats hetero men as children who can't control themselves sexually, instead of as adults with moral and ethical responsibilities when it comes to their behaviors. Gay and bi men simply don't have these issues.

Girls are taught as soon as we can walk how to control our own sexuality. Ironically enough, to counteract boys and men who are trained to take whatever they see as soon as they want it.
:lol: :lol: :lol: This kind of makes me giggle, as I'm in Vegas on the strip right now. Many of the women here are dressed, well, I don't know how to say it EXCEPT it's provocative! Haven't seen this much skin away from a beach. And I haven't even went NEAR a pool!

A quite a few times I have said to myself, "You have GOT to be kidding!"

And they have the RIGHT to be dressed as they wish, and I don't have any right to do anything but treat them with dignity and respect.

But I AM a wiseass, and we were waiting at a nice restaurant for our seat to be ready two nights ago, and the staff of women that seated everyone was complaining among themselves about how cold is was in the restaurant. I wanted to say to one of them, "Well, you could CERTAINLY get a bad chest cold!"

But I only thought it. My wife later praised me for keeping my yap shut.
Thing is, sexual assault and rape don't have anything to do with how someone is dressed, which is ultimately what you're saying, as well.
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gounion
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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carmenjonze wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:41 pm He had a chance.

Men are taught that they don't have any control of their sexuality, but GBTQ people tell a much different story. Gay men and bi men have strict controls their sexuality every minute of the day, for example.

It can be done, because men do it every day. It's not a matter of desires, it's a matter of entitlement.
Look, take my word for it in this case. This was a GOOD guy. Old fashioned, but he had little experience with women, he was painfully shy. He was the kinda guy who would date for a month without kissing a girl, let alone tried to have sex. He would be happy with a girl who didn't want to have sex before marriage.

He fell for her, and she was the one to initiate everything. He had NO IDEA she was underage, or he wouldn't have done a thing. When we found out she was underage, I couldn't believe it. She looked FAR older than that.

I felt so bad for him, I don't know if he dated again. I lost track of him when we got laid off, and he never came back when we were called back. It was rough for him, he was on the sexual offender list for life.

He didn't deserve that.
Our society treats men children who can't control themselves instead of as adults.

Girls are taught as soon as we can walk how to control our own sexuality. Ironically enough, to counteract boys and men who are trained to take whatever they see as soon as they want it.
It's always been a double standard. I think our society should allow women to be as sexual, or NOT as sexual, as they wish to be, without being in danger of assault.
Thing is, sexual assault and rape don't have anything to do with how someone is dressed, which is ultimately what you're saying, as well.
YES!
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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gounion wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:51 pm Look, take my word for it in this case. This was a GOOD guy. Old fashioned, but he had little experience with women, he was painfully shy. He was the kinda guy who would date for a month without kissing a girl, let alone tried to have sex. He would be happy with a girl who didn't want to have sex before marriage.

He fell for her, and she was the one to initiate everything. He had NO IDEA she was underage, or he wouldn't have done a thing. When we found out she was underage, I couldn't believe it. She looked FAR older than that.

I felt so bad for him, I don't know if he dated again. I lost track of him when we got laid off, and he never came back when we were called back. It was rough for him, he was on the sexual offender list for life.
Maybe but the point I'm making is you can be on the sidewalk in a leather teddy and thigh-high boots or in the club looking 21 but really 16. Every one of us has been in the club without experience -- again, gay and bi men know how to handle this type of situation whereas it seems cishetero men could really use some pointers.

If he did fall for her, that only means he had the opportunity to get to actually know her, but apparently didn't do some very crucial due dilligence. She was underage, he is not a victim.
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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carmenjonze wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:01 pm Maybe but the point I'm making is you can be on the sidewalk in a leather teddy and thigh-high boots or in the club looking 21 but really 16. Every one of us has been in the club without experience -- again, gay and bi men know how to handle this type of situation whereas it seems cishetero men could really use some pointers.

If he did fall for her, that only means he had the opportunity to get to actually know her, but apparently didn't do some very crucial due dilligence. She was underage, he is not a victim.
Do you think he's deserving of spending the rest of his life on a sexual offender list, keeping him from jobs and other things, since he truly had no reason to believe she was underage?

I don't think so. He was a sweet and naive young man. As I recall, he met her one night at the club, got her phone number and called her the next day, they met at another club, and she invited herself home with him then.

Sure, that's quick but he sure thought he was in love. I mean, he could never stop talking about her. And he wasn't bragging about the sex, it was about HER. Of COURSE he didn't do his "due diligence" - hell, none of us did, by the standards of today.

She seemed to really like him too - but when her parents found out the shit hit the fan. He was never allowed to see her again, and they called the cops.

He's paying for that the rest of his life.
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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gounion wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:14 pm Do you think he's deserving of spending the rest of his life on a sexual offender list, keeping him from jobs and other things, since he truly had no reason to believe she was underage?
Sex offender lists and the way they are used are already problematic, aside from what seems to be the issue here. I'm not a big fan of sex offender lists because they have a history in snagging anyone of non-traditional sexualities.

The people who have really made inroads to dismantling this whole system are sex workers, and I am right there with them. But that's a different issue than what you're talking about.

Point is, gay and bi men have figured out how to navigate this much better than hetero men have, and they've also done so under duress of already being cast as societies' perverts and deflowerers.

If they can do it, so can cis hetero men, so yes, I have sympathy for this person, but it is quite limited.
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

Post by gounion »

carmenjonze wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:25 pm Sex offender lists and the way they are used are already problematic, aside from what seems to be the issue here. I'm not a big fan of sex offender lists because they have a history in snagging anyone of non-traditional sexualities.

The people who have really made inroads to dismantling this whole system are sex workers, and I am right there with them. But that's a different issue than what you're talking about.

Point is, gay and bi men have figured out how to navigate this much better than hetero men have, and they've also done so under duress of already being cast as societies' perverts and deflowerers.

If they can do it, so can cis hetero men, so yes, I have sympathy for this person, but it is quite limited.
Sure it wasn't fair for us entitled white straight males to have it so much better than everyone else. You make a great point, and I wholeheartedly agree.

It's kinda like comedian Chris Rock said - "You white people would NEVER trade places with me - and I'm RICH!"

I'm one of those who realize that I'm unfairly entitled - but in day-to-day life, it's not something I think about - unlike black people who realize that any encounter with a cop can end tragically.
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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gounion wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:40 pm Sure it wasn't fair for us entitled white straight males to have it so much better than everyone else. You make a great point, and I wholeheartedly agree.

It's kinda like comedian Chris Rock said - "You white people would NEVER trade places with me - and I'm RICH!"

I'm one of those who realize that I'm unfairly entitled - but in day-to-day life, it's not something I think about - unlike black people who realize that any encounter with a cop can end tragically.
Well, it's not just the white guys, it really isn't. I have to have this conversation all the time with guys who are like, oh that girl is fast, I didn't know she was 15, she acted like she liked it, she seduced me so I'm the victim, etc., whereas they still support guys like R. Kelly and Drake who are well-known for their pedophilia.

Aretha had it happen to her, too.

Aretha Franklin, Sexual Violence, and the “Culture of Dissemblance” - African American Intellectual History Society

For myself, I'm lucky in that I am one of the few women I have ever known in my life who has not had to deal with sexual violence as a child. It's such a pervasive problem.
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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marindem01 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 5:49 pm You're fucking A right you did. You do not like being called a rapist but is exactly what you are.
Oh but see, that’s impossible.

AP News sez a Black 18 year old is a man.

But white 18 year old is a “teenager.” :problem: :roll:

viewtopic.php?p=25279#p25279
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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If Glennfs were Black and did that at age 18 he’d have a record.

This is a really good example of conservative white males’ expectations and rationalizations that they are to get away with their crimes against humanity. Also how their Black peers of the same exact age are criminalized for the same dirty deeds. :problem:

No wonder why so many of them are dead-set on the government forcing women into childbearing, even in cases of rape and incest. :?

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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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carmenjonze wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:20 pm If Glennfs were Black and did that at age 18 he’d have a record.

This is a really good example of conservative white males’ expectations and rationalizations that they are to get away with their crimes against humanity. Also how their Black peers of the same exact age are criminalized for the same dirty deeds. :problem:

No wonder why so many of them are dead-set on the government forcing women into childbearing, even in cases of rape and incest. :?

#smallergovernment
#limitedgovernment
#prolife
#profamily

How could that be we broke no Ohio laws in 1977.
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carmenjonze wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:45 pm Oh but see, that’s impossible.

AP News sez a Black 18 year old is a man.

But white 18 year old is a “teenager.” :problem: :roll:

viewtopic.php?p=25279#p25279
That is true it does happen more to blacks than whites but, it does happen to both.

It even happens here from time to time. It seems posters use whatever adjective fits their opinion best.
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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Glennfs wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:08 am How could that be we broke no Ohio laws in 1977.
White 18 year old males are still cast as teenagers, Black 18 year olds are still cast as men, and you still fall for narratives of negro crime. Makes a great rationale to support state-sponsored killing in the form of te death penalty, also biased against African Americans.
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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Glennfs wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:10 am That is true it does happen more to blacks than whites but, ...
... but as long as sentencing, time served, and the death penalty are also skewed in favor of so-called whites and criminalize & kill "blacks," you're fine with these conditions remaining as they are in perpetuity.

It's why guys like you are pro-death penalty, in the first place.

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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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carmenjonze wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:26 am ... but as long as sentencing, time served, and the death penalty are also skewed in favor of so-called whites and criminalize & kill "blacks," you're fine with these conditions remaining as they are in perpetuity.

It's why guys like you are pro-death penalty, in the first place.

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As for time served that is skewed towards nobody. I have several friends family members and acquaintance who have been through the system
How it works is you get arrested
They lock you up in country
You get a bail number you can't make
6 weeks or so later you plead guilty to a lesser charge and go home with time served
It is far from perfect but I have yet to meet a person who went through the system who was opposed

Here is why

If you made bail you would be out 3 to 6 months before trial
Then after you get found guilty you would have to serve your time. Let's say 6 months.
That disrupts your life for a year or more.

As opposed to serving 6 weeks to maybe 3 months then going home.

Finally when this happens it is usually a lsser crime. Usually involving drugs to one degree or another
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Glennfs wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:37 am As for time served that is skewed towards nobody.
Sure it isn't. And it never has been, either. Nor have you personally bought into the centuries-old WS myth of negro crime, or ever benefitted from generations of whites-first/whites-rule laws and customs.

After all, 18 year old whites are teenagers and 18 year old blacks are men. Makes perfect logical sense. :?
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Re: Wealthy white kid rapes 4 underage girls, gets probation

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carmenjonze wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:39 am Sure it isn't. And it never has been, either. Nor have you personally bought into the centuries-old WS myth of negro crime, or ever benefitted from generations of whites-first/whites-rule laws and customs.

After all, 18 year old whites are teenagers and 18 year old blacks are men. Makes perfect logical sense. :?
It truly doesn't. Every person I've known who were arrested for a non violent crime and there are many have gone the time served route.
Unless ot was a repeat offense where they were going to get actual prison time. Even in those cases thet served as much time in country as possible. In order to shorten their time in big stoney lonesome.

Now if black people are being arrested at a higher rate than white people then you would be correct. I believe that they are and of course that would lead to more time served cases.
Finally I agree with you to a certain extent that black people especially young blacks get arrested and put in the system for minor crimes that many whites get off the hook for.
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