2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

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gounion
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2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

1st one Aug 23, 2023. Eight candidates qualified so far.

I’m predicting Trump won’t attend ANY of the debates.

Question for our conservatives: Why are they forcing the other candidates to sign a loyalty oath to attend, when Donald Trump is refusing to do so?
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:00 pm 1st one Aug 23, 2023. Eight candidates qualified so far.

I’m predicting Trump won’t attend ANY of the debates.

Question for our conservatives: Why are they forcing the other candidates to sign a loyalty oath to attend, when Donald Trump is refusing to do so?
Because they are trying to win the senate and keep the house.
If Trump is the nominee they know he will lose. If the democratic party has unchecked power that would be almost as bad for our country as a Trump win.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:57 pm Because they are trying to win the senate and keep the house.
If Trump is the nominee they know he will lose. If the democratic party has unchecked power that would be almost as bad for our country as a Trump win.
That doesn’t make sense. The only reason for the loyalty oath is for these people to support Donald Trump as the nominee.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:04 pm That doesn’t make sense. The only reason for the loyalty oath is for these people to support Donald Trump as the nominee.
Because if they come out and oppose Trump most Trump voters will not vote for them.
I believe it is more of a don't badmouth Trump than a loyalty pledge
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 6:07 pm Because if they come out and oppose Trump most Trump voters will not vote for them.
I believe it is more of a don't badmouth Trump than a loyalty pledge
Okay, that's just asinine.

You want Republicans to sign a loyaty oath so they must support Trump when he wins the nomination.

There is absolutely no logic to that whatsoever.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 6:10 pm Okay, that's just asinine.

You want Republicans to sign a loyaty oath so they must support Trump when he wins the nomination.

There is absolutely no logic to that whatsoever.
You are just closed-minded to anything thar doesn't fit your template
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gounion
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 6:15 pm You are just closed-minded to anything thar doesn't fit your template
I don't believe in loyalty oaths in America. You know, freedom and all that.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Bludogdem »

Loyalty oaths are quite common for government officers, employees and military personnel. Seems appropriate.

I think a political party loyalty oath is a bad idea. I’m sure there are other instances where it’s a bad idea.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 7:30 pm Loyalty oaths are quite common for government officers, employees and military personnel. Seems appropriate.

I think a political party loyalty oath is a bad idea. I’m sure there are other instances where it’s a bad idea.
No, you take an oath to our nation.

You take oaths when you have a personality cult. This is all shit that Hitler started and you say it's a good fucking idea.

Oath of Loyalty for All State Officials as of August 14, 1919:
“I swear loyalty to the Constitution, obedience to the law, and conscientious fulfillment of the duties of my office, so help me God.”
[Translated from Reichsgesetzblatt I, 1919, pp. 1419-1420.]

Oath of Loyalty for All State Officials as of August 20, 1934:
“I swear I will be true and obedient to the Führer of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler, observe the law, and conscientiously fulfill the duties of my office, so help me God.” 9
[Translated from Reichsgesetzblatt I, 1934, p. 785.]
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:43 am No, you take an oath to our nation.

You take oaths when you have a personality cult. This is all shit that Hitler started and you say it's a good fucking idea.

Oath of Loyalty for All State Officials as of August 14, 1919:
“I swear loyalty to the Constitution, obedience to the law, and conscientious fulfillment of the duties of my office, so help me God.”
[Translated from Reichsgesetzblatt I, 1919, pp. 1419-1420.]

Oath of Loyalty for All State Officials as of August 20, 1934:
“I swear I will be true and obedient to the Führer of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler, observe the law, and conscientiously fulfill the duties of my office, so help me God.” 9
[Translated from Reichsgesetzblatt I, 1934, p. 785.]
You can’t even understand a post as simple as mine. You truly are pathetic.
gounion
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:13 am You can’t even understand a post as simple as mine. You truly are pathetic.
Loyalty oaths are for personality cults. That isn’t American.

Want to show us in history when American political parties demanded loyalty oaths?
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

Trump will skip the first debate for a one-on-one with Tucker Carlson on his podcast.

On "X" formally known as Twitter.

Does Trump realize most of his faithful don't even USE Twitter? That even if they WANTED to watch him instead of the debate, they couldn't. The Debate is on national cable, and most people DO have access to Fox News. They won't be watching him live. They'll be watching the Trumpless debate.

And it seems to me he's making a big mistake. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/1 ... r-00111948
Donald Trump wants to deprive his competitors of any oxygen. That’s why the former president is likely skipping next week’s debate in Milwaukee.

But it probably won’t work.

As presidential primaries have become more national in scope, debates have arguably been all that’s really mattered in the run-up to the early states. Candidates like Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich, Ben Carson and Pete Buttigieg surged in the polls after strong showings.

And Fred Thompson, Rick Perry and Beto O’Rourke stand as cautionary tales of hyped-up candidates who bombed on stage and saw their campaigns crumble months before voting even began.

The proof is in the numbers: Much of the movement in recent primary fights has been marked in time by the nationally televised debates. Candidates sink or swim based on their debate performances — and the first debate has often been the catalyst for the first real changes in those races.
Watch the GOP debate like a pro

Even if Trump doesn’t show, the debates will still command larger audiences than anything else the candidates will do over the next six months. So it’s an unparalleled opportunity for those seeking their breakthrough moment, like Tim Scott, Nikki Haley or Vivek Ramaswamy. And the peril for a once-hyped hopeful like Ron DeSantis if he doesn’t deliver is real.

Yes, Trump has a huge lead in the national polling at this stage — far larger than any of the six primaries we examine below — and a slightly-smaller-but-still-commanding advantage in the early states. But if he’s serious about skipping the debate, he risks being upstaged.
Yeah, Donald, go and give Tucker some love, he's pretty much off everyone's radar and forgotten. And you won't be able to brag about your ratings. It'll be funny to watch.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Number6 »

gounion wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 8:23 am Trump will skip the first debate for a one-on-one with Tucker Carlson on his podcast.

On "X" formally known as Twitter.

Does Trump realize most of his faithful don't even USE Twitter? That even if they WANTED to watch him instead of the debate, they couldn't. The Debate is on national cable, and most people DO have access to Fox News. They won't be watching him live. They'll be watching the Trumpless debate.

And it seems to me he's making a big mistake. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/1 ... r-00111948



Yeah, Donald, go and give Tucker some love, he's pretty much off everyone's radar and forgotten. And you won't be able to brag about your ratings. It'll be funny to watch.
Interesting article but it's analyzing what we'd consider "normal" primary debates. However, the problem I see with the candidates, other than TFG, is this is an opportunity for the candidates to attack TFG without TFG being able to respond immediately. The only republican candidate I've seen willing to attack TFG outright is Christie. Right now, except for Christie, the other candidates are afraid of criticizing TFG because if they win the nomination there's a chance they'll lose TFG's supporters in the general election. Failure to be willing to criticize TFG or to at least disagree with him makes them appear weak and republicans only like candidates who appear "strong." By sitting out the debate, TFG is letting the rest of the group form a circular firing squad while he'll make more news with Tucker's interview. TFG has all the upside advantages of not showing up.
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ProfX
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by ProfX »

So look who will be center stage at the debate tonight, next to dePutin. (Not Trump, as we know). He's now #3 in polls.

Vivek Ramaswamy suggests ‘the truth’ about 9/11 is still unknown
The Republican presidential candidate initially said he had been misquoted by The Atlantic, which later released an audio clip of his interview showing he was quoted accurately.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-e ... rcna101264

[snip]

“I think it is legitimate to say how many police, how many federal agents, were on the planes that hit the Twin Towers. Maybe the answer is zero. It probably is zero for all I know, right? I have no reason to think it was anything other than zero. But if we’re doing a comprehensive assessment of what happened on 9/11, we have a 9/11 commission, absolutely that should be an answer the public knows the answer to,” Ramaswamy told the reporter, John Hendrickson.

[snip][end]

Msr., I can tell you this is easily knowable. The flight manifests of everyone on all 4 flights has been released. You most definitely can find out how many government agents were on each flight. It is not something the government is hiding.

He says the interview misrepresents his position; except this is not the first time he has claimed the government is concealing some "truth" about 9/11 it won't reveal to people.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Toonces »

I think of Ramaswamy as "If Elon Musk ran for president"
gounion
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

I don't usually like watching debates. The causal lies from the right really piss me off. But my wife wanted to see it, so we watched all but the last half hour. She couldn't take it any more.

I think the GOP hurt themselves with regular voters. The moderators rightly pointed out that the abortion issue was really hurting the GOP, and would likely be a major issue the Dems would use against them next year, but they all had to double down on HELL YEAH they were going to outlaw abortion nationwide. Of course, Mike Pence came off the worst, his god told him to outlaw abortion, so his god should rule the nation.

Then, they had a young man who made a video question about climate change, something that young voters are VERY concerned about, which was very thoughtful and smart. Of course, the candidates all ran away from it in their denialism, with Vivek Ramaswamy screaming that it's a HOAX!

They gave the Dems all the video they need for next year's election up and down the ballot.

But, it was interesting to see, from a pure debate perspective, how they all did. First, DeSantis was HORRID. He screamed all his answers, and was as wooden and robotic as could be. No one even bothered to mention him, he was just not a factor at all. It's true that the more people know DeSantis, the more they reject him.

Vivek Ramaswamy has decided to be Donald Trump, accusing everyone else on stage of being bought, and wanting to attack and argue with everyone. I found him to be buffoonish. Christie got the best dig at him pointing out he'd cribbed his opening line from Barack Obama. But he got back at Christie later when he said Christie's campaign was just about Donald Trump.

Tim Scott was a non-entity. I found it interesting at the beginning, when everyone was being introduced, Christie and Hutchinson were booed, but Tim Scott, while not being booed, got very little applause, which was telling. He said nothing to stand out at all.

The winners, IMHO (not my favorite people at all, but the ones that did stand out) were Mike Pence and Nikki Haley.

Mike Pence gave a strong and passionate speech about standing up for the Constitution on January 6th. I've said that, although Mike Pence has no business being President, he deserves a Medal of Freedom for what he did on Jan. 6th. He also laid the wood to Vivek Ramaswamy about Putin and Russia.

And that's also where Nikki Haley stood out, on foreign policy. Her strong and combative responses to the silliness of Ramaswamy about Putin and Russia seemed to come from a sincere and heartfelt place in her, and I believed her - something I never thought I would have said about her.

But overall, it was just another Fox News shitshow, with the "moderators" losing all control over both the candidates and the crowd. It gave no one any reason for vote for any of these loons.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by ProfX »

The one moment I will note is when they were all asked if they would still support Trump as the nominee if he was convicted on criminal charges, only Asa Hutchinson and Chris Christie refused to raise their hand. I understand they had to sign the loyalty pledge to participate, but we've never had the asterisk before (*) not if the nominee is a federal felon.

Miami Mayor Francis Suarez did not make the cut. I wonder if he will keep his word and drop out of the race. :D

Look, I am not a Christie fan, especially of his own thuggish behavior, but he was also the only one with the cojones to say that even if he wasn't convicted, what Trump did was beneath the level of conduct we should expect from a POTUS.

As for Ramaswamy, yeah, he reminds me a lot of Trump, except he's articulate and intelligent, but he's basically running a "I'm your MAGA guy without his baggage" campaign. Arrogant techbro with no political experience runs a right-populist campaign, film at 11.

DePutin really did nothing to stand out. I don't expect this to move the primary polls a lot, but we'll see.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Number6 »

So, who do you think won the debate?

Okay, I have an answer and it will surprise you.

It was Kamala Harris! All of the republican candidates know TFG is going to win the nomination unless, for some reason, a number of states refuse to allow TFG from appearing on their state's ballot. But that's not much of a possibility, IMO. So they're really running for VP and their performance last night showed they're lightweights. In a general election, about the only one who could possibly come close to taking Harris on is Haley and she's a bit wishy-washy.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

I'm betting none of our conservatives watched the debate - because the guy they're voting for wasn't there.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:25 pm I'm betting none of our conservatives watched the debate - because the guy they're voting for wasn't there.
Or maybe we have a life and politics isn't our hobby.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 1:18 pm Or maybe we have a life and politics isn't our hobby.
Then why do you come to this board?

And don't tell me you don't watch TV.

You just have to make excuses up and we all know that's all they are. You don't care about the rest, because you know who YOU support, and he wasn't on TV last night.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 1:21 pm Then why do you come to this board?

And don't tell me you don't watch TV.

You just have to make excuses up and we all know that's all they are. You don't care about the rest, because you know who YOU support, and he wasn't on TV last night.
Let's review last night I drove from Louisville Kentucky to Kansas City Kansas from 730pm until 4am

Today I am driving from KCKS to Denver from around 6pm until around 4am

Politics is your fantasy football your The Ohio State football your Cleveland Indians baseball
It is your hobby. While I enjoy keeping up with Politics and staying informed unlike you I am not obsessed with politics.

Sidebar I am not putting you down and there certainly isn't anything wrong with being obsessed with politics. Just pointing out the facts.

Had I been home the last thing on my agenda would be to watch that debate as opposed to spending an evening with my wife or grandson or friends
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 1:28 pm Let's review last night I drove from Louisville Kentucky to Kansas City Kansas from 730pm until 4am

Today I am driving from KCKS to Denver from around 6pm until around 4am

Politics is your fantasy football your The Ohio State football your Cleveland Indians baseball
It is your hobby. While I enjoy keeping up with Politics and staying informed unlike you I am not obsessed with politics.

Sidebar I am not putting you down and there certainly isn't anything wrong with being obsessed with politics. Just pointing out the facts.

Had I been home the last thing on my agenda would be to watch that debate as opposed to spending an evening with my wife or grandson or friends
You are obsessed with whatever Trump tells you to obsessed with. You run here to spew his talking points. You, like Joe, are obsessed with Hunter Biden.

It’s hilarious to see.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by bird »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:57 pm Because they are trying to win the senate and keep the house.
If Trump is the nominee they know he will lose. If the Republican party has unchecked power that would be almost as bad for our country as a Trump win.
Fixed it for you.

You have been asked multiple times to list what legislation proposed by Democratic politicians would be so bad and are socialist and you have yet to provide any.

Do the entire country a favor and stop voting.
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Re: 2024 Presidential GOP Primary Debate Thread

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 1:59 pm You are obsessed with whatever Trump tells you to obsessed with. You run here to spew his talking points. You, like Joe, are obsessed with Hunter Biden.

It’s hilarious t
So did you watch it alone or did tyoy have a watch party with a group of friends
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
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