Nat'l Champ coach Jim Harbaugh sez college players should unionizeVi

[gounion]

Via The Hill: https://thehill.com/homenews/education/ ... nship-nil/

University of Michigan head football coach Jim Harbaugh suggested that college athletes should unionize after his team won the national championship on Monday night.

“The thing I would change about college football is, to let the talent share in the ever-increasing revenues,” Harbaugh said at a press conference Tuesday. “We’re all robbing the same train and the ones that are in the position to do the heavy lifting, the ones that risk life and limb out there on a football field are the players and not just, not just football players, student athletes.”

Harbaugh and the Wolverines defeated the University of Washington Huskies 34-13 Monday night to take the national title.

The coach also went after others involved in the business of college athletics, including the schools, conferences and the NCAA for their reaping of benefits from the system.

“For a long time, people say that unionizing would be bad,” Harbaugh said. “If people aren’t gonna do it, if they’re not gonna do it out of their own goodwill, and do what’s right, I mean, that’s probably the next step.”

Debate continues over how college football and other sports should handle players’ recent ability to monetize their name, image and likeness (NIL). Lawmakers have generally agreed that new NIL reforms and regulations are needed, but they so far have not come together on what that should look like.

Yup.

[Glennfs]

So should they get a union ran by organized crime or one ran by socialist to represent them.

[gounion]

So should they get a union ran by organized crime or one ran by socialist to represent them.

Translation: “I wish it was like it was - when the players got nothing and everyone else got rich”.

Harbaugh has a point.

[ZoWie]

College football as socialism. Now I know the term "socialism" has lost all meaning.

College football is the most capitalist institution ever devised. They pay the kids' way through school, and the NFL gets a cheap/free farm system. The alumni want to stay in touch with the U, but they don't care what discoveries the physics department has made, or who the president of the school is, they only care about the won-loss record of the football coach. They want to be sitting in a bowl game on New Year's Day. They pay through the nose for the privilege, and love every minute of it.

Where I went, the TAs unionized, though well after I graduated. Actually I was a camera TA in the movie school, and it wasn't all that bad a job, but then I didn't have to sit down and read 300 bad essays comparing and contrasting the IWW with the AFL/CIO. People shot their finals in my classes. I know bad lighting when I see it. Still, I can see having a union, even if it means (like at UCLA) that basically you get a UAW card.

College football players are essentially the same kind of workers as TAs. They perform some task for the school, and get a break on tuition and other favors. I can see a union here. Otherwise they're meat on a stick just like any athlete without representation.

[bradman]

Can i add the term "conversation" to a list of words that seem to have lost all meaning?

[bradman]

Can i add the term "conversation" to a list of words that seem to have lost all meaning?

[edit] Sorry, my mistake. i meant "discussion".

[JoeMemphis]

[edit] Sorry, my mistake. i meant "discussion".

I will only comment that on a few years, college football, basketball and baseball will have little to nothing to do with the school or education. The bowl games have already been greatly diminished. I would suggest that the various schools just license their names to the teams and allow them to play on campus. If the athlete wants an education, he can enroll and pay tuition like everyone else. No more student athletes. Just athletes that may be students. Just another semi pro league.

[gounion]

I will only comment that on a few years, college football, basketball and baseball will have little to nothing to do with the school or education. The bowl games have already been greatly diminished. I would suggest that the various schools just license their names to the teams and allow them to play on campus. If the athlete wants an education, he can enroll and pay tuition like everyone else. No more student athletes. Just athletes that may be students. Just another semi pro league.

I agree completely.

[ZoWie]

For once I agree with Joe. I know from being close to it that college football is essentially a business, and it makes a joke out of the university system which is supposed to be about education, not putting on a show for the rest of the country. Also the system is in serious imbalance due to favoritism in TV scheduling, and you can ask anyone with the slightest connection to the sport and they'll agree that's what really went wrong. A few big guns get all the money and TV coverage, and keep getting bigger.

The NFL has a draft to even things out. College football has rich alumni who recruit. The rich get richer.

[JoeMemphis]

For once I agree with Joe. I know from being close to it that college football is essentially a business, and it makes a joke out of the university system which is supposed to be about education, not putting on a show for the rest of the country. Also the system is in serious imbalance due to favoritism in TV scheduling, and you can ask anyone with the slightest connection to the sport and they'll agree that's what really went wrong. A few big guns get all the money and TV coverage, and keep getting bigger.

The NFL has a draft to even things out. College football has rich alumni who recruit. The rich get richer.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying it’s a good thing. It’s not. But it is how things are trending and I think that’s where it will end up. I’m just hoping we can keep these folks out of high school sports and hoping they will leave the rest of college athletics alone.

What I expect we will see is that most of these athletes will make a little money in the minors and then will get tossed aside. Hopefully they will put enough money aside for that time when it comes. Maybe have something to live on while developing a skill.

[gounion]

Well, any actual conservative would be in favor of a person that has a skill that people are willing to pay to watch, to be able to profit off his fame. The days when everybody BUT the players are getting rich are over, and that's a good thing. They should get paid for their labor, and be able to negotiate what pay they get.

The NCAA has ruined college athletics because they worked so damned hard to refuse to pay the players, while they get rich themselves.

It got so bad the Supreme Court had to take the system down.

[Glennfs]

Well, any actual conservative would be in favor of a person that has a skill that people are willing to pay to watch, to be able to profit off his fame. The days when everybody BUT the players are getting rich are over, and that's a good thing. They should get paid for their labor, and be able to negotiate what pay they get.

The NCAA has ruined college athletics because they worked so damned hard to refuse to pay the players, while they get rich themselves.

It got so bad the Supreme Court had to take the system down.

You are 100pct correct about the NCAA. Had they put in an NIL type system they could have regulated and controlled it.
The current system is the wild west and is going to help a few as many players are staying in college an extra year. Because NIL money is close to 5th round or later money.
But
It is going to ruin many more lives. As young men suddenly get 100's of 1000's of dollars and some millions tossed in their lap with no guidance.

Imagine what you would have don6if at age 18 you suddenly were given a quarter of a million. It would have been a recipe for disaster for me and probably for you also

[gounion]

You are 100pct correct about the NCAA. Had they put in an NIL type system they could have regulated and controlled it.
The current system is the wild west and is going to help a few as many players are staying in college an extra year. Because NIL money is close to 5th round or later money.
But
It is going to ruin many more lives. As young men suddenly get 100's of 1000's of dollars and some millions tossed in their lap with no guidance.

Imagine what you would have don6if at age 18 you suddenly were given a quarter of a million. It would have been a recipe for disaster for me and probably for you also

It’s not for YOU to decide, Glenn.

It’s the same if a rich father gave all his money to his kids. It ruins many of their lives. But you say he can do what he wants with his money.

Why are you arguing against capitalism? I mean, child stars have often had rough lives because of their young fame. That’s life in a capitalist system.

But the system is changing already. Boosters of some universities are pooling their money and paying ALL the players on a team, not just the stars. Gee, they should pay the coaches too, then, right? Why make the university pay anything?

[Number6]

Well, any actual conservative would be in favor of a person that has a skill that people are willing to pay to watch, to be able to profit off his fame. The days when everybody BUT the players are getting rich are over, and that's a good thing. They should get paid for their labor, and be able to negotiate what pay they get.

The NCAA has ruined college athletics because they worked so damned hard to refuse to pay the players, while they get rich themselves.

It got so bad the Supreme Court had to take the system down.

Colleges made tons of money off their sports programs via television contracts but the student athletes basically got nothing. Now, student athletes can make money endorsing products. There's one local college play in San Diego doing that. I have no problem with him/them doing that. As I've said before college football is used by the NFL as a farm system for future players. At least Major League Baseball teams actually have a farm system where they pay their players developing them for the future.

[Glennfs]

It’s not for YOU to decide, Glenn.

It’s the same if a rich father gave all his money to his kids. It ruins many of their lives. But you say he can do what he wants with his money.

Why are you arguing against capitalism? I mean, child stars have often had rough lives because of their young fame. That’s life in a capitalist system.

But the system is changing already. Boosters of some universities are pooling their money and paying ALL the players on a team, not just the stars. Gee, they should pay the coaches too, then, right? Why make the university pay anything?

So you believe that if you personally had 250k dropped on you at 18 you wouldn't have effed up.

I know I would have.

[Glennfs]

Colleges made tons of money off their sports programs via television contracts but the student athletes basically got nothing. Now, student athletes can make money endorsing products. There's one local college play in San Diego doing that. I have no problem with him/them doing that. As I've said before college football is used by the NFL as a farm system for future players. At least Major League Baseball teams actually have a farm system where they pay their players developing them for the future.

Well they did get a free college education. But they were exploited.
As for getting paid for endorsements technically that is true.
But for the most part it is just boosters now paying players legally.
I still believe that it would be much better if the athletes had better structure around the money. These guys are going to wind up like lottery winners who piss away the money.

[gounion]

So you believe that if you personally had 250k dropped on you at 18 you wouldn't have effed up.

I know I would have.

And it’s none of your business. How fucking paternalistic of you.

[Glennfs]

And it’s none of your business. How fucking paternalistic of you.

What an a hole you are

So is 17pct to high
If true will you believe Willis is corrupt
Do you have the balls to give a straight answer to either question

[Glennfs]

Colleges made tons of money off their sports programs via television contracts but the student athletes basically got nothing. Now, student athletes can make money endorsing products. There's one local college play in San Diego doing that. I have no problem with him/them doing that. As I've said before college football is used by the NFL as a farm system for future players. At least Major League Baseball teams actually have a farm system where they pay their players developing them for the future.

Here is a link to the NIL values

https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/player/nil-100/

[gounion]

What an a hole you are

So us 17pct to high
If true will you believe Willis is corrupt
Do you have the balls to give a straight answer to either question

As usual, you’re trolling. There are other threads for your accusations. Try to fucking keep up.

This is NOTHING to do with this thread. I guess that’s what you do when you can’t win a debate to save your life.

[Glennfs]

As usual, you’re trolling. There are other threads for your accusations. Try to fucking keep up.

This is NOTHING to do with this thread. I guess that’s what you do when you can’t win a debate to save your life.

I am not trolling you are the one who loves calling people gutless worms. While you don't have the balls to answer to very easy questions.

But you go ahead and get your poor little feelings hurt. Just don't be asking me or Joe Memphis any questions until you grow a pair of balls.

[gounion]

Well they did get a free college education. But they were exploited.
As for getting paid for endorsements technically that is true.
But for the most part it is just boosters now paying players legally.
I still believe that it would be much better if the athletes had better structure around the money. These guys are going to wind up like lottery winners who piss away the money.

Why are athletes not free Americans who can do as they wish with their money? I mean, that's extremely paternalistic of you.

[Glennfs]

Why are athletes not free Americans who can do as they wish with their money? I mean, that's extremely paternalistic of you.

OK let's play let's pretend
Let's pretend that giving an 18 year old between 250k and a million will not bring negative results.

Let's pretend that giving them that money with no guidance or restrictions is a much better idea than paying it in a structured annuity over a 20 to 30 year period of time

Let's pretend that 18 year olds who come from middle class families or less will be able to handle sudden wealth.

Let's pretend that had you or I received that much money when we were 18 that it wouldn't have resulted in a bad ending.

[gounion]

OK let's play let's pretend
Let's pretend that giving an 18 year old between 250k and a million will not bring negative results.

Let's pretend that giving them that money with no guidance or restrictions is a much better idea than paying it in a structured annuity over a 20 to 30 year period of time

Let's pretend that 18 year olds who come from middle class families or less will be able to handle sudden wealth.

Let's pretend that had you or I received that much money when we were 18 that it wouldn't have resulted in a bad ending.

Let’s pretend it’s any of YOUR business.

Only the already rich deserve money, right?

[Glennfs]

Let’s pretend it’s any of YOUR business.

Only the already rich deserve money, right?

When was the last time you actually won a discussion?
Let's review
You want to give 18 year old athletes millions with no guidance or restrictions

I want to give 18 year old athletes millions spread out over 2 or more decades structured in a manner where they are less likely to piss it away or get in trouble.

And you come up with some ridiculous comment about the rich. The people you consider enemies of the state. Who will be dealt with once your glorious cause is successful