Boeing

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bradman
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Boeing

Post by bradman »

https://www.yahoo.com/news/faa-investig ... 36095.html
The New York Times
FAA Investigates Claims by Boeing Whistleblower About Flaws in 787 Dreamliner
WASHINGTON — The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating claims made by a Boeing engineer who says that sections of the fuselage of the 787 Dreamliner are improperly fastened together and could break apart mid-flight after thousands of trips.
+Farming it out...
Salehpour, whose resume says he has worked at Boeing for more than a decade, said the problems with fastening the sections came about as a result of changes in how the enormous sections were fitted and fastened together in the manufacturing assembly line. The fuselages for the plane come in several pieces, all from different manufacturers, and they are not exactly the same shape where they fit together, he said.
+
Boeing has also confronted a slew of problems at its plant in South Carolina where the Dreamliner is built. A prominent Boeing whistleblower who raised concerns about manufacturing practices at the plant, John Barnett, was found dead last month with what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
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Toonces
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Re: Boeing

Post by Toonces »

A Boeing whistle blower, aka Dead Man Walking.
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ZoWie
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Re: Boeing

Post by ZoWie »

Boeing is a dead company walking if nothing changes.
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Toonces
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Re: Boeing

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ZoWie wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:12 am Boeing is a dead company walking if nothing changes.
Is there anyone to fill any void if Boeing were to disappear? There are quite several plane manufacturers, but only Boeing and Airbus are the ones making large passenger airplanes.
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Number6
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Re: Boeing

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Toonces wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:01 pm Is there anyone to fill any void if Boeing were to disappear? There are quite several plane manufacturers, but only Boeing and Airbus are the ones making large passenger airplanes.
What will probably happen is Boeing will be hit with a big fine but not one that will put them out of business. The U.S. needs Boeing because the make helicopters for the Army.
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Re: Boeing

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:40 am What will probably happen is Boeing will be hit with a big fine but not one that will put them out of business. The U.S. needs Boeing because the make helicopters for the Army.
And the fine will be passed along to consumers
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Re: Boeing

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:14 am And the fine will be passed along to consumers
Then how should the company be punished for lives lost? For the corruption and coverup?
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Re: Boeing

Post by gounion »

Toonces wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:01 pm Is there anyone to fill any void if Boeing were to disappear? There are quite several plane manufacturers, but only Boeing and Airbus are the ones making large passenger airplanes.
Were Boeing to collapse - it would be bought out by another company and things would continue, most likely.

It’s how the free market works in theory and somewhat in practice. If one company fails, others fill the void.

Worst thing this nation did was allow the Boeing/McDonnell Douglas merger. We need competition, but funny how the right doesn’t believe so.
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Re: Boeing

Post by bird »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:14 am And the fine will be passed along to consumers
Well, yes and no. Number of planes vs number of passengers would make any attempted cost increase to passengers pretty small.

That being said you bring up a good point.

During the Great Recession Eric Holder, iirc, penned a memo regarding collateral damage were financial institutions held criminally responsible. Top management in large corporations appear to enjoy the benefits of their positions including large compensation packages to “lure” or “retain” them which also “golden parachutes”. In essence, they need not fear anything thus if things go awry they do not suffer. The time has come to eliminate that. No Golden parachutes, stock options frozen for 5-10 years after leaving, and, finally, elimination of limited liability especially criminal liability. If top management gets the fruits of success done by those below them then they are and must be responsible for the failures as well including criminal liability.

Boeing needs to have new management and their existing management needs to be investigated. The same applies to airlines regarding in-house or outsourced maintenance.
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Re: Boeing

Post by gounion »

Funny how Glenn says fines and increased worker salaries are inflationary, but somehow billion-dollar salary packages to CEOs isn’t.
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Re: Boeing

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:34 am Funny how Glenn says fines and increased worker salaries are inflationary, but somehow billion-dollar salary packages to CEOs isn’t.
Show me a ceo who receives a billion dollar salary package.
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ZoWie
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Re: Boeing

Post by ZoWie »

Change "salary" to "compensation package" and you'll have a whole bunch of CEO's on that list.
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ZoWie
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Re: Boeing

Post by ZoWie »

Whistleblowers are testifying before a Senate committee. It's being covered by Nooz outlets that don't have marching orders to do all drumpf all the time. Boeing is in very deep doodoo.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us- ... n=BBCS_BBC
Witness Ed Pierson says the FAA "needs to get in the game" and more thoroughly inspect Boeing's safety protocols.

Senator Blumenthal replies that the committee has reached out to the FAA and wants them to send regulators to testify.

He notes that the FAA "have issued a scathing report, reporting the finding of an expert panel's review of Boeing's management practices".

He says the report identified "a lack of awareness of safety-related metrics at all levels of the organisation".
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Re: Boeing

Post by ZoWie »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68834525
A Boeing engineer told US lawmakers that he was harassed and threatened after he raised concerns about the safety of the company's planes.

Whistleblower Sam Salehpour said Wednesday that his boss berated him in a 40-minute call and his tyre was punctured by a nail.

[...]

Mr Salehpour, who has worked at Boeing for 17 years, said he had raised concerns about alleged manufacturing shortcuts repeatedly over three years starting in 2020, only to be told "to shut up".

"I was ignored, I was told not to create delays," he said, adding that he was later transferred to a different role. "This is not a safety culture, where you get threatened [for] bringing issues."
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Toonces
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Re: Boeing

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I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that a manufacturer would take shortcuts.
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Re: Boeing

Post by ZoWie »

It gets better. One of the Senate witnesses described scenes of workers in the assembly plant jumping up and down on fuselage parts from other factories, to make them fit properly.
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Re: Boeing

Post by gounion »

ZoWie wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 11:29 am It gets better. One of the Senate witnesses described scenes of workers in the assembly plant jumping up and down on fuselage parts from other factories, to make them fit properly.
It’s called “beat and bash to fit”. You can bet your ass the ONLY way that they did that was under direct orders from management.

Building airplanes is far different than building cars. If a car breaks down wile being operated, the driver can normally stop the car safely. If an airplane breaks down in the air, people often die.

My step-dad would be truly saddened to see the company he proudly worked at and retired from has sunk so low.
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Toonces
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Re: Boeing

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Profits need to be maximized. Employees are expected to produce results. Employees aren't given the proper tools to complete the jobs, and they know if they complain then management will just find someone else who won't complain, to do the job. Unions can make this more difficult of course, but when someone becomes part of the union they lose all motivation to do a good job, they no longer take pride in their work.

When I worked as a member of a union, I always took pride in doing a good job. I cared about the quality of my work. Maybe the union hated me for that.

Now, I'm mostly retired and my "coworkers" are cats, and they're definitely management.
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ZoWie
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Re: Boeing

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Quality matters in motion picture unions. The effect there is that every job on a set becomes very compartmentalized and you practically need a scorecard to know who to ask for what. However the unions all have training programs and they enforce rigorous quality standards, as one would expect in a business where mistakes are nearly as expensive and sometimes nearly as deadly as they are in building airplanes.
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Glennfs
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Re: Boeing

Post by Glennfs »

ZoWie wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:22 am Quality matters in motion picture unions. The effect there is that every job on a set becomes very compartmentalized and you practically need a scorecard to know who to ask for what. However the unions all have training programs and they enforce rigorous quality standards, as one would expect in a business where mistakes are nearly as expensive and sometimes nearly as deadly as they are in building airplanes.

I understand cutting corners but not when it comes to air travel. Talk about killing the Golden Goose.
As for your take on motion picture unions. I don't know how it is today but in the middle 70s at American car factories if a Foreman were to pick up a piece of trash and throw it in the trash can a union member could and often would file a grievance.
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Re: Boeing

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https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlant ... 56E3KJ4M4/

Another emergency landing bad flaps this time.

I am not afraid to fly I just don't enjoy it for many reasons.
However I've always wanted to go to Europe. I now have enough points on my AA credit card to fly round trip to the UK.
I hope they have these problems worked out by the summer of 25. Otherwise my points might never get used.
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gounion
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Re: Boeing

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Glennfs wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:48 pm I understand cutting corners but not when it comes to air travel. Talk about killing the Golden Goose.
As for your take on motion picture unions. I don't know how it is today but in the middle 70s at American car factories if a Foreman were to pick up a piece of trash and throw it in the trash can a union member could and often would file a grievance.
Well, I never saw such a thing, but maybe since many of the management team that were hired were lazy to start with, there may be a reason.

I worked 20 years in union shops and no one would say a word if a manager picked up a piece of trash. Now, something WAS said when a foreman got onto a forklift and started moving parts, but that's why we had parts movers, also known as Expediters.

And everywhere I worked, the only custodians we had cleaned the bathrooms. We cleaned up after ourselves, and swept and cleaned at the end of the day.

The one time I worked non-union, they had a custodian that even cleaned up machines after us. We didn't sweep and clean at all.
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Re: Boeing

Post by ZoWie »

Glennfs wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:48 pm I understand cutting corners but not when it comes to air travel. Talk about killing the Golden Goose.
As for your take on motion picture unions. I don't know how it is today but in the middle 70s at American car factories if a Foreman were to pick up a piece of trash and throw it in the trash can a union member could and often would file a grievance.
That's an infraction on a union set. You'd want to ask Craft Service to pick it up and throw it into the Official Union Approved Trash Can. It's a hassle, but having worked on non-union shoots, the alternative is worse. You do without things like eating and sleeping until you're barely capable of avoiding moving camera cranes or production vehicles.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
gounion
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Re: Boeing

Post by gounion »

ZoWie wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 1:27 pm That's an infraction on a union set. You'd want to ask Craft Service to pick it up and throw it into the Official Union Approved Trash Can. It's a hassle, but having worked on non-union shoots, the alternative is worse. You do without things like eating and sleeping until you're barely capable of avoiding moving camera cranes or production vehicles.
Most aircraft companies have a contract exception for emergencies, such as severe weather moving in, that anyone and everyone, including management, can step in to help get aircraft to safety when needed.
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Re: Boeing

Post by ZoWie »

Seriously, I doubt anyone ever got dinged for picking up trash. It's technically an infraction but unless the shoot is on a studio lot things get considerably less picky in the fog of war. Then of course there are dispensations to speed up work, such as an electrician moving a cutter in front of a light when that's technically grip equipment.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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