So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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carmenjonze
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

Post by carmenjonze »

Libertas wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:09 am I sincerely believed that board con believed that Trump stole secrets to sell them as is now obvious, but to my astonishment I think I just read board con saying he doesn’t believe that Trump would do that.

I am stunned, I really am.
All this sudden bluster about a 90s term is to avoid Trump and the FBI, Trump and the Espionage Act, and the fact that this person himself votes for Congress's biggest fanboys of Donald Trump and white nationalism.
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carmenjonze
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:06 am No, but people who only and always support the conservative or progressive point of view on every question are not objective or informed people.
Hm, for a person who just recently discovered logical fallacies like ad hominem, and the earthshattering idea that rigid binaries are fake, looks like you skipped over what a false dilemma is.

Learn something about the world you live in before posting: there are far more political positions than some simpleminded "conservative" and "progressive" phony binary.
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Libertas
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:12 am All this sudden bluster about a 90s term is to avoid Trump and the FBI, Trump and the Espionage Act, and the fact that this person himself votes for Congress's biggest fanboys of Donald Trump and white nationalism.
And to my astonishment and I’m not kidding I actually just read on this board, the con does not believe Trump would steal secrets to sell them. Prepare the epitaph of Americans and just provide a link to those comments here by that person.
I sigh in your general direction.
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Drak
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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Libertas wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:14 am And to my astonishment and I’m not kidding I actually just read on this board, the con does not believe Trump would steal secrets to sell them. Prepare the epitaph of Americans and just provide a link to those comments here by that person.
That clown will always defend Trump. Trump could be caught on Camera murdering Melania in cold blood and he'd claim Trump didn't do it.

But Hunter Biden!
JoeMemphis
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:05 am There are some people who think politics is like a team sport. Our team is the Democrats, or the Dallas Cowboys, or whatever. Your team is the Republicans, or the Pittsburgh Steelers, or whatever.

Thus, the goal is to just support our team no matter what it does, or what players do off the field, (or on it), and basically just be cheerleaders for anything they say or do. Nah, that is never the way I have viewed it.

In the end, politics is a contest of ideas, but unlike academia, also policies. Now see, when you enact policies, you put ideas to the test in this place we like to call the real world. In the end, I am a fan of certain policies, because there is demonstrable evidence they work to help create a better society. Yes, guilty as charged.

I don't want to be too dismissive of politicians, but in the end, it's more policies than politicians that matter. I never get too lost in the adoration or veneration of politicians. For one thing, yes, it leads to demagoguery.
There are some people who believe politics is war. You are either friend or foe and there is no in between. You MUST pick a side. There is no compromise, only unconditional surrender. Anyone not on your side is the enemy. The sad thing is that for many of those folks, politics supersedes everything else.

Given a choice, I prefer team sports. Maybe like pickup basketball or sandlot baseball.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:24 am There are some people
Some people say.
who believe politics is war. You are either friend or foe and there is no in between. You MUST pick a side. There is no compromise, only unconditional surrender. Anyone not on your side is the enemy. The sad thing is that for many of those folks, politics supersedes everything else.
Congratulations, you're describing conservatism.

It makes colonizers really angry when the targets don't let you guys run roughshod over us, I do get that.

But protecting ourselves from with-us-or-against-us conservatism has always been crucial to our survival.
Given a choice, I prefer team sports. Maybe like pickup basketball or sandlot baseball.
Are you going to ask for some Grey Poupon, next?

Conservatism is in a crisis because of men like you, who allow people like the tea party and alt-right Proud Boys to dictate policy to Marsha Blackburn and Ron DeSantis, even to your own detriment.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:24 am There are some people who believe politics is war.
War implies there must be winners and losers. I prefer to look toward a society where as many can win as possible.

Americans may get used to that because we usually have a duopoly of two political parties.

Parliamentary politics - at least reading about it and watching it if you don't participate - makes you start to realize there often are multiple, shifting sides.

Politics, as anything else, MHO -- it's just something in life you can choose to ignore, the problem is it won't ignore you, see my friend Pericles of Athens.

TBH, though, here is the difference that to me makes a difference.

Does it makes a gosh honest difference in your life if the local sports team is winning or losing? Does it really, objectively, impact your life in any way at all? I mean you can show all the love and devotion you want to them, trust me, most of them on the team don't care back.

And look, I may love certain Marvel characters but this ridiculous behavior on social media oscillating between stalking and trashing toward the actors who portray them - sheesh people. Maybe. Get a life? I totally get Tom Holland's decision.

Politics will impact your life, even if you choose to ignore it. Often in the most awful of ways. I consider that a family lesson. For that reason I won't.

Nuff said.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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ProfX wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:47 am War implies there must be winners and losers. I prefer to look toward a society where as many can win as possible.

Americans may get used to that because we usually have a duopoly of two political parties.

Parliamentary politics - at least reading about it and watching it if you don't participate - makes you start to realize there often are multiple, shifting sides.

Politics, as anything else, MHO -- it's just something in life you can choose to ignore, the problem is it won't ignore you, see my friend Pericles of Athens.

TBH, though, here is the difference that to me makes a difference.

Does it makes a gosh honest difference in your life if the local sports team is winning or losing? Does it really, objectively, impact your life in any way at all? I mean you can show all the love and devotion you want to them, trust me, most of them on the team don't care back.

And look, I may love certain Marvel characters but this ridiculous behavior on social media oscillating between stalking and trashing toward the actors who portray them - sheesh people. Maybe. Get a life? I totally get Tom Holland's decision.

Politics will impact your life, even if you choose to ignore it. Often in the most awful of ways. I consider that a family lesson. For that reason I won't.

Nuff said.
Yes politics can and does affect your life as does many other things. But that doesn’t mean that everyone who disagrees with one side or another is the enemy. I don’t get all the vitriol in todays politics. One side claiming the other is out to kill. All the comparisons to fascists and Nazis. It’s a little over the top don’t you think?

The country is bigger and better than any individual President or office holder. We certainly deserve better than the dysfunctional government we’ve been getting. Oh I know folks will say it’s all sausage making and that’s messy and ugly. That would be okay if it weren’t for the fact that the sausage being made isn’t all that great.

It’s a good thing I guess this isn’t team sports. A divided team has a hard time winning. Same for war. Same for business. Maybe one day we will elect leaders who manage and lead rather than “fight”.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:09 pmI don’t get all the vitriol in todays politics. One side claiming the other is out to kill. All the comparisons to fascists and Nazis. It’s a little over the top don’t you think?
^this is how a person talks when their own kind gets in a car and drives 300 miles to mass-murder people in a supermarket.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:24 am There are some people who believe politics is war. You are either friend or foe and there is no in between. You MUST pick a side. There is no compromise, only unconditional surrender. Anyone not on your side is the enemy. The sad thing is that for many of those folks, politics supersedes everything else.
You realize you’re describing the people you’re voting for, right? It’s your side that attacked our nations capital, not ours.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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Reminder: the people who mass-murder others over difference are conservatives, typically white men.

The people who make laws, statutes, measures, bills, policies to sideline people different from themselves are conservatives, always white conservative.

The ones forbidding others to marry or serve in the military or go to some school or live in some block in some neighborhood are always conservatives, and typically white conservatives.

That legal and social foundation is the basis of all the "division" contemporary conservative whites are complaining about.

It's also the type that they are voting back into office with every election since their evolution from their tea party days.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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gounion wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:14 pm You realize you’re describing the people you’re voting for, right? It’s your side that attacked our nations capital, not ours.
You make my point.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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carmenjonze wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:13 pm ^this is how a person talks when their own kind gets in a car and drives 300 miles to mass-murder people in a supermarket.
Yes.
JoeMemphis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:09 am
I don’t get all the vitriol in todays politics. One side claiming the other is out to kill. All the comparisons to fascists and Nazis. It’s a little over the top don’t you think?


And this is a classic example of what we've been talking about. The GOP has shown us who they are with their blatant authoritarianism. They are threatening civil war and violence. They are now putting out threats against law enforcement. They attacked the Capital on J6, in a highly coordinated effort from top to bottom. And the local conservatives like this fella, will ignore, deny and move the goalposts, constantly normalizing them. Then make non factual, stupid claims about "both sides." There is no bottom.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:30 pm You make my point.
No, you make your point that you support a party that wants to overthrow our government, not me.

There is no equivalency.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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One side claiming the other is out to kill. All the comparisons to fascists and Nazis. It’s a little over the top don’t you think?
There are people out to kill. Somebody just tried to kill Salman Rushdie.

As for those comparisons, it depends, right? I wouldn't make that comparison for Ben Sasse (for example) (though I'm not really his biggest fan), but I would for Viktor Orban. And then I wonder about people who fawn all over Viktor Orban, including people like Tucker Carlson & Donald Trump.

I really enjoy people crying about hypocrisy, then crying about those labels, then calling all Democrats socialists. :roll: (irony intended on the word "enjoy".)
Maybe one day we will elect leaders who manage and lead rather than “fight”.
Yeah, BTW, it's always been this way. Really.

The only thing that doesn't now happen in the 21st century is politicians don't challenge each other to duels & pistols at dawn.

Image

At least not openly.

That was how our "civilized" so-called Founders often settled things amongst themselves.

I like management & leadership. Thing is, if you tell me you're a leader, cool, I want to know where you're taking us (in this case, the "us" would be this country and this society, not a corporation or business.)

And as always, if you're taking us a place I don't like - well, I'm gonna disagree.

It's always been that way. And always will. Claims that politics & government used to be less conflictual rarely square with the actual history.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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ProfX wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:23 pm There are people out to kill. Somebody just tried to kill Salman Rushdie.

As for those comparisons, it depends, right? I wouldn't make that comparison for Ben Sasse (for example) (though I'm not really his biggest fan), but I would for Viktor Orban. And then I wonder about people who fawn all over Viktor Orban, including people like Tucker Carlson & Donald Trump.

I really enjoy people crying about hypocrisy, then crying about those labels, then calling all Democrats socialists. :roll: (irony intended on the word "enjoy".)



Yeah, BTW, it's always been this way. Really.

The only thing that doesn't now happen in the 21st century is politicians don't challenge each other to duels & pistols at dawn.

Image

At least not openly.

That was how our "civilized" so-called Founders often settled things amongst themselves.

I like management & leadership. Thing is, if you tell me you're a leader, cool, I want to know where you're taking us (in this case, the "us" would be this country and this society, not a corporation or business.)

And as always, if you're taking us a place I don't like - well, I'm gonna disagree.

It's always been that way. And always will. Claims that politics & government used to be less conflictual rarely square with the actual history.
Yeah I get we have violent people. But claiming an entire party wants to kill the other is over the top in my opinion. Calling the other party communist or socialists or Nazis is over the top in my opinion. So in general the increase in hate speech and inflammatory rhetoric towards people with different political opinions and views isn’t making things better. The country isn’t moving forward because of all this government dysfunction.

As to going to a particular place, I don’t think it’s a matter of place but rather of direction. I think most people will agree on many of the goals. That’s not the question really. It’s a question of how and who gets to drive. You have to have a certain level of trust in the people and the institutions for these things to work. The people running the government need to remember that how they are perceived is as important as what they do when it comes to public confidence. That’s the difference between managing and leading versus just fighting all the time. In the end you may win, but what have you gained if you destroy confidence in the very institutions you want people to trust.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:52 pm Yeah I get we have violent people. But claiming an entire party wants to kill the other is over the top in my opinion. Calling the other party communist or socialists or Nazis is over the top in my opinion. So in general the increase in hate speech and inflammatory rhetoric towards people with different political opinions and views isn’t making things better. The country isn’t moving forward because of all this government dysfunction.

As to going to a particular place, I don’t think it’s a matter of place but rather of direction. I think most people will agree on many of the goals. That’s not the question really. It’s a question of how and who gets to drive. You have to have a certain level of trust in the people and the institutions for these things to work. The people running the government need to remember that how they are perceived is as important as what they do when it comes to public confidence. That’s the difference between managing and leading versus just fighting all the time. In the end you may win, but what have you gained if you destroy confidence in the very institutions you want people to trust.
The people you vote for, elected officials, are calling to completely gut and defund the FBI. Wouldn't you call THAT over the top? When one of the most popular conservative tv/radio hosts is Alex Jones, why do you think using "Nazi" is overblown? Former Trump top aide Steve Bannon, whom Trump gave a pardon to, is openly calling for armed revolution against the government of our nation.

But I guess you'll pull the ignorance card and pretend you know nothing about that.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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If you dont want to be called violent or a fascist, get out of the party this person is the leader of...


https://www.politico.com/video/2017/01/ ... ter-061897

I moved on her like a
https://youtu.be/fYqKx1GuZGg

I just wanna find
https://youtu.be/AbFc9T7KXA0


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/201 ... 101520384/

Keeps journalists out of meeting but invites Russian media...

Image

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... the-saudis
(Just having him and the other family members as officials is something board con would lose his mind over, let alone CLEARLY selling secrets or giving something to them while in office to get this money.)


You have no credibility at all if you dont leave the party and loudly denounce it daily.
I sigh in your general direction.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:52 pm Calling the other party communist or socialists or Nazis is over the top in my opinion.
Tell glenn to stop then. :D
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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ProfX wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:05 pm Tell glenn to stop then. :D
Oh, you know Joe's never seen Glenn do that! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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ProfX wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:05 pm Tell glenn to stop then. :D
I’m perfectly happy to ask Glenn to stop using such rhetoric. How about you do the same to the board members here who use the same type of rhetoric towards conservative board members.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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Experts call your side fascists, why cant we?


“To call a person who endorses violence against the duly elected government a ‘Republican’ is itself Orwellian. More accurate words exist for such a person. One of them is ‘fascist.’”

Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank dropped the f-word after the Republican National Committee (RNC) on February 4 declared the January 6, 2021, insurrection at the US Capitol “legitimate political discourse.” The RNC also censured US Representatives Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) and Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) for serving on the House committee investigating the Capitol attack.



Others—former George W. Bush speechwriter David Frum and Democratic journalist Ed Kilgore among them—agree that the Trump-appeasing GOP is akin to the European fascists who rose to power between the two world wars.

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/are-tr ... -fascists/

I guess for lack of a better word?
I wouldn’t call [them] fascists, because fascists are people who were involved in the interwar period. But there’s no question that they’re violent antidemocrats who are also violently racist.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:04 pm I’m perfectly happy to ask Glenn to stop using such rhetoric. How about you do the same to the board members here who use the same type of rhetoric towards conservative board members.
People, stop saying all conservatives are Nazis.

(BTW, you haven't told me who does this. But there you go. :D )

Oh and BTW2: I call Viktor Orban and Donald Trump right-populist authoritarians. I stick by that. Some call that "fascist lite". I wouldn't resist the implication, but I stick by my wording. :mrgreen:

Also, incidentally, I would also apply that to Erdogan, Putin, Mohammed Bin Salman, and both the past and present dictators of the Philippines. :D

Marine Le Pen is a fascist. No qualifications.

This is Steve Bannon, who helped her campaign.

Image

Those who think Bannon only wanted to reshape the U.S. were not paying attention. Like all extreme and totalizing ideologues, he will only be satisfied with deconstructing the entire world.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

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ProfX wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:25 pm People, stop saying all conservatives are Nazis.

(BTW, you haven't told me who does this. But there you go. :D )

Oh and BTW2: I call Viktor Orban and Donald Trump right-populist authoritarians. I stick by that. Some call that "fascist lite". I wouldn't resist the implication, but I stick by my wording. :mrgreen:

Also, incidentally, I would also apply that to Erdogan, Putin, Mohammed Bin Salman, and both the past and present dictators of the Philippines. :D

Marine Le Pen is a fascist. No qualifications.

This is Steve Bannon, who helped her campaign.

Image

Those who think Bannon only wanted to reshape the U.S. were not paying attention. Like all extreme and totalizing ideologues, he will only be satisfied with deconstructing the entire world.
Thank you for that picture.

You know, I have offered board cons opportunity after opportunity to get me to stop calling them

violent antidemocrats who are also violently racist.

if they will just denounce their party which is...they never do.
I sigh in your general direction.
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Re: So is this why Trump buried Ivana at his golf course?

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:04 pm I’m perfectly happy to ask Glenn to stop using such rhetoric. How about you do the same to the board members here who use the same type of rhetoric towards conservative board members.
So do it. I’ll make sure he sees it.
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