Biden takes the gloves off

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ZoWie
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Biden takes the gloves off

Post by ZoWie »

Kicked off the midterm campaign a bit early with a rousing speech in PA:

1. Assault rifles must be banned, they are designed for warfare and have no civilian use.
2. More money for local police, also more oversight to purge bad cops.
3. Republicans who won't reject violent insurrection are not patriots, nor do they speak for the people.
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Libertas
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by Libertas »

Allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices was something the Democrats were gonna have for all Americans but the Republicans took it out of the bill.
I sigh in your general direction.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by carmenjonze »

ZoWie wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:18 pm Kicked off the midterm campaign a bit early with a rousing speech in PA:

1. Assault rifles must be banned, they are designed for warfare and have no civilian use.
2. More money for local police,
Well, f. that.
also more oversight to purge bad cops.
3. Republicans who won't reject violent insurrection are not patriots, nor do they speak for the people.
I hope goes even firther with calling them fascists. That's what they are, and they benefit from the same "political correctness" they constantly complain about.

It's just a word.
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Libertas
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by Libertas »

Police who LIVE in the community they work in, is something that should be required EVERYWHERE.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by bradman »

ZoWie wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:18 pm Kicked off the midterm campaign a bit early with a rousing speech in PA:

1. Assault rifles must be banned, they are designed for warfare and have no civilian use.
2. More money for local police, also more oversight to purge bad cops.
3. Republicans who won't reject violent insurrection are not patriots, nor do they speak for the people.
It's about fucking time.

Let 'er roll.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by carmenjonze »

Libertas wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:29 pm Police who LIVE in the community they work in, is something that should be required EVERYWHERE.
Announcement after report after news story after database leak of all these cops and military in neo-nazi and white-supremacist organizations, and somehow we're supposed to be eager to give them MORE munny.

Okay.

:?
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by carmenjonze »

bradman wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:57 pm It's about fucking time.

Let 'er roll.
White supremacists and neonazis in law enforcement don't need more money.

The cops don't need more funding.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by bradman »

Libertas wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:29 pm Police who LIVE in the community they work in, is something that should be required EVERYWHERE.
i'd settle for police forces better reflecting the community they work in.

More importantly, to set up programs in those communities that would better allow recruitment from those areas. (community involvement)
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by bradman »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:26 am White supremacists and neonazis in law enforcement don't need more money.

The cops don't need more funding.
2. More money for local police, also more oversight to purge bad cops.
[bold] We need money for a National Registry.....

https://news.usc.edu/187367/national-po ... thers-usc/
How a national police misconduct registry can help rebuild trust in law enforcement
This week, the USC Safe Communities Institute announced the pilot rollout of the Law Enforcement Work Inquiry System Registry, the first comprehensive national catalog of police officers who have been terminated or resigned due to misconduct. The LEWIS Registry, named after the late Rep. John Lewis, is designed to hold police officers and departments accountable and increase public trust in law enforcement. All information in the registry on misconduct — such as excessive use of force, corruption, domestic violence, assault and hate group affiliation — is drawn from public sources like official department statements, court records, news reports and other open sources.
2. More money for local police
"Local" police. Draw police officers from the local community they've lived in and would work in.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by carmenjonze »

bradman wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:01 am [bold] We need money for a National Registry.....

https://news.usc.edu/187367/national-po ... thers-usc/
How a national police misconduct registry can help rebuild trust in law enforcement




"Local" police. Draw police officers from the local community they've lived in and would work in.
Yes we’ve talked about a national registry. Do you feel Biden or anyone else talking about increasing funding for the cops is talking about a NATIONAL police registry, though? In this environment of banning transgender children and Toni Morrison books? I don’t.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by carmenjonze »

bradman wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:01 am "Local" police. Draw police officers from the local community they've lived in and would work in.
That is never what “local police” means.

Where do you get these pro-police rationalizations?
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Number6
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by Number6 »

Libertas wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:29 pm Police who LIVE in the community they work in, is something that should be required EVERYWHERE.
Nice thought but that may prove infeasible. In many large cities a police salary isn't enough to cover the cost of housing. In my small city, Coronado, the average police salary is $59,000 and the average rent is $3,600. This means a police officer would be paying 73% of their salary on housing. Most of the police, if not all, live in the cities surrounding Coronado where rents are lower. This probably also is true for cities like New York, Chicago, San Fransisco, Los Angles, etc..

I doubt a city could legally require their police force to live in the city they serve unless the city raised their salaries to make it affordable for them to do so.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by carmenjonze »

Number6 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:34 pm Nice thought but that may prove infeasible. In many large cities a police salary isn't enough to cover the cost of housing. In my small city, Coronado, the average police salary is $59,000 and the average rent is $3,600. This means a police officer would be paying 73% of their salary on housing. Most of the police, if not all, live in the cities surrounding Coronado where rents are lower. This probably also is true for cities like New York, Chicago, San Fransisco, Los Angles, etc..

I doubt a city could legally require their police force to live in the city they serve unless the city raised their salaries to make it affordable for them to do so.
The point is as bradman said, to hire from the actual communities being policed instead of bringing suburbanites to police cities they don’t have any stake in.

Bit “local police” support has never meant this. Local police support means just throwing more munny at PDs for bigger and better killing machines, it body/dash cams they just turn off, anyway.

Otherwise the cities are just subsidizing cul-de-sac lifestyles of the people basing in our childrens heads, and worse.

But then, this is a very longstanding issue of overpolicing in cities and who actually pays for it. It’s tied to the other longstanding history of minoritized peoples peoples’ taxes underwriting segregation….and the cops that infamously enforced it.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

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carmenjonze wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:45 pm The point is as bradman said, to hire from the actual communities being policed instead of bringing suburbanites to police cities they don’t have any stake in.

Bit “local police” support has never meant this. Local police support means just throwing more munny at PDs for bigger and better killing machines, it body/dash cams they just turn off, anyway.

Otherwise the cities are just subsidizing cul-de-sac lifestyles of the people basing in our childrens heads, and worse.

But then, this is a very longstanding issue of overpolicing in cities and who actually pays for it. It’s tied to the other longstanding history of minoritized peoples peoples’ taxes underwriting segregation….and the cops that infamously enforced it.
That's a nice idea of having police hired from the actual communities they live in but the reality is those who live in the community aren't volunteering to become police officers. The military has a problem recruiting because most of those eligible can't meet the minimum standards for military standard. Within a community, how many people can meet the minimum standards to become a police officer?

In large cities, recruiting will be a problem if you require them to live in city but don't pay them enough. In small communities, it's easier to recruit because the cost of living is much less. Also, what happens if you have police officer living in the community they police and they get transferred to another section of the city. Does that mean they have to move to that new community?

Like I said, it's a nice idea and great if it can be done but the reality is it's not always practicable or doable.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by bradman »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:29 pm That is never what “local police” means.

Where do you get these pro-police rationalizations?
[bold] From when i was 6th grade Bus Patrol maybe? :)
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by carmenjonze »

Number6 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:14 pm That's a nice idea of having police hired from the actual communities they live in but the reality is those who live in the community aren't volunteering to become police officers. The military has a problem recruiting because most of those eligible can't meet the minimum standards for military standard. Within a community, how many people can meet the minimum standards to become a police officer?

In large cities, recruiting will be a problem if you require them to live in city but don't pay them enough. In small communities, it's easier to recruit because the cost of living is much less. Also, what happens if you have police officer living in the community they police and they get transferred to another section of the city. Does that mean they have to move to that new community?

Like I said, it's a nice idea and great if it can be done but the reality is it's not always practicable or doable.
I don’t buy it at all that the only or best-qualified people making six figures for these jobs come from suburbia.

But I suppose this kind of defeatism is how this country ends up with all these WNs in law enforcement and the military.

And now we’re supposed to throw munny at these FOP-run organizations and end up with more Black and Latino people as hashtags and gofundme’s.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by carmenjonze »

bradman wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:34 pm [bold] From when i was 6th grade Bus Patrol maybe? :)
Sure. More munny for overpolicing is just a joke, to those who are not overpoliced. Gotcha.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by carmenjonze »

By the way, local hiring for local PDs is just a baby step.

The problem is with US policing practices themselves. The people who became police, or want to, is an issue of individuals.

The institution of law enforcement is the root of the problem.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by bradman »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:47 pm Sure. More munny for overpolicing is just a joke, to those who are not overpoliced. Gotcha.
Oh i dunno......i learned from it. Bullies come in all shapes and sizes. Some of them are smart, some of them as dumb as a box of rocks. The bullies on my bus didn't see the humor in having to be seated behind the driver instead of the back of the bus where they could get away with bullying. One of them whooped my ass on the playground for my effort in keeping the bus a safe zone. Meh, i wasn't wearing my badge at the time.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

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Whether we call it reform or not, MHO is our nation's police forces need several things to change:

1. community policing. This means not just being from the communities they serve, but spending time in those communities as much as possible. Not just arresting people, but you know, doing the other "serve and protect" stuff, like handing out toys, or whatever else. This means they feel less like, and seem less like, foreign occupiers.

2. training has got to emphasize de-escalation, again where possible. I understand it's impossible to de-escalate the guy who's just mowed down 30 people with a machine gun. He gets what he deserves. But in other situations, something less than violent force often can, and should, resolve the situation. No more of this "warrior training". Police are not military, they are not soldiers, and yeah it would help if they had LESS military hardware. They may need to reluctantly arrest wrongdoers, but the citizenry are not their enemy.

3. there MUST be accountability when they use excessive force, especially lethal, when it was not called for. To be clear, I accept there are situations where they MUST use it. Those need to be rare. Furthermore, police should not protect the bad cops among them; they should feel obligated to turn those people in - to protect the name of their profession, if nothing else.

4. recruiting has GOT so screen out and eliminate the neo-Nazis, white nationalists, and other scum. Zero tolerance policy.

Make me monarch of the U.S., I institute all of this tomorrow. :mrgreen: I kid. But these are ideas we MUST implement. Yes, bullies are bad. But the badge gives you power. And with great power comes great responsibility. Now IF you are a bully, you have the power to do MORE damage. For some reason, the movie "Training Day" always sticks in my mind, with this lesson. "King Kong ain't got nothing on me!"
Last edited by ProfX on Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

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bradman wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:59 pm Oh i dunno......i learned from it. Bullies come in all shapes and sizes. Some of them are smart, some of them as dumb as a box of rocks. The bullies on my bus didn't see the humor in having to be seated behind the driver instead of the back of the bus where they could get away with bullying. One of them whooped my ass on the playground for my effort in keeping the bus a safe zone. Meh, i wasn't wearing my badge at the time.
Oh, you were serious. Ok.
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bradman
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by bradman »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:15 pm Oh, you were serious. Ok.
Partly serious. Partly trying to keep a sense of humor.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by Bludogdem »

Number6 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:34 pm Nice thought but that may prove infeasible. In many large cities a police salary isn't enough to cover the cost of housing. In my small city, Coronado, the average police salary is $59,000 and the average rent is $3,600. This means a police officer would be paying 73% of their salary on housing. Most of the police, if not all, live in the cities surrounding Coronado where rents are lower. This probably also is true for cities like New York, Chicago, San Fransisco, Los Angles, etc..

I doubt a city could legally require their police force to live in the city they serve unless the city raised their salaries to make it affordable for them to do so.
Here’s a better source for what police earn in Coronado.

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salar ... e-gutzmer/

And what other public officials earn.

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salar ... do/?page=1

Seem to be doing ok.
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by carmenjonze »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:02 pm Here’s a better source for what police earn in Coronado.

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salar ... e-gutzmer/

And what other public officials earn.

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salar ... do/?page=1

Seem to be doing ok.
"Transparent California" has nothing to do with "California" and is a far-right school-defunding website.

Better source, pls.
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Number6
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Re: Biden takes the gloves off

Post by Number6 »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:02 pm Here’s a better source for what police earn in Coronado.

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salar ... e-gutzmer/

And what other public officials earn.

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salar ... do/?page=1

Seem to be doing ok.
Here's an even better source, the city of Coronado's Personnel Authorization and Compensation Plan, Fiscal Year 2022-2023. The bottom of page on lists the biweekly (80 hours) pay for police officers.
https://www.coronado.ca.us/DocumentCent ... mation-PDF

Another source for police officer salaries in Coronado is salary.com.
https://www.salary.com/research/salary/ ... oronado-ca\
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