Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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gounion
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Elon Musk, rip-off King!

Post by gounion »

Well, fuck me. Unbelievable. Exclusive: Musk’s SpaceX says it can no longer pay for critical satellite services in Ukraine, asks Pentagon to pick up the tab

Since they first started arriving in Ukraine last spring, the Starlink satellite internet terminals made by Elon Musk’s SpaceX have been a vital source of communication for Ukraine’s military, allowing it to fight and stay connected even as cellular phone and internet networks have been destroyed in its war with Russia.

So far roughly 20,000 Starlink satellite units have been donated to Ukraine, with Musk tweeting on Friday the “operation has cost SpaceX $80 million and will exceed $100 million by the end of the year.”

But those charitable contributions could be coming to an end, as SpaceX has warned the Pentagon that it may stop funding the service in Ukraine unless the US military kicks in tens of millions of dollars per month.

Documents obtained by CNN show that last month Musk’s SpaceX sent a letter to the Pentagon saying it can no longer continue to fund the Starlink service as it has. The letter also requested that the Pentagon take over funding for Ukraine’s government and military use of Starlink, which SpaceX claims would cost more than $120 million for the rest of the year and could cost close to $400 million for the next 12 months.

“We are not in a position to further donate terminals to Ukraine, or fund the existing terminals for an indefinite period of time,” SpaceX’s director of government sales wrote to the Pentagon in the September letter.

Among the SpaceX documents sent to the Pentagon and seen by CNN is a previously unreported direct request made to Musk in July by the Ukrainian military’s commanding general, General Valerii Zaluzhniy, for almost 8,000 more Starlink terminals.

In a separate cover letter to the Pentagon, an outside consultant working for SpaceX wrote, “SpaceX faces terribly difficult decisions here. I do not think they have the financial ability to provide any additional terminals or service as requested by General Zaluzhniy.”

The documents, which have not been previously reported, provide a rare breakdown of SpaceX’s own internal numbers on Starlink, detailing the costs and payments associated with the thousands of terminals in Ukraine. They also shed new light on behind-the-scenes negotiations that have provided millions of dollars in communications hardware and services to Ukraine at little cost to Kyiv.

Musk on Friday said that in asking the Pentagon to pick up the bill for Starlink in Ukraine, he was following the advice of a Ukrainian diplomat who responded to Musk’s Ukraine peace plan earlier this month, before the letter was sent to the Pentagon, with: “F*** off.”

Ukraine’s ambassador to Germany, Andrij Melnyk, responded earlier this month to Musk’s claimed peace plan for Russia’s Ukraine war by saying: “F*** off is my very diplomatic reply to you @elonmusk.”

“We’re just following his recommendation,” Musk said on Friday, responding to a tweet that referenced CNN’s reporting and Melnyk’s comments, even though the letter SpaceX sent to the Pentagon was sent before the Twitter exchange.
Isn't that special? Volunteer and set it all up, to "help" Ukraine, then blackmail both them and the US government to pay the tab - at whatever price Musk wants to charge.

Sumbitch should be in prison for blackmail.
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Drak
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

Post by Drak »

He’s a child, too.

A dangerous clown Bond villain


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ap215
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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gounion wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:39 pm Well, fuck me. Unbelievable. Exclusive: Musk’s SpaceX says it can no longer pay for critical satellite services in Ukraine, asks Pentagon to pick up the tab



Isn't that special? Volunteer and set it all up, to "help" Ukraine, then blackmail both them and the US government to pay the tab - at whatever price Musk wants to charge.

Sumbitch should be in prison for blackmail.
And he'll do the same with Twitter too.
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

Post by Libertas »

Cons love him, they cant wait for him to reinstate trump so he can call his followers to shoot us.
I sigh in your general direction.
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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Kinda curious why the quote was changed from, can't “fund the existing system indefinitely” ... to..."it can no longer pay". The closer ya get to our wonderful social media the more you see, "will no longer pay".

Rumor has it Musk is in it for 80 mill so far. 100 by the end of the year. He's not asking to recoup past expenses, and has asked the Pentagon some time ago to pick up the future tab. Developing.....
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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bradman wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:19 pm Kinda curious why the quote was changed from, can't “fund the existing system indefinitely” ... to..."it can no longer pay". The closer ya get to our wonderful social media the more you see, "will no longer pay".

Rumor has it Musk is in it for 80 mill so far. 100 by the end of the year. He's not asking to recoup past expenses, and has asked the Pentagon some time ago to pick up the future tab. Developing.....
Reasonable discussion like this could vault you into the label of an irredeemable conservative.
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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Bludogdem wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:48 am Reasonable discussion like this could vault you into the label of an irredeemable conservative.
Those here for reasonable discussion are honest. They don’t constantly run off then come back pretending to be someone else under different accounts, and they don’t constantly make up stories about all their degrees, expertise and life experience.
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gounion
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

Post by gounion »

bradman wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:19 pm Kinda curious why the quote was changed from, can't “fund the existing system indefinitely” ... to..."it can no longer pay". The closer ya get to our wonderful social media the more you see, "will no longer pay".

Rumor has it Musk is in it for 80 mill so far. 100 by the end of the year. He's not asking to recoup past expenses, and has asked the Pentagon some time ago to pick up the future tab. Developing.....
So, if Elon wanted the government to pay for a system for Ukraine, he should have proposed it, and negotiated a price like everyone else up front. Instead, he put it in, now Ukraine depends on it, and he's blackmailing the government to pay whatever he wants them to pay to continue it.

Not surprised greengrass backs Elon.

This was a scam from the start.
gounion
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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Bludogdem wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:48 am Reasonable discussion like this could vault you into the label of an irredeemable conservative.
You've never ever, under any of your sock accounts, had a reasonable discussion. You're the king of Appeal to Authority.
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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gounion wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:27 am So, if Elon wanted the government to pay for a system for Ukraine, he should have proposed it, and negotiated a price like everyone else up front. Instead, he put it in, now Ukraine depends on it, and he's blackmailing the government to pay whatever he wants them to pay to continue it.

Not surprised greengrass backs Elon.

This was a scam from the start.
Seems to me there was really no time for a negotiated price. Ukraine needed Starlink and they needed it now. Musk gave it to them in record time.
Rumor has it Musk is in it for 80 mill so far. 100 by the end of the year. He's not asking to recoup past expenses, and has asked the Pentagon some time ago to pick up the future tab.
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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Bludogdem wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:48 am Reasonable discussion like this could vault you into the label of an irredeemable conservative.
i really don't care anymore.
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

Post by ZoWie »

Then needed something, but there are alternatives to Starlink that don't make terrestrial astronomy impossible, and don't further enrich the dangerous Elon Musk.

One of the long-time space-based options is now already heavily subsidized by the CIA, and it would have gotten up and running in Ukraine in a pretty short time, if the spies aren't using it there already. If the Pentagon, in other words you and me, are going to pay for reliable comm in Ukraine, we at least ought to consider alternatives other than Musk.

I wouldn't be surprised if the dangerous Elon Musk actually wants Russia to win, but he saw a business opportunity. These would both be just like him. He wanted LA taxpayers to pay for him to dig a tunnel under LA that would have been finished sometime a couple of generations from now, and would have cost many many billions.
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gounion
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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bradman wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:55 am Seems to me there was really no time for a negotiated price. Ukraine needed Starlink and they needed it now. Musk gave it to them in record time.
And then will make HUGE profits as the government pays him to keep it there via blackmail. Worst kind of bait-and switch. He’s not saying “i need some help financially” it’s “now you pay me what I want or I’ll shut it down”.

Why do you think this is fine?
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

Post by ZoWie »

I think it stinks, and as I said if you're going to ding the taxpayers for the mess, at least spend our money on one of the better systems with a more established infrastructure in space. StarLink is a speculative venture at best, and a very expensive and disruptive one to implement fully.
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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BTW the Russian troops are doing most of their comm on cheap Chinese transceivers that you can buy from Amazon at garage sale prices. I'm talking a hundred bucks for a working broadband radio. The actual Russian military radio system, which cost many many rubles and has that classic military look to it, does not work very well because the people who sold it were corrupt.

The Russians are losing, but comm is not the reason why. In fact, their real problem right now regarding comm is that Ukraine has taken down their civilian cell phone 5G (or was it 4G?) network that the Russian troops counted on for backup. Russia went in there with unrealistic expectations for ideological reasons. We don't need Elon Musk to win over there.
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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Don't get me wrong. i like Musk about as much as i like Bozo. That even goes back as far as Gates.

i don't think he wants Russia to win. i do think he's in the same crowd that's worried about pushing Putin to far.

Given Putin has shed everyone but the hard liners, it's not just him. That's a large group of important people that want Putin to get radical.

From what i understand Starlink is a different animal. Communication is everything and It's become vital for Ukraine's front line troops. Especially if you want fast moving strikes.

Me, i haven't decided. On one hand, i'd like to see Ukraine get all it's rightful territory back. On the other hand, i don't think Russia will ever give up Crimea. That now includes the land bridge, and water rights, to Crimea. i can't help but think that's the red line. What happens after that? i dunno......The big guy did say he'd do us by fire the next time round.
Last edited by bradman on Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Drak
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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Musk was in communication with Putin in some fashion, then started tweeting out Putin propaganda on Ukraine, about agreeing with annexation and peace deals, or else. Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. Russia doesn’t get to call the shots after getting spanked on the battle field. And Crimea doesn’t belong to Russia. You don’t go Neville Chamberlain with a country like Russia and you don’t cave to their nuclear threats. Russian state TV also broadcast about shutting down Starlink and that’s when the problems began.

Regardless of what you think of Musk personally, he’s a security threat.
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gounion
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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bradman wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:20 pm Don't get me wrong. i like Musk about as much as i like Bozo. That even goes back as far as Gates.

i don't think he wants Russia to win. i do think he's in the same crowd that's worried about pushing Putin to far.

Given Putin has shed everyone but the hard liners, it's not just him. That's a large group of important people that want Putin to get radical.

From what i understand Starlink is a different animal. Communication is everything and It's become vital for Ukraine's front line troops. Especially if you want fast moving strikes.

Me, i haven't decided. On one hand, i'd like to see Ukraine get all it's rightful territory back. On the other hand, i don't think Russia will ever give up Crimea. That now includes the land bridge, and water rights, to Crimea. i can't help but think that's the red line. What happens after that? i dunno......He did say he'd do us by fire the next time round.
You are welcome to ignore my points, but it IS seen by everyone that’s what you are doing. Why should Musk, who has pledged that he will pay all the costs of the Starlink system in the Ukraine, now say that the TOTAL cost - at Musk’s valuation of it - should now be paid by the American people? He didn’t even say, hey, it’s a burden, could I have some help - no, he said that we must pay the full haul - whatever he tells us it is.

That’s not how the USA handles military contracting.

Musk makes Eisenhower quite prescient, doesn’t he?
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

Post by bradman »

Mobilization and communications have been Russia's biggest problems.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/26/10946563 ... unications
How does Ukraine keep intercepting Russian military communications?
April 26, 20221:34 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered
Q. If this has been happening since the beginning of the war, why can't the Russians figure out how to prevent it?
This has been a real mystery, especially since the Russians have a long history of having strong military intelligence and communications.

The Russians have a modern, secure radio system for the military. Russian intelligence has been extremely active in Ukraine for years. But Russia has so far squandered these advantages, according to military analysts.

Inexplicably, the analysts say, Russia has used basic, off-the-shelf, unencrypted radio communications in many cases that made it relatively easy for the Ukrainians and others to listen in.


Also, it's not clear why Russia hasn't simply bombed Ukrainian communications networks to rubble.

Russia expected a quick and easy takeover of Ukraine, and there's been speculation that Moscow wanted to keep the phone system, the railways, the electrical power grid and other infrastructure in place so Russian forces could use it.

And, no doubt, Russia is also tapping into Ukrainian communications and would like to continue these operations.

But whatever the reasons, Ukraine's phone and internet systems are functioning in most places, in contrast to what was predicted before the war.
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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It was illegal for Russia to annex the Donetsk & Luhansk regions - UN says so. Referendum was ridiculously illegitimate. The majority of people may be Russian speaking, but I doubt the other groups in the area voted 99% for the referendum. :roll:

The Ukrainians are taking it back on the ground, piece by piece ...

It was also illegal to for them to annex Crimea too, but the thing about fait accompli is it tends to become its own reality over time.

In an ideal world, I'd like Zelensky to boot the Russians with nuttin'. But, it isn't the one we live in. I think there may be no peace agreement without letting Putin have Crimea. :|
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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I don't have time to search for links, but a lot of people have written about the failure of Russian military communications. Their military radio system is indeed modern, with all the bells and whistles, but the troops have never found it all that satisfactory for communication. There's a history of corrupt deals with insiders, in standard Putin procedure. The gear is notoriously unreliable, and doesn't meet claimed specs. Mostly they use it on the base where the brass are watching but in the field a lot of the comm goes to cell phones and the aforementioned $100 Chinese transceivers. You can buy them too, they're all over Amazon, but you get what you pay for.

This is documented all over the place. Google is your friend. Many articles have been written about this. It's one of Russia's dirty little secrets.

Early in the war, they were also using clear voice on plain old HF (short wave) radio, where thousands of civilians could hear them just by listening for dialects not used in Ukraine. Also, a few intercepts were made of military traffic in, believe it or not, Morse code. The brass put an end to this pretty fast, but they're still using cell phones on the same network as civilians, when it works. Recently quite a few of the towers have been destroyed or turned off, most by Ukraine to deny that asset to Russian troops.

I'm not going to speculate on the outcome of the war. I do not consider Putin to be a rational actor, therefore I don't want to say anything I'll regret later.
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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Drak wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:50 pm Musk was in communication with Putin in some fashion, then started tweeting out Putin propaganda on Ukraine, about agreeing with annexation and peace deals, or else. Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. Russia doesn’t get to call the shots after getting spanked on the battle field. And Crimea doesn’t belong to Russia. You don’t go Neville Chamberlain with a country like Russia and you don’t cave to their nuclear threats. Russian state TV also broadcast about shutting down Starlink and that’s when the problems began.

Regardless of what you think of Musk personally, he’s a security threat.
[bold]So far it's one man's word. Ian Bremmer's.

Did Neville do the right thing......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmyecSXOla8
Neville Chamberlain Did The Right Thing
208,571 views Jun 12, 2013
Intelligence Squared
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The poll results at the end are surprising.
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Drak
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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bradman wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:17 pm [bold]So far it's one man's word. Ian Bremmer's.

Did Neville do the right thing......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmyecSXOla8
Neville Chamberlain Did The Right Thing
208,571 views Jun 12, 2013
Intelligence Squared
542K subscribers

The poll results at the end are surprising.
I’d take Bremmer’s word over Musk’s. It’s highly coincidental that Musk was parroting Russian talking points right after. Musk sort of denied talking directly to Putin with a dismissal. That’s not a denial that he spoke with Putin through other means or channels. Musk is not a good guy, and not straight with his business practices.

And appeasing fascist dictators doesn’t work. It didn’t work with Hitler, either.
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Are the same that burn crosses"

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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

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Drak wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:29 pm I’d take Bremmer’s word over Musk’s. It’s highly coincidental that Musk was parroting Russian talking points right after. Musk sort of denied talking directly to Putin with a dismissal. That’s not a denial that he spoke with Putin through other means or channels. Musk is not a good guy, and not straight with his business practices.

And appeasing fascist dictators doesn’t work. It didn’t work with Hitler, either.
Appeasing any conservatives never works.

They are ruthless, relentless eliminationists.
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gounion
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Re: Elon Musk, rip-off King!

Post by gounion »

So I guess now Musk said on Twitter that, to hell with it, he’d keep funding his system in the Ukraine. I’m quite sure that he couldn’t take the PR heat, and his stock keeps tanking as it is - down 50% - but I’m sure he has no intention of doing so.
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