Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

[Glennfs]

He often leaves for months at a time. The only ones against Israel is the right wing "Jews will not replace us" which is fine with you guys.

I do not support Hamas. Never have in any way shape or form.

But Netanyahu doing this to that city will certainly make Hamas stronger. Big mistake.

No that was your people quoting the river to the sea.

[gounion]

No that was your people quoting the river to the sea.

[Glennfs]

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/09/12116711 ... o-divisive

But you support liberals using anti semetic phrases

[bradman]

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/09/12116711 ... o-divisive

But you support liberals using anti semetic phrases

And you?

From your article....

In fact, a lot depends on context. The Likud Party of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in its original party platform in 1977 that "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."

Further........

Yet many people insist that "from the river to the sea" is a plea for peace — not violence. Tlaib herself said the phrase is "aspirational call for freedom, human rights, and peaceful coexistence, not death, destruction, or hate."

Munayyer says it's critical to listen to what people who use the phrase say they mean and not let the slogan's meaning be dictated by the most "extreme elements" of society.

"It's wrong to put words in other people's mouths and to silence them when they're telling you, 'no, actually, that's not what this means,'" he said. "If somebody uses this phrase, that doesn't mean they get to define what it means for everybody else."

[gounion]

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/09/12116711 ... o-divisive

But you support liberals using anti semetic phrases

Are trying to say “Jews will not replace us” ISN’T anti-Semitic?

[Toonces]

Who supports Hamas?

Name names. Provide evidence.

[Motor City]

Dearborn is an American city. You wouldn't know it from the WSJ op-ed. | Editorial

...To indict a community of 110,000 Michiganders takes only sweeping disingenuity: To conflate support for Palestinians with support for Hamas, and criticism of the Israeli government with antisemitism. To elevate fringe voices, as though they speak for all. To assign a single character to a complex and varied community. And to view it all through the lens of the other: This community is different. Not quite American. Not worthy of trust. “(The WSJ op-ed) is absolutely unfair, but I don’t think Dearborn residents expect fair,” Dearborn Mayor Abdullah Hammoud said this week.....

Supporting the humanity of both Israeli citizens attacked on October 7th, the hostages and hostage families in need of relief and security, and the Palestinian civilians made up of mostly children who are facing mass starvation, genocide, and mass destruction in need of relief and security. Not rooting cheerleading for wars and death and destruction.

[Motor City]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4e1bLFOd-8


No More Money For Netanyahu

Congress is about to send $14 billion in military aid to Netanyahu’s right-wing government, as he starves thousands of Palestinian children and is threatening a ground invasion of Rafah. This is UNACCEPTABLE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glmCVypEdDQ

Michigan Arab & Muslim Leaders Press White House for Ceasefire in Gaza

Senior Biden administration officials traveled to Michigan on Thursday to meet with Arab American and Muslim leaders amid growing opposition to Biden's candidacy over his support for Israel's assault on Gaza. Michigan is an important election battleground state and home to the largest percentage of Arab Americans in the United States.

Michigan House Majority Floor Leader Abraham Aiyash, the state's highest-ranking Arab and Muslim leader, joined the meeting to demand a ceasefire in Gaza, restrictions on military aid to Israel, and recommitting humanitarian aid to Palestinians.

"Now the question is: Are they going to heed the call of their constituents and do something that a majority of Americans and Democrats support in demanding for a ceasefire and an end to the violence?" demands Aiyash, who has signed on to the "Listen to Michigan" campaign and pledged to vote "uncommitted" in the state's primary on February 27.

"We're focused on ending a war and stopping the military funding that supports genocide," says Layla Elabed, Palestinian American community organizer who is spearheading the "Listen to Michigan" campaign. "Until that happens, we cannot trust Biden and we cannot commit our votes to him."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmSxTt6DF-M

Yasmeen Abutaleb: Biden ‘has very few paths’ without Michigan

[bradman]

Wonderful.

https://news.yahoo.com/egypt-threatenin ... 28782.html
Associated Press
Egypt is threatening to void its decades-old peace treaty with Israel. What does that mean?

JERUSALEM (AP) — It was a warm handshake between the unlikeliest of statesmen, conducted under the beaming gaze of U.S. President Jimmy Carter. Sunlight streamed through the trees at Camp David, Maryland, as Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin solidified a landmark agreement that has allowed over 40 years of peace between Israel and Egypt. It has served as an important source of stability in a volatile region.

That peace has held through two Palestinian uprisings and a series of wars between Israel and Hamas. But now, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowing to send Israeli troops into Rafah, a city in Gaza on the border with Egypt, the Egyptian government is threatening to void the agreement.

Here's a look at the history of the treaty and what could happen if it is nullified.

[ZoWie]

The situation started with a war crime by a terrorist group, now it seems to center on the extent of war crimes in the reaction. It appears to be evolving toward a discussion of whether answering wrongs by committing greater wrongs ever makes a situation right.

[bradman]

Egypt, Sauds, and all the others that signed on to the Abrams Accord can only take so much.....and...Bibi could give a rats ass.

What confuses me? How can they not see that they are creating more terrorists than the are killing?

[ZoWie]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind?

[bradman]

And it doesn't look like there's any stopping it.

[ZoWie]

Shakespeare wrote a whole play about how the dogs of war, once loosed, bite anyone they want.

[bradman]

Cry havoc.


https://news.yahoo.com/senate-passes-95 ... 20746.html
Associated Press
Senate passes a $95.3 billion aid package for Ukraine and Israel, but fate in the House is uncertain.

At a rally Saturday, Trump said that he had once told a NATO ally he would encourage Russia “to do whatever the hell they want” to members that are “delinquent” in their commitments to the alliance. The former president has led his party away from the foreign policy doctrines of aggressive American involvement overseas and toward an “America First” isolationism.

Evoking the slogan, Moran said, “I believe in America first, but unfortunately America first means we have to engage in the world.”

In the House, many Republicans have opposed the aid and are unlikely to cross Trump, but some key GOP lawmakers have signaled they will push to get it passed.

Speaker Mike Johnson cast new doubt on the package in a statement Monday evening, making clear that it could be weeks or months before Congress sends the legislation to President Joe Biden's desk — if at all.

[bold] What part of to little to late don't they understand?

[bradman]

https://news.yahoo.com/senate-gop-annoy ... 00632.html
The Hill
Senate GOP annoyed by new Speaker’s Ukraine move

In the end, 22 Senate Republicans backed the bill in a 70-29 vote, with one senator not voting.

Cramer said he wants to cut the new Speaker some “slack,” recognizing he’s under tremendous pressure from former President Trump to go on political offense all the time.

+

GOP senators acknowledge Johnson could face a motion to vacate the Speakership — a punishment that befell McCarthy — if he brings the Senate bill straight to the House floor.

Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) expressed disbelief about the growing influence of isolationists within the GOP.

“It would be quite a world if the Democrat Party becomes the party of national security,” he said.

House Democrats are discussing the option of gathering a majority of signatures in the chamber to force the Senate’s emergency defense spending bill to the floor of Johnson refuses to bring it up for a vote.

[ZoWie]

A better rewording might be, "Democrats are debating whether paralysis is good government, and how best to stop five people from putting the whole nation into a legislative deadlock."

[JoeMemphis]

https://news.yahoo.com/senate-gop-annoy ... 00632.html
The Hill
Senate GOP annoyed by new Speaker’s Ukraine move

+

I agree with Romney regarding isolationist. I wasn’t alive but it reminds me of what I have read about what was going on in pre WW2 in Britain and in this country. I am surprised people either don’t see or are ignoring the similarities. Putin is using the same arguments and excuses used by the Nazis.

[Motor City]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cooML3CDH_A

Israeli Forces Fire at Gazans Waiting for Food Aid, Killing at Least 100, Injuring Over 760 Others

...According to eyewitnesses, Israeli forces opened fire on the crowd who had gathered around humanitarian aid trucks. The death toll is expected to rise as hospitals in Gaza City are struggling to treat the wounded. Dr. Jadallah al-Shafei of Al-Shifa Hospital spoke to Al Jazeera shortly after the attack....

The Life & Death of Aaron Bushnell: U.S. Airman Self-Immolates Protesting U.S. Support for Israel in Gaza

In an act that has captured the attention of the world, Aaron Bushnell, a 25-year-old active-duty member of the U.S. Air Force, set himself on fire outside the Israeli Embassy in Washington Sunday to protest Israel’s assault on Gaza and U.S. support for the military campaign.

Bushnell, who live-streamed the action, said, “I will no longer be complicit in genocide,” before lighting himself on fire and repeatedly shouted “Free Palestine” as he was engulfed in the flames. He was pronounced dead in the hospital later that day. Democracy Now! speaks with Bushnell’s friend and conscientious objector Levi Pierpont, who says his friend’s death was not a suicide but was about using his life to send a message for justice.

“We have to honor the message that he left,” says Pierpont, who says Bushnell died “to get people’s attention about the genocide that’s happening in Palestine.

[Motor City]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUKOfIuFcXM

House Democrats hold briefing on Rafah crisis as Palestinian death toll passes 30,000




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGRk-7jvRAI

State Department holds briefing amid reports Israel fired on crowd waiting for aid

[Motor City]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1gR6RGGkfg

Top Netanyahu Adviser Responds to Deadly Gaza Aid Incident |Amanpour and Company

The United Nations Humanitarian Chief, Martin Griffiths, says "life is draining out of Gaza at a terrifying speed." More than 100 people have been killed while gathering around food aid trucks in Gaza City, according to the Ministry of Health there.

The timeline is under dispute, but Israeli forces say they did open fire. A local journalist who witnessed the incident told CNN that Israeli fire prompted a deadly stampede that left hundreds injured as aid trucks and people fled the scene. An Israeli official confirmed IDF troops did use live fire, saying that the crowd "posed a threat" to troops.

This comes in the context of a dire humanitarian situation in Gaza, where the U.N. says over half a million people are "one step away from famine." Mark Regev is special adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and he joins the show from Tel Aviv.

[ZoWie]

Two things. A war and a humanitarian catastrophe which has taken on a life of its own.

Not that uncommon, but it's reached the point where the war and the humanitarian catastrophe are different situations requiring different modes of thought. There will come a time for debating whether abandoning the (admittedly unenforceable) rules of war was justified in going after an entrenched force such as Hamas that had made itself inseparable from the civilian infrastructure. Right now, it's not that time. It's a time for saving the obviously innocent. Later on we can discuss who should be dragged before the world court.

That's why I started another separate thread on the humanitarian crisis, but that thread appears to be talked out because everyone seemed to agree that something needs to happen that isn't happening.

Personally, I'd rather keep the "genocide" buzzword out of it. Gaza is different. Just as bad, but different.

[Motor City]

Metro Detroiters join global day of action calling for ceasefire in Gaza

Hundreds of protesters marched in downtown Detroit on Saturday as part of a worldwide day of action calling for an end to the Israel-Palestine war. The march went from Hart Plaza to Grand Circus Park, then looped around side streets near Cass before eventually returning to Woodward and ending at Hart Plaza. About seven citations were issued to a few legal observers, medics, and bike blockers at the end of the march, but no arrests were made.

[Motor City]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7UvmswYZbA

Life in Gaza: "We Are Humans, We Deserve a Better Life"

The threat of an Israeli incursion into Rafah still looms large. Daiana Al-Bukhari is now a Rafah resident, having been displaced three times from her home in Gaza City. Despite internet connection problems, Al-Bukhari has kept her nearly 100,000 Instagram followers up to date. She joins the show to describe what life is like in Gaza under siege and heavy bombardment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF_SXWbk0-Q

What I Witnessed in Gaza Is a Holocaust: Palestinian Writer Susan Abulhawa

We speak with Palestinian novelist, poet and activist Susan Abulhawa, who is in Cairo and just returned from two weeks in Gaza. “What’s happening to people isn’t just this death and dismemberment and hunger. It is a total denigration of their personhood, of their whole society,” says Abulhawa. “What I witnessed personally in Rafah and some of the middle areas is incomprehensible, and I will call it a holocaust — and I don’t use that word lightly. But it is absolutely that.”

[ZoWie]

That holocaust (bad word choice, btw, don't cheapen the real thing) started years ago, when Gaza was left to its own devices, fenced off, and ignored, pretty much as a punishment for electing the only faction that was making any kind of material contribution to the welfare of its people, namely the non-military wing of Hamas. As was inevitable, the militant wing of Hamas removed them from power, mostly in the old-fashioned lethal way, and took over.

Everything after that was a setup job. Everyone knew that Netanyahu had never changed any of his ideas since the 1940s, and would respond to any act of inexcusable terrorism in precisely the way he did, with an air campaign aimed mostly at excavation, a near-total blockade of any outside aid, and an unfortunate side effect of turning Gaza into a death camp. There was no other possible outcome. Talk about painting yourself into a corner.

I get a strong idea that nobody really wins this one, and the world loses. It's more than a little like winning an earthquake.