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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Yes, that's true, Prof. Christopher Hitchens often pointed that out, that there was no life after death in the OT - it wasn't until "Gentle Jesus Meek and Mild" that the decision was made that the simple choice of not believing in and worshiping God in a certain way will make you burn forever.

And what REALLY shows that it's all a big lie is, if such a demand by God was made, then that God should have let everyone in the world know about it, not some tiny little sect in the middle of the desert. What about all the people in China at the time, that never even heard of Jesus?

If you simply think about it, it all falls apart.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Evangelicals as well as modern day Christians view the word abomination to refer to having sex.


Purely made up baloney.

What do you think a "modern day Christian" is?

Evangelicals and "modern day Christians" are not mutually-exclusive categories. But I'm really interested in these modern-day Christians you think even use the word "abomination," in connection to having sex.

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It is also how they justified slavery. Slaves were believed to be the Sons of Ham. Who shall be the servants of servants.


Thanks also for referencing other white Evangelical conservative Bible-based myths about minorities.

Conservative Evangelical whites, especially of the Franklin Graham/Paula White/Pat Robertson/Betsy DeVos/Jerry Falwell Jr/Southern Baptist Convention politicized cleric ilk are so theologically angry and confused. Lol your legendary anti-minority, anti-immigrant, antigay hate has you guys actually supporting the most amoral president this country has ever seen.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Rightly or wrongly reported, his statements on the Imperial President's exemption from subpoenas is probably what got him the job.

So far as I can tell, this guy is a conservative first and a judge second. He will shred any part of the 4th Amendment as to electronic data. The Second Amendment's new radial interpretation is somehow more important than any right for those the government is trying to incarcerate. He doesn't appear to believe that Congressionally authorized agency regulations are valid or necessary. Yet he is hostile to lawsuits suggesting an agency can't promulgate rules contrary to its authorization.

Gorsuch has been a let down academically. He has not lived up to his reputation for eloquence. He has not inspired anyone to follow him. Even if his vote is predictable (and sometimes welcome), so far it hasn't been very persuasive. He has not breathed any new life into the Court. That is for sure.


I didn't know you were expecting all that from Gorsuch. I was just somewhat pleased that he only has two inch blunted horns instead of ten inch sharply pointed horns.


It sounds like our general impression of Kavanaugh is about the same.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:47 pm 
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Yes, that's true, Prof. Christopher Hitchens often pointed that out, that there was no life after death in the OT - it wasn't until "Gentle Jesus Meek and Mild" that the decision was made that the simple choice of not believing in and worshiping God in a certain way will make you burn forever.

And what REALLY shows that it's all a big lie is, if such a demand by God was made, then that God should have let everyone in the world know about it, not some tiny little sect in the middle of the desert. What about all the people in China at the time, that never even heard of Jesus?

If you simply think about it, it all falls apart.


Much of Christian theology is based in misanthropy.

Conservative Christianity, be it Orthodoxy, white Evangelicalism, Fundamentalism, or some "new religious movement"/borderline cult iteration, is definitely based in misanthropy.

The 2nd commandment is "love your neighbor as yourself". As Virginia Mollencott and Letha Scanzoni, scholars at the Harvard of Fundamenatlist Baptist Bible Institutes asked in 1977, "is the homosexual my neighbor?"

Obviously, that was a rhetorical question, to which the answer 40 years later is still no. We can tell a lot about how deeply these conservative whites hate themselves by the way they regard and treat everyone else. Hey, if I had that history of mass murder, dishonesty, worship of money and things (what they themselves deride as "idolatry"), misogyny, wife and daughter abuse, colonialism, jim crow, reservations, and Know-Nothinism, I might hate myself, too.

Thankfully, in a free country, nobody has to live like conservative whites.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:05 pm 
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OK. So one other problem. The word and concept "homosexual" really dates from the 19th century, as do our ideas of sexual orientation.

The other problem with asking: "Does the Bible deal with homosexuality?" is the answer is basically no, as there really is no word/concept equivalent from Biblical times.

There's one and only big "bash" passage in the Torah - other than the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. That's Leviticus 18:22. Well, as I've noted many times, it's not really clear who it applies to or what it's meant to condemn. All it talks about is men lying with men, and thus doesn't deal with lesbianism as all. Also, it's in the Holiness Code for Levites, and it describes man lying with man as "toevah" -- ritual uncleanness - same word for eating shellfish. This is why many religious scholars really think it's more an injunction to the Levites to avoid imitating the ritual prostitution of Canaanite priests than anything else.

You won't find much else in the "OT" dealing with it.

Now, as NT scholars will note, Jesus never deals with it either. It's interesting that again only Paul of Tarsus does - like in his letter to the Romans. But again, it's problematic, because the word that Paul uses in the original Greek does not, in fact, really translate to the modern concept of "gay" or "homosexual" as there was no such word in Paul's time.

BTW, in Judaism, there really is no idea of "hell" or "damnation," not as Christians understand it - incidentally. There is a concept of "sin" but it is understood quite differently.

Hell is a pretty modern Christian belief too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:30 pm 
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Theology: belief structures created to justify actions done by people to other people or rationalize actions done to the authors by others. Said actions require imprimatur of deity which removes potential moral quandaries. Those who violate said writings are deemed sub-human by being “sinners” and/or opposing the “will of God”.

To borrow from Parke Godwin: the problem Christians have is having to share a testament with people they managed to keep out of the better neighborhoods.

While I agree with the Professor regarding the writers of the OT and the prophets the NT is more complex from a creation standpoint. I refer to Bart Ehrman for that. And don’t let us forget the Gnostic and other writings found at Nag Hammadi. Stories written down taken from oral traditions passed down over, in some cases, upwards of 90 years were by nature of humans altered. On top of that iirc the oldest extant copies of the Gospels are second century C.E. at best. We won’t even get into the inconsistencies and contradictions that populate scripture.

When someone comes up with a so-called biblical worldview that can harmonize ALL scripture let me know. There ain’t been one yet.

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