The issue that will define the 2024 election

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gounion
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The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

Cases are happening now that will destroy the chances of the GOP across the nation in 2024. We now see what the GOP is planning for women. These cases will change the landscape of elections across the nation.

In Texas, the tragic case of Kate Cox https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/08/us/texas ... index.html, where the Texas Supreme Court has refused to allow her an abortion, and Attorney General Ken Paxton has threatened any doctor or medical facility jail time and $100,000 fines if they help her, shows how little the right cares about women's health and life. This happened after a Texas Judge produced a 14-day restraining order against the state so she could have an abortion.

Paxton showed NO caring whatsoever for the women's plight. He will be the poster child for 2024. And I'm sure that her case won't be the only one - there's one in Kentucky right now too.

JoeMemphis says he's pro-choice. Glenn has said he didn't think the Supreme Court should have ended Roe v. Wade - that he thought they'd never do what they promised to do.

But neither will care that this is happening - they will vote for these lawmakers making the laws.

The last few elections where the abortion question has meant big, surprising losses for the GOP are just the beginning. The right hoped that the furor would die down with time, but it is just getting started.
Glennfs
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by Glennfs »

It might, this election like most will come down to the 30pct of us in the middle. The overreaching of abortion laws could very well be the tipping point for swing voters
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gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:25 am It might, this election like most will come down to the 30pct of us in the middle. The overreaching of abortion laws could very well be the tipping point for swing voters
I know you guys are putting all your money on just two issues - Joe Biden’s age and Hunter Biden. But no one’s going to care less than a year from now. The swing issue will be abortion, and what the right is doing to women like Kate Cox. They don’t care if she lives or dies, and it shows. NO ONE on the right will stand up for her, especially not the woman in the race, Nikki Haley.

When KANSAS votes overwhelmingly in favor of abortion, that should scare you to death. That means that in ANY state, no matter HOW red, enough votes can switch to heavily tilt the vote in favor of the dems, up and down the ballot. This is going to be the question asked every candidate in every race, and “bbbbbuuuuuttt Hunter….” Won’t make a damned bit of difference. This is a case of, this is what you wanted, live with it.
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ZoWie
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by ZoWie »

Hunter Biden is a distraction. Were it not for the bought-off media, it would play as same. With all the fuss, one would think he is president. Why no equal outrage over all the crooks in the drumpf family and its gang of old-fashioned New York racketeers?

The hot button is still the border. It, too, is a non-issue, but it's one that gets Americans in a paranoid state every time. You can depend on it. It's as close to a war as we currently have, unless the US gets into some kind of military action with Iran in the Persian Gulf or Red Sea. It would be very advisable for Biden to publicly express serious concern on the issue, to the point of moving some domestic military assets around in as photogenic a manner as possible. It is also of the most urgent importance to show some real progress in reducing messes such as the ones in Texas, even if the solution simply moves the problem back to the Mexican side.

The Republicans are vulnerable on Ukraine and Russia in general, but it's a challenge to get the media to show the same fake outrage they give on Hunter and the border.

Sorry if this post seems kind of cynical, but I have trouble seeing much difference between modern politics and show business. The main difference seems to be that showbiz counts its box office take, streaming subscriptions, and ad sales, and politics counts the dead bodies.
Last edited by ZoWie on Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:45 am Cases are happening now that will destroy the chances of the GOP across the nation in 2024. We now see what the GOP is planning for women. These cases will change the landscape of elections across the nation.

In Texas, the tragic case of Kate Cox https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/08/us/texas ... index.html, where the Texas Supreme Court has refused to allow her an abortion, and Attorney General Ken Paxton has threatened any doctor or medical facility jail time and $100,000 fines if they help her, shows how little the right cares about women's health and life. This happened after a Texas Judge produced a 14-day restraining order against the state so she could have an abortion.

Paxton showed NO caring whatsoever for the women's plight. He will be the poster child for 2024. And I'm sure that her case won't be the only one - there's one in Kentucky right now too.

JoeMemphis says he's pro-choice. Glenn has said he didn't think the Supreme Court should have ended Roe v. Wade - that he thought they'd never do what they promised to do.

But neither will care that this is happening - they will vote for these lawmakers making the laws.

The last few elections where the abortion question has meant big, surprising losses for the GOP are just the beginning. The right hoped that the furor would die down with time, but it is just getting started.
I never stated I was or was not pro choice. I supported upholding Roe. Thats a compromise in my opinion. You should spend your time and energy stating what you believe instead of misrepresenting what other people believe. But that would take some person integrity on your part. Perhaps a bridge too far.
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 11:48 am I never stated I was or was not pro choice. I supported upholding Roe. Thats a compromise in my opinion. You should spend your time and energy stating what you believe instead of misrepresenting what other people believe. But that would take some person integrity on your part. Perhaps a bridge too far.
Yes, you did, on the old board, when you were bragging about how you went to gay weddings, before the right started going after gay and trans people, and you jumped on that bandwagon.

But you always do your damndest to NOT take a position, because you don't have the ability to stand up for what you believe in, and to defend it in a debate. Your problem, not ours.
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:01 pm Yes, you did, on the old board, when you were bragging about how you went to gay weddings, before the right started going after gay and trans people, and you jumped on that bandwagon.

But you always do your damndest to NOT take a position, because you don't have the ability to stand up for what you believe in, and to defend it in a debate. Your problem, not ours.
:lol: :lol:

You spend more time putting words in the mouths of others than you spend on your own. No. I never said I was pro choice or pro life. I have always believed that Roe should have been upheld. Said the on the old board and on this board. Saying Roe should be upheld is a position. One I took. Is it prochoice. No. Is it prolife. No.

Why don’t you spend a little time on what you think. Shouldn’t take long.
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by Number6 »

The issue in the presidential election will be Trump and Biden. Most elections for president, IMO, are more of a personality contest rather than one based on issues. Trump represents the crazies who believe in conspiracy theories, racists, authoritarian, Christian nationalism, and are gullible to con artists. Biden represents those who believe in government working and getting things done over rhetoric, that he cares about people, and we have to treat all equally and humanely.

In the congressional elections, it's usually name recognition that counts which is why so many Congress members are reelected. However, I think in 2024 there will be issues like abortion, the economy, gerrymandering, immigration, the "Do-Nothing" Congress, and the attack on the military by Tuberville holding up military promotions causing military readiness issues and the lack of republican action to stop Tuberville.
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:06 pm The issue in the presidential election will be Trump and Biden. Most elections for president, IMO, are more of a personality contest rather than one based on issues. Trump represents the crazies who believe in conspiracy theories, racists, authoritarian, Christian nationalism, and are gullible to con artists. Biden represents those who believe in government working and getting things done over rhetoric, that he cares about people, and we have to treat all equally and humanely.

In the congressional elections, it's usually name recognition that counts which is why so many Congress members are reelected. However, I think in 2024 there will be issues like abortion, the economy, gerrymandering, immigration, the "Do-Nothing" Congress, and the attack on the military by Tuberville holding up military promotions causing military readiness issues and the lack of republican action to stop Tuberville.
How sad that we are going to wind up with a candidate 16 points under water running against one who is 15 points under water.
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gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:31 pm How sad that we are going to wind up with a candidate 16 points under water running against one who is 15 points under water.
What’s sad is that no one likes any of the other GOP candidates!
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

Number6 wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:06 pm The issue in the presidential election will be Trump and Biden. Most elections for president, IMO, are more of a personality contest rather than one based on issues. Trump represents the crazies who believe in conspiracy theories, racists, authoritarian, Christian nationalism, and are gullible to con artists. Biden represents those who believe in government working and getting things done over rhetoric, that he cares about people, and we have to treat all equally and humanely.

In the congressional elections, it's usually name recognition that counts which is why so many Congress members are reelected. However, I think in 2024 there will be issues like abortion, the economy, gerrymandering, immigration, the "Do-Nothing" Congress, and the attack on the military by Tuberville holding up military promotions causing military readiness issues and the lack of republican action to stop Tuberville.
I think we’ve seen with the elections since Roe was overturned is that abortion is the one that brings about REAL change in the electorate in the voting booth. It’s the one that REALLY moves voters.

But all the right wants to talk about is Hunter.
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:36 pm What’s sad is that no one likes any of the other GOP candidates!
Agreed as most of them are far better than Trump or Biden
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

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Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:39 pm Agreed as most of them are far better than Trump or Biden
So if no one likes Trump, why are they only polling around 10 percent of the GOP at best?
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

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So, Glenn, Joe, how do you feel about a Republican AG threatening any doctors that help this poor women with heavy jail time and 6-figure fines?

Does this make you proud of the party?
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

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Everyone should remember this, those who support American democracy have to win every election whereas those who support authoritarianism have to win only one election.
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ZoWie
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by ZoWie »

Yes, that's always been the case. You have to defeat the crazies every four years. Doing so was not as big a problem until Internet gave them equal access to people's heads, and media made a show out of it.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

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Let’s also remember that many Republicans want to overturn Griswold and outlaw contraception. They sure have the pulse of the nation, don’t they?
ap215
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

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gounion wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:45 am Cases are happening now that will destroy the chances of the GOP across the nation in 2024. We now see what the GOP is planning for women. These cases will change the landscape of elections across the nation.

In Texas, the tragic case of Kate Cox https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/08/us/texas ... index.html, where the Texas Supreme Court has refused to allow her an abortion, and Attorney General Ken Paxton has threatened any doctor or medical facility jail time and $100,000 fines if they help her, shows how little the right cares about women's health and life. This happened after a Texas Judge produced a 14-day restraining order against the state so she could have an abortion.

Paxton showed NO caring whatsoever for the women's plight. He will be the poster child for 2024. And I'm sure that her case won't be the only one - there's one in Kentucky right now too.

JoeMemphis says he's pro-choice. Glenn has said he didn't think the Supreme Court should have ended Roe v. Wade - that he thought they'd never do what they promised to do.

But neither will care that this is happening - they will vote for these lawmakers making the laws.

The last few elections where the abortion question has meant big, surprising losses for the GOP are just the beginning. The right hoped that the furor would die down with time, but it is just getting started.
Yes & let's remember also The MAGA Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in November 2022 & since that ruling GOP candidates suffered loss after loss in their election races & they deserved it Mississippi Attorney General Lynn Fitch was the culprit ending Roe v. Wade she deserves a ton of hell this will definitely be our strong issue in November 2024.
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ZoWie
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by ZoWie »

I wish I shared your view of humans as rational critters. For me, it's the border. It goes right to human fear of the Other.

My major takeaway from political activism is that rational thought does not win elections.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

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This WaPo opinion piece sums up what next year will look like: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ban-texas/
Whatever the eventual outcome, the lower court’s finding that strict application of the law would defy the interests of justice and simple humanity will reverberate throughout the country in innumerable situations. What about a woman whose ectopic pregnancy puts her health at risk, or a “normal pregnancy” that has dire health consequences for a woman with high blood pressure? What about a 12-year-old rape victim who might suffer permanent injury if forced to carry the rapist’s fetus to term?

There are hundreds upon hundreds of situations involving fact-specific medical complications for a pregnant woman. These cannot, without violating our fundamental sense of justice and decency, be predetermined by a bunch of politicians (mostly White, mostly male and many medically illiterate) without regard to the wishes of the woman involved.

None of this should detract from the rights of any woman to decide with her doctor for reasons she deems fit (e.g., lack of resources, age, other children, emotional turmoil) to end a pregnancy. But it does underscore that a ban that strips virtually all reasons for an abortion is a cruel, inhumane affront to women.

The Texas case has far-reaching ramifications. Any state ban presents doctors, patients and judges with an untenable decision: Violate the law, or violate the essential humanity and well-being of a woman? Voters, who have approved an unbroken string of seven abortion measures (the latest in Ohio) on state ballots and who tell pollsters in higher numbers than ever that they support abortion rights, know this basic truth.

Republicans, still in denial about the overwhelming unpopularity of their position and the handicap it places on their candidates, likely will confront this issue in virtually every race up and down the ballot. Democrats who leaned into the issue in 2022 and 2023 won handily. They show no inclination they will hold back in the 2024 elections.

At the presidential level, where GOP candidates keep touting a national ban, abortion might again be a decisive issue. President Biden’s campaign certainly believes so. “This story is shocking, it’s horrifying, and it’s heartbreaking — it’s also becoming all too commonplace in America because of Donald Trump,” Biden’s campaign said in a written statement after the Texas decision. “As Trump proudly brags, it was his Supreme Court picks who provided the deciding votes to overturn Roe v. Wade, allowing Republican extremists across the country to pass draconian bans that are hurting women and threatening doctors.” The campaign reiterated that if “Trump or other Republicans running for president get to the White House, they will try to ban abortion nationwide and the dystopian reality that women like Kate Cox in Texas are facing could be the reality everywhere.”
So my question for Joe and Glenn are this: Do either of you give a damn about women's rights? I mean, Glenn, you have daughters and grandchildren. What if they are caught in the crosshairs of these GOP policies? Would you care? Or do you just figure they - or you - can simply afford to go to another state or even country to have a safe abortion if their life and health require it?

This is what YOUR side wants - you're going to have to live with it, since you don't seem to care about the ramifications. And it will mean a LOT next year, no matter how much you want to rail about Hunter.
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:46 am This WaPo opinion piece sums up what next year will look like: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ban-texas/



So my question for Joe and Glenn are this: Do either of you give a damn about women's rights? I mean, Glenn, you have daughters and grandchildren. What if they are caught in the crosshairs of these GOP policies? Would you care? Or do you just figure they - or you - can simply afford to go to another state or even country to have a safe abortion if their life and health require it?

This is what YOUR side wants - you're going to have to live with it, since you don't seem to care about the ramifications. And it will mean a LOT next year, no matter how much you want to rail about Hunter.
Yes the extreme right have gone to far on abortion laws of that there is no doubt.
However let's not forget that the extreme left wants abortion legal up to the moment of birth.
Of course they all say it is only to save the mother's life. Except they somehow forget to add that to their proposals.
At the end of the day there is not much of a political home for moderates like me or Joe. As the republican leaders have been taken over by the far right and the democrats are dominated by the extreme left.
Leaving people in the middle a Sophie's choice. Well so far I just can't side with people who want to change our country into a socialist haven. However I will admit it is getting much closer to the point where the destruction the socialist left will do might be less worse than the extreme right.
Either way though if people on the extreme right or those on the far left who you support ever get unchecked power our nation will have about 25 years left.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 12:26 pm Yes the extreme right have gone to far on abortion laws of that there is no doubt.
However let's not forget that the extreme left wants abortion legal up to the moment of birth.
Of course they all say it is only to save the mother's life. Except they somehow forget to add that to their proposals.
At the end of the day there is not much of a political home for moderates like me or Joe. As the republican leaders have been taken over by the far right and the democrats are dominated by the extreme left.
Leaving people in the middle a Sophie's choice. Well so far I just can't side with people who want to change our country into a socialist haven. However I will admit it is getting much closer to the point where the destruction the socialist left will do might be less worse than the extreme right.
Either way though if people on the extreme right or those on the far left who you support ever get unchecked power our nation will have about 25 years left.
Too bad that you perpetuate a falsehood. It is simply not true that the Dems want abortion to moment of birth. PROVABLY false. Too bad you can’t deal in facts.
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 12:26 pm Yes the extreme right have gone to far on abortion laws of that there is no doubt.
However let's not forget that the extreme left wants abortion legal up to the moment of birth.
Of course they all say it is only to save the mother's life. Except they somehow forget to add that to their proposals.
At the end of the day there is not much of a political home for moderates like me or Joe. As the republican leaders have been taken over by the far right and the democrats are dominated by the extreme left.
Leaving people in the middle a Sophie's choice. Well so far I just can't side with people who want to change our country into a socialist haven. However I will admit it is getting much closer to the point where the destruction the socialist left will do might be less worse than the extreme right.
Either way though if people on the extreme right or those on the far left who you support ever get unchecked power our nation will have about 25 years left.
Too bad that you perpetuate a falsehood. It is simply not true that the Dems want abortion to moment of birth. PROVABLY false. Too bad you can’t deal in facts.
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 12:44 pm Too bad that you perpetuate a falsehood. It is simply not true that the Dems want abortion to moment of birth. PROVABLY false. Too bad you can’t deal in facts.

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/05/the-p ... abortions/

In typical democratic party fashion they do not restrict abortion up to the moment of birth. But, leave that an option for states.
So they once again can deny what they support when it benefits them politically.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 1:23 pm https://www.factcheck.org/2023/05/the-p ... abortions/

In typical democratic party fashion they do not restrict abortion up to the moment of birth. But, leave that an option for states.
So they once again can deny what they support when it benefits them politically.
Your link does not back you up. This one lays it out more to the point: False. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... fter-birt/
Cruz said Democrats support "abortion up until the moment of birth and even, horrifically, after that."

Cruz’s remark hinged on an inaccurate characterization of legislation considered in Virginia’s House of Delegates in 2019 and comments made by the state’s Democratic governor at the same time.

State law in Virginia allows doctors to perform abortions up until the moment of birth, but only in cases when three physicians certify that a continued pregnancy is likely to result in the death of the woman. The author of the bill clarified earlier remarks to say it would not allow an abortion to be performed on a woman during a live birth.

PolitiFact has rated multiple statements making similar claims about Democrats supporting the execution of children False.

We rate this claim False.
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