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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:43 am 
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Ike, I can understand why you feel that way, since you don't know what happens when workers try to unionize. Workers undergo threats, fear tactics, disinformation and firings in a quite sophisticated campaign by companies bent on keeping unions out.

Here's one website that explains the strategies and tactics. There are others. I can give you my assurance that this site is completely truthful, and the scorched-earth tactics aren't the exception, they are the rule, done almost every time.

That's the reason there aren't more places unionized.


I actually do understand it, man. But what I don't believe is that the obstacles are anywhere near as bad as they were when the enemies were the likes of Carnegie, Morgan, Rockefeller, Ford, and Jay "I can hire half the working class to kill the other half" Gould. As bad as when strikers were being gunned down in the streets by the Pnkertons.

And those people werent gonna let anybody stop them.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:48 am 
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Ike, I can understand why you feel that way, since you don't know what happens when workers try to unionize. Workers undergo threats, fear tactics, disinformation and firings in a quite sophisticated campaign by companies bent on keeping unions out.

Here's one website that explains the strategies and tactics. There are others. I can give you my assurance that this site is completely truthful, and the scorched-earth tactics aren't the exception, they are the rule, done almost every time.

That's the reason there aren't more places unionized.



Jason Bateman...The Ozarks

A very good NETFLIX show, where the two warring factions over a casino are the drug cartel and the corrupt union boss. The show makes the union out to be corrupt as if that is the norm.

This is BULLSHIT and makes for good TV sure, but NOT TRUE. And even if the head of a given union was corrupted, doesnt change the fact that WORKERS are bettered by the union no matter what happens at the top.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:10 pm 
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I actually do understand it, man. But what I don't believe is that the obstacles are anywhere near as bad as they were when the enemies were the likes of Carnegie, Morgan, Rockefeller, Ford, and Jay "I can hire half the working class to kill the other half" Gould. As bad as when strikers were being gunned down in the streets by the Pnkertons.

And those people werent gonna let anybody stop them.

You have a point. No, it's not as bad as it was. But remember, during the days of the robber barons, unions were much smaller. Heck, they were basically illegal. Workers unionizied when their backs were up against the wall. But their tactics, while illegal, were more effective. For instance, the sit-down strikes that unionized the auto industry.

It wasn't until the New Deal and the National Labor relations Act that unionization swept the land.

The tactics the corporations use are psychologically tested to find ways to pick off support for the union one person at a time. However, I believe that those tactics are losing their effectiveness, and we're going to see more unionization. The main thing that unions need to do is get more radical, to stand up and FIGHT. That's what people want.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Jason Bateman...The Ozarks

A very good NETFLIX show, where the two warring factions over a casino are the drug cartel and the corrupt union boss. The show makes the union out to be corrupt as if that is the norm.

This is BULLSHIT and makes for good TV sure, but NOT TRUE. And even if the head of a given union was corrupted, doesnt change the fact that WORKERS are bettered by the union no matter what happens at the top.

Very much not true.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Ozark is a very good show. But it's obvious fiction.

There are really three factions though. The Cartel, The Snells, and the Kansas City Mob.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:10 pm 
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You have a point. No, it's not as bad as it was. But remember, during the days of the robber barons, unions were much smaller. Heck, they were basically illegal. Workers unionizied when their backs were up against the wall. But their tactics, while illegal, were more effective. For instance, the sit-down strikes that unionized the auto industry.

It wasn't until the New Deal and the National Labor relations Act that unionization swept the land.

The tactics the corporations use are psychologically tested to find ways to pick off support for the union one person at a time. However, I believe that those tactics are losing their effectiveness, and we're going to see more unionization. The main thing that unions need to do is get more radical, to stand up and FIGHT. That's what people want.


I'd also say, maybe life just isnt quite bad enough like it was for workers at the dawn of the industrial revolution. Seems to me workers today live in a worker's paradise compared with NYC or Chicago in 1905. They had a 100 sq ft tenement with no bathroom for a family of 6 with no birth control and no abortion services. Nice 18 hour work days...6 days a week. And one vacation day a year at Coney Island with a half million other victims.

Today we got a two bedroom apartment with a section 8 voucher...cable TV with 4 premium channels...and a 2009 Accord with working A/C. Why would we want to risk all this for some fucking collective bargaining???

-edit-

I was just thinking...it was Carnegie's asshole temporary partner Henry Clay Frlck who sicked the Pinkerton gunners on striking steel workers.

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Last edited by Ike Bana on Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:57 pm 
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I once posted that those who control the past, control the future. I was chastised.

Where in civics or government or history classes in schools is the labor struggle, the destruction of indigenous peoples, the social warfare waged by wealth in splitting poor whites and poor minorities? The lie of the free market equaling freedom?

Instead American Dream bullshit, non-existent “rugged individualism”, Christian nation crap and the indispensable nation agitprop is pumped into the minds of kids.

You ignore the past and allow it to be distorted and this is the end result.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:40 pm 
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I once posted that those who control the past, control the future. I was chastised.

Where in civics or government or history classes in schools is the labor struggle, the destruction of indigenous peoples, the social warfare waged by wealth in splitting poor whites and poor minorities? The lie of the free market equaling freedom?

Instead American Dream bullshit, non-existent “rugged individualism”, Christian nation crap and the indispensable nation agitprop is pumped into the minds of kids.

You ignore the past and allow it to be distorted and this is the end result.


I don't believe it was wealth that had the Teamsters beating up UFW organizers and members, or that guided their complicity in and with segregating the country by race, like in the shipyards of San Francisco and Richmond.

To talk about this past means you also have to talk about discrimination against minorities within the trades, within the unions, fully segregated unions, the so-called Reagan Democrats, and the current penchant of progressive whites to tell minorities to shut up and focus on "the white working class" voter.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:46 pm 
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When someone can tell me what a true conservative is and how today’s conservatism matches or diverges from that then perhaps further discussion can be had. Terms need to be defined. One of most critical from the right is the appropriation from civil histo-mythology of the word “freedom” or sometimes “liberty”. It is intriguing to me when I see websites like buckeyeinstitute.org where government is portrayed as oppressing. Agitprop like “the weight of the government” is thrown around.

Here, imo, is the bottom line. Despite FDR saving capitalism and capitalists (I do not speak of small business as they cannot and do not wield political influence on an appreciable scale) or rent-seekers if you will those same rent-seekers despise not being able to help themselves to whatever piece of the pie they so desire. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Rent-seekers have power and want absolute power. Thus the disengaging of the economy from its correct place as part of socio-political relations. Attempts by economic theologians to cast everything in a the light of market relations is disengenuous at best and dangerous in general. They cast jargon such as externalities as having nothing to do with “the market” when in fact they are the result of that same theology. When something violates or negates their theology they simply ignore it. So it is with the professor in the opening post. Her unwillingness in the video to discuss her underlying issues/belief structures smacks of econonimc theology detached from society and the real world.


I've usually seen today's conservatives contrasted with yesterday's Eisenhower-era conservatives.

I don't see any difference.

Buncha bigots.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:21 pm 
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I don't believe it was wealth that had the Teamsters beating up UFW organizers and members, or that guided their complicity in and with segregating the country by race, like in the shipyards of San Francisco and Richmond.

To talk about this past means you also have to talk about discrimination against minorities within the trades, within the unions, fully segregated unions, the so-called Reagan Democrats, and the current penchant of progressive whites to tell minorities to shut up and focus on "the white working class" voter.

Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant. The Teamsters may have been racists but wealth benefited. Zinn laid out much of this including poor whites working with blacks during the end of the long nineteenth century for labor power. Racism has always been around. And it has ALWAYS been used as a tool to divide poor whites and poor blacks.

Minorities do not need to shut up and focus on white working class voters. Both need to be working for an equitable economy based upon providing workers with the fruits of their labor. Anything else benefits wealth and benefits racists including the Republican Party. As long as the Republican Party is the party of racists and wealth and the party work to stir up racial enmity as well as locking inequality in place in the economy we will continue to have a society that is driving downwards at an ever increasing rate of speed.

What is waiting at the bottom ain't pretty.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:55 pm 
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I don't believe it was wealth that had the Teamsters beating up UFW organizers and members, or that guided their complicity in and with segregating the country by race, like in the shipyards of San Francisco and Richmond.

To talk about this past means you also have to talk about discrimination against minorities within the trades, within the unions, fully segregated unions, the so-called Reagan Democrats, and the current penchant of progressive whites to tell minorities to shut up and focus on "the white working class" voter.

You are completely correct, unions WERE racist and misogynist, and often our history is something we need to look upon with shame. Many unions would shun non-white workers. The AFL, mostly made of craft unions, were racist. The CIO - Congress of Industrial Organizations - allowed blacks. They couldn't have organized the Steel and Auto sector without allowing blacks in.

At some point, and I wasn't able to find the date right away - even the AFL told member unions they must allow blacks in order to remain in the federation. It may have been when the AFL and CIO united.

But the corporations have used the blacks against unions. In the early days, blacks were used as strikebreakers.

I'm proud that the unions have renounced their racism and allow everyone in, and treat everyone equally.

But there is a great book about a little-known story. Civil Rights Unionism is a book about a union at Reynolds Tobacco in North Carolina in the forties. In Jim Crow North Carolina, blacks and whites worked together and formed a union. It was successful for a time, until the company red-baited the leadership and broke the union up.

The Right-to-Work movement also has it's roots in racism. While you're right that the unions have a deplorable history of racism in some areas, the wealthy have always done everything they could to use that racism against all working people.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:20 pm 
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I once posted that those who control the past, control the future. I was chastised.

Where in civics or government or history classes in schools is the labor struggle, the destruction of indigenous peoples, the social warfare waged by wealth in splitting poor whites and poor minorities? The lie of the free market equaling freedom?

Instead American Dream bullshit, non-existent “rugged individualism”, Christian nation crap and the indispensable nation agitprop is pumped into the minds of kids.

You ignore the past and allow it to be distorted and this is the end result.


Well bird...it absolutely started right at the beginning when Jefferson the slave trader wrote "...we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal..." Of course everybody knew right at the beginning that if he had been honest he would have written, "...we hold these truths to be self-evident that all white men of property are created equal..."

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant. The Teamsters may have been racists but wealth benefited. Zinn laid out much of this including poor whites working with blacks during the end of the long nineteenth century for labor power. Racism has always been around.


So has classism. And?

Quote:
And it has ALWAYS been used as a tool to divide poor whites and poor blacks.

Minorities do not need to shut up and focus on white working class voters. Both need to be working for an equitable economy based upon providing workers with the fruits of their labor. Anything else benefits wealth and benefits racists including the Republican Party. As long as the Republican Party is the party of racists and wealth and the party work to stir up racial enmity as well as locking inequality in place in the economy we will continue to have a society that is driving downwards at an ever increasing rate of speed.

What is waiting at the bottom ain't pretty.


This level of overdefensiveness and dismissiveness of pervasive racism in the US is the reason class-first white analysis will always be playing catch-up to what is actually happening.

The Teamsters aren't "racist" nor is racism some kind of natural state. What I mentioned was a very specific instance and situation in mid-late 1970s union organizing.

As long as class- and white-aspirants believe they are entitled to bigger, better, and more than everyone else, they're going to be trapped into crabs in a barrel mentality.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:38 pm 
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You are completely correct, unions WERE racist and misogynist, and often our history is something we need to look upon with shame. Many unions would shun non-white workers. The AFL, mostly made of craft unions, were racist. The CIO - Congress of Industrial Organizations - allowed blacks. They couldn't have organized the Steel and Auto sector without allowing blacks in.

At some point, and I wasn't able to find the date right away - even the AFL told member unions they must allow blacks in order to remain in the federation. It may have been when the AFL and CIO united.

But the corporations have used the blacks against unions. In the early days, blacks were used as strikebreakers.

I'm proud that the unions have renounced their racism and allow everyone in, and treat everyone equally.

But there is a great book about a little-known story. Civil Rights Unionism is a book about a union at Reynolds Tobacco in North Carolina in the forties. In Jim Crow North Carolina, blacks and whites worked together and formed a union. It was successful for a time, until the company red-baited the leadership and broke the union up.

The Right-to-Work movement also has it's roots in racism. While you're right that the unions have a deplorable history of racism in some areas, the wealthy have always done everything they could to use that racism against all working people.


It would be one thing if it was just an instance of corporations using blacks as strikebreakers against unions.

That condition could only come about because blacks were not permitted to join union or were segregated into black-only unions by whites. That's not a boss or capital or corporation decision. That's a labor-leadership decision based in a familiar social problem.

But as we know, it has not simply been black workers who have been shut out of not only unions but Filipnos, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Mexican, and Latinos from all over Lain America.

If it didn't work so well, so-called wealth would not trouble themselves to use it.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:10 pm 
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It would be one thing if it was just an instance of corporations using blacks as strikebreakers against unions.

That condition could only come about because blacks were not permitted to join union or were segregated into black-only unions by whites. That's not a boss or capital or corporation decision. That's a labor-leadership decision based in a familiar social problem.

But as we know, it has not simply been black workers who have been shut out of not only unions but Filipnos, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Mexican, and Latinos from all over Lain America.

If it didn't work so well, so-called wealth would not trouble themselves to use it.

Agree completely. The unions only hurt themselves back then. I believe the labor movement has come a long ways, but of course, we have a long ways to go, but we're always working to improve.

As a matter of fact, I recently attended the national Pride at Work conference, the LGBTQ+ constituency organization of the AFL-CIO, of which my union heavily supports and participates in. It was a lot of fun, and I learned a lot. Labor is moving forward to support our workers who are LGBTQ+, even if some of our members aren't. But the group is working on pushing things like inclusive language in contracts, by-laws, constitutions and policies, as well as issues like transgender, collective bargaining rights, healthcare and bathroom access.

I've even been using the gender-neutral bathrooms! Hey, I'm from Kansas, it took getting used to! :rw)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:12 pm 
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getting back to those pre 1930s era work hours and people dying on the job in the bathroom of heart attack.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:27 pm 
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Agree completely. The unions only hurt themselves back then. I believe the labor movement has come a long ways, but of course, we have a long ways to go, but we're always working to improve.

As a matter of fact, I recently attended the national Pride at Work conference, the LGBTQ+ constituency organization of the AFL-CIO, of which my union heavily supports and participates in. It was a lot of fun, and I learned a lot. Labor is moving forward to support our workers who are LGBTQ+, even if some of our members aren't. But the group is working on pushing things like inclusive language in contracts, by-laws, constitutions and policies, as well as issues like transgender, collective bargaining rights, healthcare and bathroom access.

I've even been using the gender-neutral bathrooms! Hey, I'm from Kansas, it took getting used to! :rw)


I think I told you this before, but I was with the first Pride At Work contingent in SF Pride in the mid-90s. It's not easy now being out at work, 2x years later, but it was basically impossible being 1- out, 2- at work, and 3- working in the labor movement at the time.

Things were also much different then in the LGBTQ comm; for one, that was also the first or second year Apple, Microsoft, etc., also had contingents in SF pride. A couple of the AIDS-oriented nonprofits here were also organizing, with their leadership -- you guessed it -- busting the organizing and hiring union-busting lawyers. :problem:

The gays didn't want to hear from us "bi's" and lipstick lesbians, and sure as hell did not want to hear anything from trans persons. :problem: :problem: :problem: :problem:

A couple years later, I'd be well into a tech career and got a temp job at an aviation industry maintenance operations center that was going through a site-wide upgrade of desktop computers. I worked with maybe 20 people, 4 of them gay and out to each other (not anyone else; eventually I became no. 5)...2 of the guys were Latino, two of the women were together -- old-school 2nd wave white lesbians, and though it was obvious as day and everybody knew, they were not free to be open. They were all company employees, and union. They h-a-t-e-d me, haha.

I discovered why, eventually; management ran around telling the union employees that they were paying $90/hr for us temps. What I knew was that I was getting $15/hr. But it was a pretty typical manager ploy. Sure, they were forking out $90 for my labor. $90 went to the company they hired to do the desktop migration, which ran to the agency to which they paid $60 and then the agency got us for $15. or whatever the stupefying math is; doesn't matter. It wasn't being used as strikebreakers, but the idea is similar: tell the union the niggers are making more than them so they'll hate the fellow worker who is actually doing worse than they are, and keep the rage directed off of the people actually making these choices.

Once I told them how much we actually make, things were quite different, but I also asked to be transferred off of that job and to NEVER be put into a union shop, ever again.

Being out on the job is no picnic.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:31 pm 
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getting back to those pre 1930s era work hours and people dying on the job in the bathroom of heart attack.

There were a lot of things. Child labor, for instance, and the lack of wage an hour laws. Every time a state tried to set laws concerning these, the Lochner Court would knock them down as unconstitutional.

Workers hurt on the job were simply fired, with no treatment or health care. When you got older and slower, your body destroyed by the back-breaking work, you were also fired.

When Brad says workers want incentive, I would point to history.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:37 pm 
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There were a lot of things. Child labor, for instance, and the lack of wage an hour laws. Every time a state tried to set laws concerning these, the Lochner Court would knock them down as unconstitutional.

Workers hurt on the job were simply fired, with no treatment or health care. When you got older and slower, your body destroyed by the back-breaking work, you were also fired.

When Brad says workers want incentive, I would point to history.


++++++++++

Those of us in the so-called gig economy, whatever that's supposed to be, are in a somewhat similar boat.

It's not that there isn't any job security. Any client at any time can decide to duck out of our contracts at any moment, for any reason. If you get sick and miss a deadline/deliverable, there are about a million other techs ready to send them a competitive proposal.

Sure, I can take them to court for breach of contract, hahahahahaha

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:40 pm 
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I think I told you this before, but I was with the first Pride At Work contingent in SF Pride in the mid-90s. It's not easy now being out at work, 2x years later, but it was basically impossible being 1- out, 2- at work, and 3- working in the labor movement at the time.

Things were also much different then in the LGBTQ comm; for one, that was also the first or second year Apple, Microsoft, etc., also had contingents in SF pride. A couple of the AIDS-oriented nonprofits here were also organizing, with their leadership -- you guessed it -- busting the organizing and hiring union-busting lawyers. :problem:

The gays didn't want to hear from us "bi's" and lipstick lesbians, and sure as hell did not want to hear anything from trans persons. :problem: :problem: :problem: :problem:

A couple years later, I'd be well into a tech career and got a temp job at an aviation industry maintenance operations center that was going through a site-wide upgrade of desktop computers. I worked with maybe 20 people, 4 of them gay and out to each other (not anyone else; eventually I became no. 5)...2 of the guys were Latino, two of the women were together. They were all company employees and union. They h-a-t-e-d me, haha.

I discovered why, eventually; management ran around telling the union employees that they were paying $90/hr for us temps. What I knew was that I was getting $15/hr. But it was a pretty typical manager ploy. Sure, they were forking out $90 for my labor. $90 went to the company they hired to do the desktop migration, which ran to the agency to which they paid $60 and then the agency got us for $15. or whatever the stupefying math is; doesn't matter. It wasn't being used as strikebreakers, but the idea is similar: tell the union the niggers are making more than them so they'll hate the fellow worker who is actually doing worse than they are, and keep the rage directed off of the people actually making these choices.

Once I told them how much we actually make, things were quite different, but I also asked to be transferred off of that job and to NEVER be put into a union shop, ever again.

Being out on the job is no picnic.

I agree. I can't imagine. One thing I've always known about White Male Privilege, I know I have it, but I always try to put myself into other people's shoes.

Back in the nineties, two guys in my shop came out. I was surprised, but everyone really took it in stride, and were pretty accepting - it was a pretty redneck crew! Both men had been in the shop for several years and were liked and respected, and I'm sure that helped.

I was pretty proud of my co-workers for not making things hard for them. So many were strongly supportive, if the Evangelicals had a problem, they kept it to themselves.

But it's always baby steps, a progression. We've had to deal with local representatives who didn't want to help LGBTQ members, and we've had to come down HARD on them. My union does NOT put up with reps that won't fully represent ALL members. Of course, I'm not going to pretend this wasn't a somewhat recent change - we started really working on this in the early 2000's.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Well bird...it absolutely started right at the beginning when Jefferson the slave trader wrote "...we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal..." Of course everybody knew right at the beginning that if he had been honest he would have written, "...we hold these truths to be self-evident that all white men of property are created equal..."


Well.

There are men, and then there are men.

Most men aren't men, to them.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:53 pm 
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unions are made up of people and whats in peoples hearts or the representatives hearts.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:02 pm 
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I was pretty proud of my co-workers for not making things hard for them. So many were strongly supportive, if the Evangelicals had a problem, they kept it to themselves.


That's really all I care about in a workplace.

I don't give a tinker's damn what people think; it's a free country. I care what they do, and what kind of laws they make.

It's funny that at that point is where the gloves really come off when it comes to discrimination.

One thing we were talking about then was partner benefits (gay marriage was still illegal, though a few big corps were touting that they "granted" them to samesex couples), and the lack of standard policies in getting canned because the boss finds out you're gay. This is still legal, i.e. there are no standardized protections in 20 US states. Are you up on unions and Title VII advocacy for LGBTQ workers?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:29 pm 
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That's really all I care about in a workplace.

I don't give a tinker's damn what people think; it's a free country. I care what they do, and what kind of laws they make.

It's funny that at that point is where the gloves really come off when it comes to discrimination.

One thing we were talking about then was partner benefits (gay marriage was still illegal, though a few big corps were touting that they "granted" them to samesex couples), and the lack of standard policies in getting canned because the boss finds out you're gay. This is still legal, i.e. there are no standardized protections in 20 US states. Are you up on unions and Title VII advocacy for LGBTQ workers?

Yes, that was a major point of discussion during the conference. As I said, we have a loooong ways to go. Of course, most union contracts protects LGBTQ+ workers, as employers need just cause to fire workers. Unionized airlines such as Southwest were some of the first corporations to recognize rights and benefits to LGBTQ+ workers and their families.

As an aside, I was told at the conference there were something like 50 sexualities that have been discovered (if "discovered" is the right word). I wouldn't know where to begin... That's why I'm adding the "+" to LGBTQ.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Yes, that was a major point of discussion during the conference. As I said, we have a loooong ways to go. Of course, most union contracts protects LGBTQ+ workers, as employers need just cause to fire workers. Unionized airlines such as Southwest were some of the first corporations to recognize rights and benefits to LGBTQ+ workers and their families.

As an aside, I was told at the conference there were something like 50 sexualities that have been discovered (if "discovered" is the right word). I wouldn't know where to begin... That's why I'm adding the "+" to LGBTQ.


Yea it's probably even more than that. It's something of a matrix. The younger set with help from older theorists, especially trans theorists, have helped elucidate the fludity of gender, sexuality, and the asexuality spectrum.

Harking back to that story I just told, it was still controversial to refer to oneself as queer (still is among the older set. They get very nervous and angry about that word. We didn't care :) ). People still get smacked down for it. But we chose it because "lesbian" and "gay" weren't really accurate, and neither was "bi". The concept of being queer was too "blanket" and vague for some, and because that is how we/people actually lived our lives, it's exactly why it was appealing. Keep 'em guessin. I still use it to describe myself.

The young set now is really fleshing that out and putting words and definitions to the blanket term "queer". I'm all for it. It's helped a lot of us older "queers," who are still looked down at as ridiculous whippersnappers, put some definition to our personal experiences.

I think what it comes down to for me is, each person is entitled to both human rights, civil rights, and equal rights. Still to the present moment, a certain very limited, myopic model of humanity has been granted that. I say granted because their rights/privs/status/$$$/etc has indeed been doled out at the expense of everyone else.

As it applies to labor, work, working for a living, the issues are yet still very basic. Despite the stereotype of the two white gay males in their apartment at the top of the Castro with the views of both bridges and purebred pug with the Brooks Brothers tartan wool blend harness and convertible BMW, you can trace the poverty levels of LGBTQ workers: the lack of protections from getting canned and harassed on the job, the food scarcity, the number of nonwhite LGBTQs on EBT, and of course our homeless youth (of which I was one), and LGBTQ kids having to navigate the foster and adoption industries.

So many of the above, the houseless kids, trans women and men, lesbian-headed samesex parent families & their kids, so many are working people of color who can only dream of being a union member and getting a steady paycheck, benefits, some semblance of recourse against white conservative sharks while on the job, and instead toil in the so-called gig economy/formerly known as "temps" because that's all that's hiring. I know this, because it describes me and basically all the queer/LGBTQ nonwhite people I know. These conditions have a history.

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