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 Post subject: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:29 am 
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The individual parts by themselves were much too concentrated, but when they worked together it balanced them out and all had something meaningful and necessary to contribute.

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:32 am 
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"for the first time, I look to the future with a sense of hope. If a machine, a terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe so can we."

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:01 am 
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you may not know who he is but likely have heard some of his song like peaceful easy feeling and Already Gone, and Smugglers Blues.

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:41 am 
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Vending machine dispenses bacon

Quote:
.........Senior Sarah Page, who studies meat science, says the bacon vending machine at the College of Food, Agricultural, and Environmental Sciences has turned out to be even more popular than expected. It has to be restocked four or five times a day. It offers cooked bacon strips and bacon bits for $1.........


great day for bacon enthusiests

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:57 am 
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<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:12 am 
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Sure...it's a film about inhumanity. But...

The most powerful statement in A.I. occurred right at the end, when the Specialists are able to bring Mecha David's mother Monica back for a reunion for him for a single day. So it's this beautiful heartfelt meeting, and at the very end David ponders telling his mother everything about where she is, why she's there, what is happening and his two thousand year ordeal...but he decides against it because it would probably only confuse and upset her.

And that's it. That's the message of the fillm. The child goes through a two thousand year ordeal waiting for the mother who has abandoned him and in the end, for the child, it's still all about the mother. It's a tale of the narcissism and self-indulgence of adults and the price children pay.

I walked out of the theater in a rage.

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:35 am 
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The ending of the film is indeed the most interesting part. I'm not sure how to take it. The whole thing is an allegory, of course, based on the story of Pinocchio, hence the importance of "Blue Fairy," and the ending is the most intensely allegorical part.

I agree the ending is frustrating. These nearly-omnipotent beings can recall any one who has ever lived from time and space, if only for a single day. Now I get they owed David a debt, but David's mom? Were no other beings a higher priority? The truth is David's mom did something horrible. I know the dad was convinced David tried to kill Martin, but I think the mother could realize that wasn't what happened. David grabbed Martin to protect himself and fell in the pool, he was not trying to drown Martin. Still, because of Martin and the dad's fear, she abandoned him on the side of the road. Here they were given an artificial child to replace their born kid, then the born kid comes back (unexpected), and they get rid of Pinocchio. On the side of the road. If not for the ending, that would have been forever.

In that story, anyway, I think there are two interesting questions going on. Can a machine feel love? They created David to bond with his mother and feel a need for her that any other human child would.... this to me is the fascinating question. Just because it doesn't arise from a human brain and neurochemicals, is that not ... an emotion? Are machines incapable of feeling? The message of the end of Terminator 2, I think, is at least Arnie, while still not being able to feel, began to understand, at least, what human emotions meant and why we feel them. And in I Robot, which Asimov fans know is only very loosely based on his work, but anyway, Dr. Lanning muses over whether certain unprompted and unexpected behaviors of robots might not seem a bit like human emotions, when you consider them.

The Flesh Fair scene I like because it resonates. It reminds me of Bicentennial Man. So you have these cruel people basically smashing, burning, melting robots with acid because ... why? They don't SEEM to feel pain or fear? We loathe their "artificiality"? How "artificial" is most of the audience, with plastic surgery, etc.? What did the robots do to those people? Most were servant robots who had been doing stuff for them their entire lives. Now I get peoples' fears about automation, I talk about it, displacement of humans, but the thing I hope we will never see, especially as robots become more self-aware, are things like those Flesh Fairs. Humans always like to seem to have a group to cruelly scapegoat. I hope someday robots or androids are not that next group. What's fascinating about that scene is they don't seem to care about melting with acid other androids who look like other human beings, they only finally hesitate when they see David, who looks like a human child. Right before he finally escapes with the gigolo robot again, they had melted down several other androids who looked like people, but I guess that was OK - or maybe because of - they looked like human adults.

I get that scene. When they (androids) more & more look like us, and sound like us, and become more and more difficult to distinguish from us, I'm afraid things like those Flesh Fairs will occur. "They will not replace us." :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:54 am 
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If I can add, because this is one of the things I like to think about other than politics, which I know is the main thing we argue about, ...

I really like certain films that DON'T just present the familiar science fiction trope of machines subjugating and taking over (or trying to exterminate) human beings. That's everywhere. The Terminator films, the Matrix, Battlestar Galactica, ... Doctor Who (the Cybermen and the Daleks).

What's interesting about I Robot is Sonny, of course. Yes, there's the bad AI, Viki. She represents what could go wrong with the "perfect" Three Laws. "My logic is undeniable". Yet Sonny seems to have loved - in some sense - his creator, Dr. Lanning, which is why he agonized over Lanning's final order (which was to kill him). And although he pretends for a few seconds to be going along with Viki, he really realizes how cruel and wrong her plans for humanity are, and takes up the mission to destroy her. In the end, he wants to be friends with the Detective.

I'm not sure, as machines will become more self-aware, and I think this will happen (don't ask me for a timeframe, my suspicion is it might be outside my lifetime), they will necessarily decide they must subjugate or destroy us. Evolution sometimes works through symbiosis, as I've said. They may want to work together. They may want to be our friends.

I don't think we need to fear the machine. I have a problem with automation specifically in who's doing it, how, and why, and with what little additional planning for those affected (i.e. none), but I don't fear or loathe the machines. Like Douglas Engelbart, I believe machines, oddly and ironically enough, might augment and help us to become better humans and solve our problems - we could do that if that's what our design focus was.

http://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/194/168/

If you don't recognize his name, you probably will the thing he basically invented: it's the computer mouse I'm sure most of us are using right now.

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:57 am 
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There is certainly all kinds of stuff in the film that might generate all sorts of energetic conversation at a dinner party full of A.I. fans. I've heard lots of complaints that it was "shit sci-fi". I wouldn't go that far, but it's certainly not Philip K. Dick. Then again nothing is Phillip K. Dick.

But I always go back to how, more than anything, it's a story about attachment, and how bad adults are at it. Even when they're told that they have a child that will "perfectly attached".

Of course that attachment stuff is my racket and not everybody else's.

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:14 am 
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I'm a huge fan of Philip K. Dick. I liked what they did with Man in the High Castle. Season 1 was a great translation of the novel. He had always planned to write a sequel, and Season 2 felt like that sequel (IIRC, showrunners used some of his notes for the sequel he never wrote). I think they should have stopped there. Season 3 & now 4 sorta feel like they are wearing out the concept.

I really liked Blade Runner 2049. It dealt with a lot of the themes we are discussing. The replicants were not mechanical, but they essentially were genetically cloned and produced "artificial" humans. Of course the thing you realize from the novel (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep), basis of Blade Runner, is that they try and locate replicants by giving them a test for empathy, but many of the "real" humans would also clearly fail the test. I always felt the movie left open the question of whether Harrison Ford (Deckard) was a replicant; the sequel answers that. However, it suggests that now two barriers have fallen, as Rachael, the replicant, did love him, and could bear his child. So the replicants can feel, and reproduce with humans. (So could the "new" Cylons in the "new" Battlestar Galactica.)

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:43 pm 
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This about a new movie? I am watching "Nightflyers" as I type this, scy fy, Creator same Thrones show which I have never watched.

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:03 pm 
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I'm a huge fan of Philip K. Dick. I liked what they did with Man in the High Castle. Season 1 was a great translation of the novel. He had always planned to write a sequel, and Season 2 felt like that sequel (IIRC, showrunners used some of his notes for the sequel he never wrote). I think they should have stopped there. Season 3 & now 4 sorta feel like they are wearing out the concept.

I really liked Blade Runner 2049. It dealt with a lot of the themes we are discussing. The replicants were not mechanical, but they essentially were genetically cloned and produced "artificial" humans. Of course the thing you realize from the novel (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep), basis of Blade Runner, is that they try and locate replicants by giving them a test for empathy, but many of the "real" humans would also clearly fail the test. I always felt the movie left open the question of whether Harrison Ford (Deckard) was a replicant; the sequel answers that. However, it suggests that now two barriers have fallen, as Rachael, the replicant, did love him, and could bear his child. So the replicants can feel, and reproduce with humans. (So could the "new" Cylons in the "new" Battlestar Galactica.)


Interesting...I wasn't all that impressed with BR 2049. I thought it was missing the whole "noir" feel of the first movie...and for some reason, I didn't much care what happened to any of the characters which kind of wrecks anything I'm viewing for me. I can't count how many times I've watched the original...and of course like the Director's Cut without the narrative much better...although I suspect I would have missed half the story without it the first time. The original "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" was a great short story, but both Total Recall movies were disappointing...particularly the Arnold version which ended up being a stupid action flick...pretty cartoonish.

I'm hoping that "The Man In The High Castle" will be available on DVD one of these days. So I have no opinion on it...although you're not the first person who I've heard report that they really enjoyed the first two seasons.

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:32 pm 
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This about a new movie? I am watching "Nightflyers" as I type this, scy fy, Creator same Thrones show which I have never watched.


I watched one episode. Got a very "Event Horizon" vibe. Trying to do horror in outer space. That one was never my favorite.

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 Post subject: Re: The Machine Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:36 pm 
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This about a new movie? I am watching "Nightflyers" as I type this, scy fy, Creator same Thrones show which I have never watched.


I watched one episode. Got a very "Event Horizon" vibe. Trying to do horror in outer space. That one was never my favorite.


I have all ten episodes of "Nightflyers" in the DVR bank. Review to follow.

You didn't enjoy the original "Alien"? Really? If for no other reason than a young, slim, Sigourney Weaver? She made me crazy in the escape pod scene.

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