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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:06 am 
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United Healthcare CEO stokes panic

Wichmann says, "Eliminating private insurance would surely jeopardize the relationship people have with their doctors."

Bullshit. I have the same primary doc, and any specialist I want to see. Just like I did before I went on the Medicare.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:28 pm 
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United Healthcare CEO stokes panic

Wichmann says, "Eliminating private insurance would surely jeopardize the relationship people have with their doctors."

Bullshit. I have the same primary doc, and any specialist I want to see. Just like I did before I went on the Medicare.

From your link:
Quote:
But Wichmann, who rarely discusses politics, told investors on a post-earnings conference call Tuesday the measures being discussed would “surely jeopardize the relationship people have with their doctors, destabilize the nation’s health system and limit the ability of clinicians to practice medicine at their best.”

“And the inherent cost burden would surely have a severe impact on the economy and jobs – all without fundamentally increasing access to care,” he added.

Yes, the relationship people have with their doctors will be jeopardized in that doctors won't have to call the insurance company and fight to get their patients approval for treatment.

It will destabilize the nation's health system by enabling people access and get treated.

It will limit the ability of clinicians to practice medicine at their best because only the insurance companies know what the best treatment for the patient is under our current system.

The inherent cost burden will severely impact the economy and jobs because it would mean healthcare monies would go more to patient care than into the pockets of healthcare CEO and stockholders. Employers, big and small, will be able to offer real healthcare coverage to their works.

I have medicare and Tricare for Life. I still see same Navy provided doctor (Holy Socialism, Batman!) at the same location. I have the same Navy and civilian medical referral services. Medicare for all really won't change the relationship patients have with their doctors. It only changes the financial relationship healthcare CEOs and stockholders have with the people who buy their policies.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:55 pm 
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Pretty ironic ain't it? But just what we should expect from a bloodsucking insurance vampire like Wichmann.

I'm surprised Joe ain't back to lecture us all on what a disaster it's going to be if we let the government run our healthcare. I suspect he knows good and goddamn well that about the only system where the government pays for, and also manages the delivery of the healthcare is in the UK. And every time he's reminded of this, it's one of those six paragraph long tangential treatises on everything but the issue of the government having nothing to do with the delivery of healthcare in the Medicare system.

The for-profit hospitals don't like the idea of it either. But then there shouldn't be any for-profit hospitals.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:57 am 
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I am so fucking sick of this meme.

Medicare is NOT government run healthcare. The VA is. The UK NHS is. Medicare is a government healthcare PAYMENT system.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:15 pm 
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United Healthcare CEO stokes panic

Wichmann says, "Eliminating private insurance would surely jeopardize the relationship people have with their doctors."

Bullshit. I have the same primary doc, and any specialist I want to see. Just like I did before I went on the Medicare.


This piece of shit's BEST friend is Bernie Sanders. Figuratively speaking, that is.

You see, Bernie is making UHC in any form scary to all cons who are idiots and to many moderate Democrats for different reasons.

Cons because they are stupid, dems because they know how much of a complete failure Bernie really is as a politician and the idea that our future healthcare is in HIS hands, scares them.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:32 pm 
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I am so fucking sick of this meme.

Medicare is NOT government run healthcare. The VA is. The UK NHS is. Medicare is a government healthcare PAYMENT system.

You are correct. Medicare does not own, run, or employ healthcare providers to provide direct patient care; they insure and pay the bills for patient care. The clinics, hospitals, doctor's offices, etc., are privately owned/operated or owned/operated by a local government agency. The VA is a government run healthcare system the same as military medicine is a government run healthcare system.

People like Wichmann make pronouncements like this to scare the average American for the purpose of protecting their insurance company. It's all about protecting his salary and his company's revenue stream.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:37 pm 
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We have allowed a system to be created wherein hundreds of thousands of Americans rely on for profit health insurance to exist.

Sure, at the top there are a few thousand very rich assholes but there are hundreds of thousands of health insurance employees, independent agents and their staff, maybe over a million who would lose their ability to support themselves if UHC happened in short order.

So, what we NEED to do is roll over in a very effective manner which will employ the rank and file who are now employed to administer the program. The rich assholes can fuck off, but these working people will need those jobs.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:09 pm 
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We have allowed a system to be created wherein hundreds of thousands of Americans rely on for profit health insurance to exist.

Sure, at the top there are a few thousand very rich assholes but there are hundreds of thousands of health insurance employees, independent agents and their staff, maybe over a million who would lose their ability to support themselves if UHC happened in short order.

So, what we NEED to do is roll over in a very effective manner which will employ the rank and file who are now employed to administer the program. The rich assholes can fuck off, but these working people will need those jobs.

Or, we could just let individuals decide whether they want to join Medicare for All or continue with private healthcare insurance. That way, the marketplace will decide and prevent conservatives from complaining about how the government killed the healthcare insurance industry and caused tens of thousands of layoffs.

Yes, if we went to a Medicare for All system the healthcare industry will suffer but I have no doubt they'll figure a way to offer supplemental Medicare for All insurance policies for things Medicare won't pay for even if Medicare does cover it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Or, we could just let individuals decide whether they want to join Medicare for All or continue with private healthcare insurance. That way, the marketplace will decide and prevent conservatives from complaining about how the government killed the healthcare insurance industry and caused tens of thousands of layoffs.

Yes, if we went to a Medicare for All system the healthcare industry will suffer but I have no doubt they'll figure a way to offer supplemental Medicare for All insurance policies for things Medicare won't pay for even if Medicare does cover it.

I say no to that also, UHC whatever you call it should cover everything, including drugs and dental. Maybe dental wont happen right away, but other than private rooms which rich people can arrange for with insurance, everything else has to be covered.


There should be little to no for profit insurance but those workers need the jobs the new system creates, they should get first access to them.

I noticed the comment about even if they are covered anyway, is there a list of stuff people get a supplement for that they dont need it for?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:28 pm 
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I say no to that also, UHC whatever you call it should cover everything, including drugs and dental. Maybe dental wont happen right away, but other than private rooms which rich people can arrange for with insurance, everything else has to be covered.


There should be little to no for profit insurance but those workers need the jobs the new system creates, they should get first access to them.

I noticed the comment about even if they are covered anyway, is there a list of stuff people get a supplement for that they dont need it for?

Insurance companies sell polices supplementing coverage Medicare doesn't cover or pay for. I'd rather have Medicare pay for all services/drugs than having to rely on an insurance company. Insurance companies sell Medicare Part D supplemental insurance to cover prescriptions not covered or fully paid for by Medicare. I could see where the insurance companies will offer supplemental Medicare for All coverage but those would be targeted more to people who aren't fully familiar with what Medicare covers. IOW, they'll con them into buying something they don't/won't need.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:52 pm 
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Or, we could just let individuals decide whether they want to join Medicare for All or continue with private healthcare insurance. That way, the marketplace will decide and prevent conservatives from complaining about how the government killed the healthcare insurance industry and caused tens of thousands of layoffs.

Yes, if we went to a Medicare for All system the healthcare industry will suffer but I have no doubt they'll figure a way to offer supplemental Medicare for All insurance policies for things Medicare won't pay for even if Medicare does cover it.

Since there is no such thing as "the marketplace" such an idea is irrelevant. I know if I need a doctor I want the best damn care, period. Insurance policies exist to prevent paying for the best care. They are making a bet that you won't use it and they seek to balance the odds in the favor of the house however they can.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:16 pm 
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I say no to that also, UHC whatever you call it should cover everything, including drugs and dental. Maybe dental wont happen right away, but other than private rooms which rich people can arrange for with insurance, everything else has to be covered.


There should be little to no for profit insurance but those workers need the jobs the new system creates, they should get first access to them.

I noticed the comment about even if they are covered anyway, is there a list of stuff people get a supplement for that they dont need it for?


That private room cost boondoggle you mentioned is a case of petty political cost cutting taking a front row seat overriding practical medical necessity.

There are two ways a person can be assigned a private room, one is paying the extra cost, the other is having a doctor worried about a persons contagion spreading, deciding to place that person in isolation.

That's not a reasonable way to deal with that risk, isolation should be the norm. There might be a few cases where a pair of long term lonely people might benefit by having a bunk mate, in that case allow it.

The shared room concept of the cost savings on the construction of the building is short sighted ignoring other costs it causes. For instance lost nursing staff time, when they have to take time from other tasks to settle disputes, the clash of families cooped up in too small a room with no privacy.

To get well a person needs rest. It's harder to rest if one's room mate sounds off like Foghorn Leghorn, and has an favorite Uncle like Archie Bunker.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:16 am 
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Since there is no such thing as "the marketplace" such an idea is irrelevant. I know if I need a doctor I want the best damn care, period. Insurance policies exist to prevent paying for the best care. They are making a bet that you won't use it and they seek to balance the odds in the favor of the house however they can.


Right. That's not going to work because in the land of the free and the home of the brave we can do whatever the fuck we like here in the home of rugged individuals. So some of us will take the Medicare, some of us will take the private insurance, and some of us will not do anything because nobody's gonna make us. And that last group of rugged individuals will go to the ER when they get the sniffles, and not pay the bill. So the rest of will be charged for what the deadbeats wont pay, the for profit hospitals will continue to have 50 different schedules of payments for the same procedures and care, the pharmaceutical companies will never get reigned
In, our care will continue to cost us twice what it costs everywhere else on the planet, and we will continue to rank 40th in the world in outcomes.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:18 pm 
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That private room cost boondoggle you mentioned is a case of petty political cost cutting taking a front row seat overriding practical medical necessity.

There are two ways a person can be assigned a private room, one is paying the extra cost, the other is having a doctor worried about a persons contagion spreading, deciding to place that person in isolation.

That's not a reasonable way to deal with that risk, isolation should be the norm. There might be a few cases where a pair of long term lonely people might benefit by having a bunk mate, in that case allow it.

The shared room concept of the cost savings on the construction of the building is short sighted ignoring other costs it causes. For instance lost nursing staff time, when they have to take time from other tasks to settle disputes, the clash of families cooped up in too small a room with no privacy.

To get well a person needs rest. It's harder to rest if one's room mate sounds off like Foghorn Leghorn, and has an favorite Uncle like Archie Bunker.

Agreed. When I had the second and third surgeries for bowel obstructions and the surgery to remove my gall bladder I was in a single room. I kept the door shut and I slept when I wanted and watched TV, read a book or looked at my computer when I wanted to do that.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:57 pm 
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Since there is no such thing as "the marketplace" such an idea is irrelevant. I know if I need a doctor I want the best damn care, period. Insurance policies exist to prevent paying for the best care. They are making a bet that you won't use it and they seek to balance the odds in the favor of the house however they can.

If people are given the choice of Medicare for All or through insurance companies and choose Medicare for All then insurance companies will lose customers. That's the marketplace in action, similar to when a Walmart store opens the mom-and-pop stores lose customers because their customers decide to shop at Walmart.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:01 pm 
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If people are given the choice of Medicare for All or through insurance companies and choose Medicare for All then insurance companies will lose customers. That's the marketplace in action, similar to when a Walmart store opens the mom-and-pop stores lose customers because their customers decide to shop at Walmart.

We created a for profit, capitlist system of health care that NEVER should have been created that does NOT exist almost anywhere else.

So trying to resolve it we see ideas that still include the for profit part of it but we have to understand we dont need that anymore. I mentioned the private room option for rich people, or it could be separate hospitals, but ALL of us should be under ONE system that has NO profit involved for the SYSTEM including hospitals. Yes dr's and RX companies and working people will profit by getting paid and so on but the SYSTEM needs to be cleansed otherwise.

This coming from someone who has FAR more to lose if this happens than all of the members of this forum combined, trust me.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:21 pm 
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If people are given the choice of Medicare for All or through insurance companies and choose Medicare for All then insurance companies will lose customers. That's the marketplace in action, similar to when a Walmart store opens the mom-and-pop stores lose customers because their customers decide to shop at Walmart.

No, since there is no thing as “the marketplace” it is people making decisions based upon various levels of accurate information. Information asymmetry is critical to power sources driving people to make decisions beneficial to the power sources. “The market” or “the marketplace” or “the free market” are all economic theological terms designed to obfuscate and hide information asymmetry, monopolistic/oligopolistic power and cost/benefit analysis from consumers. Even actual markets aka stores utilize various methods to drive consumers to various decisions. A company going out of business is attributed to failing to adapt to the market when in point of opinion multiple other factors may and many times do play a role. If “markets” actually functioned as their high priests claim then insurance companies would have been driven out via consolidation. Imo, insurance companies covertly or coincidentally collude. This is a factor that Adam Smith knew those he called “merchants” would do.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:25 pm 
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No, since there is no thing as “the marketplace” it is people making decisions based upon various levels of accurate information. Information asymmetry is critical to power sources driving people to make decisions beneficial to the power sources. “The market” or “the marketplace” or “the free market” are all economic theological terms designed to obfuscate and hide information asymmetry, monopolistic/oligopolistic power and cost/benefit analysis from consumers. Even actual markets aka stores utilize various methods to drive consumers to various decisions. A company going out of business is attributed to failing to adapt to the market when in point of opinion multiple other factors may and many times do play a role. If “markets” actually functioned as their high priests claim then insurance companies would have been driven out via consolidation. Imo, insurance companies covertly or coincidentally collude. This is a factor that Adam Smith knew those he called “merchants” would do.

If there is no marketplace then where does all this economic activity take place? "Marketplace," as defined by Merriam-Webster, is a simple term used to denote "the world of trade or economic activity" and "a sphere in which intangible values compete for acceptance." Let's not quibble over verbiage. Wherever the economic activity is taking place if customers favor one company over another then the company that loses business will falter/fail unless it changes the way it does business to get those customers back. My point is and has been if given a choice I believe most people will choose Medicare for All over company/individual healthcare insurance. Insurance companies will adapt by offering insurance they'll claim fills the gaps in Medicare and there will be enough people who will believe that and buy their supplemental policies.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:34 pm 
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Agreed. When I had the second and third surgeries for bowel obstructions and the surgery to remove my gall bladder I was in a single room. I kept the door shut and I slept when I wanted and watched TV, read a book or looked at my computer when I wanted to do that.

Rest in a hospital can sometimes be hard to get. It's better to be released as soon as possible than staying in the hospital. The way hospitals operated 40 years ago was to have the patient stay in the hospital for a week or more but today they want the out in a couple of days. From what I've been told by healthcare professionals, getting patients home earlier helps them recover faster and reduces nosocomial infection. I have a friend who just underwent a knee-replacement surgery. He had the operation on a Monday was out of the hospital on Wednesday.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:22 pm 
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If there is no marketplace then where does all this economic activity take place? "Marketplace," as defined by Merriam-Webster, is a simple term used to denote "the world of trade or economic activity" and "a sphere in which intangible values compete for acceptance." Let's not quibble over verbiage. Wherever the economic activity is taking place if customers favor one company over another then the company that loses business will falter/fail unless it changes the way it does business to get those customers back. My point is and has been if given a choice I believe most people will choose Medicare for All over company/individual healthcare insurance. Insurance companies will adapt by offering insurance they'll claim fills the gaps in Medicare and there will be enough people who will believe that and buy their supplemental policies.

Actually it is important to quibble, as you put it, over verbiage. That verbiage as put forth by idiots like Milton Friedman and Von Hayek has colored political policy through economic theology for 49+ years. Markets do not make decisions as the definitions you provided prove. Humans make decisions. Governments establish the rules, guidelines, boundaries and laws which allow transactions to occur. They also should, in theory, limit the extent of fraud. But so-called free markets would be rife with fraud. Not to mention that financial innovation has been accompanied by boom/bust bubbles. Minsky noted this. Stability, namely constant growth or so-called “good times” leads people to think that said good times will last forever. Instead instability occurs the longer stability lasts. People take more and more risk thinking there is some new economy or that we have rid ourselves of busts. They are always wrong.

As for choosing Medicare for all over their current insurance? I have far less faith in people to make rational economic decisions because their internal psychology veers from rationality to irrationality. Some certainly would change. Many others would not because they will believe when they are told it is government healthcare even when it is not. As for insurance companies they already engage in agitprop by calling plans “Medicare supplements”. They are not. They are private health insurance.

If I had my way I would have Medicare for all with zero need for healthcare insurance from the renters in the f.i.r.e. sector. Every last one could close up for all I give a damn.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:17 am 
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Actually it is important to quibble, as you put it, over verbiage. That verbiage as put forth by idiots like Milton Friedman and Von Hayek has colored political policy through economic theology for 49+ years. Markets do not make decisions as the definitions you provided prove. Humans make decisions. Governments establish the rules, guidelines, boundaries and laws which allow transactions to occur. They also should, in theory, limit the extent of fraud. But so-called free markets would be rife with fraud. Not to mention that financial innovation has been accompanied by boom/bust bubbles. Minsky noted this. Stability, namely constant growth or so-called “good times” leads people to think that said good times will last forever. Instead instability occurs the longer stability lasts. People take more and more risk thinking there is some new economy or that we have rid ourselves of busts. They are always wrong.

I see you avoided answering my question of "Where does all this economic activity take place?" Marketplace is a generic term that an average person can understand. And as you pointed out "Humans make decisions" which was my point. People choosing between Medicare for All and insurance companies.

Quote:
As for choosing Medicare for all over their current insurance? I have far less faith in people to make rational economic decisions because their internal psychology veers from rationality to irrationality. Some certainly would change. Many others would not because they will believe when they are told it is government healthcare even when it is not. As for insurance companies they already engage in agitprop by calling plans “Medicare supplements”. They are not. They are private health insurance.

The problem with people making "rational economic decisions" is the average American isn't taught finance, investing, or how the economy works. Most people learn from these from experience. However, I think a lot of people can figure out the difference between the costs for Medicare for All and private insurance. Insurance companies, republicans, and conservative organizations will lie their asses off trying to convince those who are unsure how bad Medicare for All will be and that their costly but mainly worthless (they won't tell them this part) supplemental insurance is the cure-all that's needed.
If I had my way I would have Medicare for all with zero need for healthcare insurance from the renters in the f.i.r.e. sector. Every last one could close up for all I give a damn.[/quote]

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:30 am 
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I see you avoided answering my question of "Where does all this economic activity take place?" Marketplace is a generic term that an average person can understand. And as you pointed out "Humans make decisions" which was my point. People choosing between Medicare for All and insurance companies.


The problem with people making "rational economic decisions" is the average American isn't taught finance, investing, or how the economy works. Most people learn from these from experience. However, I think a lot of people can figure out the difference between the costs for Medicare for All and private insurance. Insurance companies, republicans, and conservative organizations will lie their asses off trying to convince those who are unsure how bad Medicare for All will be and that their costly but mainly worthless (they won't tell them this part) supplemental insurance is the cure-all that's needed.
If I had my way I would have Medicare for all with zero need for healthcare insurance from the renters in the f.i.r.e. sector. Every last one could close up for all I give a damn.
[/quote]
Economic activity takes place all around us. The use of the word "market" serves to make economists seem as though transactions are shrouded in mystery. The same applies regarding the use of mathematical models which are an excellent example of GIGO's law, Garbage In, Garbage Out. The fallacy lies in claiming that "the market decides." It decides nothing because it cannot decide anything. Humans decide. And humans decide how much information to give out regarding transactions, how information is received, how much information is truthful and factual. Thus people will lack information because one party ALWAYS has more information than another party. In the case of insurance, it is the insurance company that has more information.

As for people being taught finance, investing (another word for gambling) or how the economy works is that those topics are not science. They are extremely complex and tied to sociology and, more importantly, psychology. Tversky and Kahneman underscored this. It is also the realm of Thaler.

Implement Medicare for all covering dental, vision (as though those should not have been covered in the first place) wellness etc and completely get rid of insurance companies. They serve no purpose other than to take money from people.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Economic activity takes place all around us. The use of the word "market" serves to make economists seem as though transactions are shrouded in mystery. The same applies regarding the use of mathematical models which are an excellent example of GIGO's law, Garbage In, Garbage Out. The fallacy lies in claiming that "the market decides." It decides nothing because it cannot decide anything. Humans decide. And humans decide how much information to give out regarding transactions, how information is received, how much information is truthful and factual. Thus people will lack information because one party ALWAYS has more information than another party. In the case of insurance, it is the insurance company that has more information.

Again, you're avoiding answering my question of "Where does all this economic activity take place?" It's like asking a Christianista "Where does God live" and they answer "He lives all around us." That's a response but not an answer. I'll try to make this easier. What term do you use to describe the economic activity businesses and customers engage in and where it take place.

Quote:
As for people being taught finance, investing (another word for gambling) or how the economy works is that those topics are not science. They are extremely complex and tied to sociology and, more importantly, psychology. Tversky and Kahneman underscored this. It is also the realm of Thaler.

One doesn't need a doctorate's degree in medicine to be able to handle a scrape or a sprained ankle. Just before I began my AF tech school, our class went through a two-week Medical Fundamentals course which was an advanced first aid course. This didn't qualify me as a doctor, nurse, or even a medical technician but it gave me enough information to handle emergency medical situations. The same applies to finance, investing, and how the economy works. Some education on the fundamentals is enough. It's like the time I asked my brother-in-law how much of is accounting degree does he use in his job (he was a company's finance officer) and he replied not much because he hires people to handle the accounting functions. All he has to know is how to read and interrupt the information his accountants give him. The same goes for the average person; basic knowledge and the fundamentals of finance, investing, and economics is sufficient.

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Implement Medicare for all covering dental, vision (as though those should not have been covered in the first place) wellness etc and completely get rid of insurance companies. They serve no purpose other than to take money from people.

I totally agree with you.

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Last edited by Number6 on Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:57 pm 
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Economic activity takes place all around us. The use of the word "market" serves to make economists seem as though transactions are shrouded in mystery. The same applies regarding the use of mathematical models which are an excellent example of GIGO's law, Garbage In, Garbage Out. The fallacy lies in claiming that "the market decides." It decides nothing because it cannot decide anything. Humans decide. And humans decide how much information to give out regarding transactions, how information is received, how much information is truthful and factual. Thus people will lack information because one party ALWAYS has more information than another party. In the case of insurance, it is the insurance company that has more information.

As for people being taught finance, investing (another word for gambling) or how the economy works is that those topics are not science. They are extremely complex and tied to sociology and, more importantly, psychology. Tversky and Kahneman underscored this. It is also the realm of Thaler.

Implement Medicare for all covering dental, vision (as though those should not have been covered in the first place) wellness etc and completely get rid of insurance companies. They serve no purpose other than to take money from people.[/quote]

The average American has the attention span of a radish and 6th grade reading comprehension. So it doesn't matter much even if the average American was provided education on finance and economics. So even if they were shown the comparative cost per capita of health care here and all the countries where it's half what it is here, the moment they heard it might increase their fucking income tax it would be screaming bloody murder from sea to shining sea.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:19 pm 
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The average American has the attention span of a radish and 6th grade reading comprehension. So it doesn't matter much even if the average American was provided education on finance and economics. So even if they were shown the comparative cost per capita of health care here and all the countries where it's half what it is here, the moment they heard it might increase their fucking income tax it would be screaming bloody murder from sea to shining sea.

If we want Medicare for All then we have to convince the average American how it will benefit them over the current system of private insurance. Part of the process of convincing is to use terms the average American understands or can connect with and words like "marketplace" and phrases like "let the market decides." These are the the words and phrases that conservatives have hammered home on people to the point they accept and use them so we have to use them to convince them Medicare for All is best for them.

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