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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:17 am 
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The Daily Beast - Trump State Department to LGBT Couples: Your ‘Out of Wedlock’ Kids Aren’t Citizens

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But Kessem was about to become the latest victim of a government policy that effectively de-recognizes her parents’ marriage, granting her no automatic rights to American birthright citizenship despite the fact that both her fathers are U.S. citizens. That policy, Kessem’s fathers told The Daily Beast, poses a unique threat to LGBT families, and could change the decades-old legal understanding of what the word “family” even means.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:57 am 
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Not sure how this will ever hold up. Both parents are US citizens. Both it seems would be welcome even under Trump's new sort of proposal. These are not anchor babies, but rather anchor parents. Hard to look at this as anything but blatant bigotry. It's unbelievable that the State Department would waste our resources on this sort of legal battle.

Just another example that Trump, apparently, is planning the 2020 election to be a 'culture war,' rather than a discussion on issues.


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:04 am 
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Not sure how this will ever hold up. Both parents are US citizens. Both it seems would be welcome even under Trump's new sort of proposal. These are not anchor babies, but rather anchor parents. Hard to look at this as anything but blatant bigotry. It's unbelievable that the State Department would waste our resources on this sort of legal battle.

Just another example that Trump, apparently, is planning the 2020 election to be a 'culture war,' rather than a discussion on issues.


Yes there are multiple issues here, including the delegitimation of samesex marriages by labeling the kid "out of wedlock".

I can very easily see the Trump State Department putting resources into that effort, coupled with the rightwing effort to end birthright citizenship, itself an attempt to weaken the 14th Amendment.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:11 am 
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Yes there are multiple issues here, including the delegitimation of samesex marriages by labeling the kid "out of wedlock".

I can very easily see the Trump State Department putting resources into that effort, coupled with the rightwing effort to end birthright citizenship, itself an attempt to weaken the 14th Amendment.
It is very unusual (normally only for 'scam marriages' which this is clearly not) for one country to not recognized a marriage that is legal in another country. What seems especially difficult for the government position in this one, and in one of the other cases in the article, is that in both cases another child from the same parents/circumstances are US citizens.

Unbelievable. (I wish)


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:20 am 
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It is very unusual (normally only for 'scam marriages' which this is clearly not) for one country to not recognized a marriage that is legal in another country. What seems especially difficult for the government position in this one, and in one of the other cases in the article, is that in both cases another child from the same parents/circumstances are US citizens.

Unbelievable. (I wish)


Yeah that's not true at all when it comes to samesex marriage, because you have countries like Mexico where it's only legal in some locales (in that case Mexico City only), or other countries in which homosexuality is illegal across the board.

Until it was legal in our own country, the US did not recognize samesex marriages from other countries, either. It's in part what DOMA was all about as well, denying federal recognition of samesex marriages performed by states.

The Taiwanese parliament legalized samesex marriage yesterday. Good luck getting any neighboring country to recognize Taiwanese s-s married couples as a legal entity.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Fri May 17, 2019 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:20 am 
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Of course Joe, who has permanently left whatever integrity he might once have had in his other pants, will continue to object to removing this malignant socipathic pedophile immediately...by any legal means necessary.

Because it's not fair or some other stupid reason.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:23 am 
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Pro-family, my ass.

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"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:24 am 
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Of course Joe, who has permanently left whatever integrity he might once have had in his other pants, will continue to object to removing this malignant socipathic pedophile immediately...by any legal means necessary.

Because it's not fair or some other stupid reason.


Or "politically motivated."

Or whatever. :problem:

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:32 am 
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... countries like Mexico where it's only legal in some locales (in that case Mexico City only)....
I will say that I have hetero friends who married in Mexico (I think Mex City) who had problems. After they moved to the US (one partner was US born citizen...not of Mex background). Once they were in the US, for more than ten years, each year the INS would check that they were really married.


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:43 am 
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Re: Taiwan, just to show that no, governments routinely do not at all recognize samesex marriage the same way they do heterosexual marriages from other countries.

Image

What we queers in the US are dealing with is the threat of revocation of hard-won marriage rights. Consider also that one of the main precedents to Obergefell was Loving v. Virginia, which legalized interracial marriage across all 50 states. All of these issues -- ending birthright citizenship, interracial marriage, samesex marriage, are Equal Protection as well as Due Process issues. 14th Amendment.

And we are living under a white nationalist administration.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:54 am 
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What we queers in the US are dealing with is the threat of revocation of hard-won marriage rights.
In so many areas they are trying to turn back the clock on what appeared to be decisions that have been made and progress in society. A further reminder that even rights won, don't seem to be irrevocable.


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:54 am 
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I will say that I have hetero friends who married in Mexico (I think Mex City) who had problems. After they moved to the US (one partner was US born citizen...not of Mex background). Once they were in the US, for more than ten years, each year the INS would check that they were really married.


If that's the case, the INS overscrutiny was not due to their sexuality.

Prior to Obergefell, which is not 5 years old, yet, no samesex married couple from another country could be considered married here by the federal government. So there's not really a parallel in a situation with, say, a samesex couple in which one is a citizen and the other isn't.

Just to reiterate, same-sex married couples do not have legal or social parity with heterosexual married couples. Not even close. This has structural effects on our families and our children that are not present in heterosexual marrieds, no matter how hard the INS looks at their status. So because of these historical disparities, there is a very good chance it could hold up.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Fri May 17, 2019 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:55 am 
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In so many areas they are trying to turn back the clock on what appeared to be decisions that have been made and progress in society. A further reminder that even rights won, don't seem to be irrevocable.


Yes turn back the clock or, going forward, make it even worse than it was in the past.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:33 am 
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In so many areas they are trying to turn back the clock on what appeared to be decisions that have been made and progress in society. A further reminder that even rights won, don't seem to be irrevocable.


Well...it seems to me we ought consider turning the clock back...way fuckin' back. Back to when immigrants came off the boat at Ellis Island, you were checked for smallpox etc., and if you appeared to be free of a serious communicable disease...

You're in.

You didn't need a fucking engineering degree and a quarter million dollar portfolio at DeutscheBank.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:47 am 
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Related:

House Session: The House debates and votes on the Equality Act (HR 5), legislation banning discrimination on the basis of sex, gender identity, and sexual orientation. - CSPAN

Going on right now. This is a pretty important vote for LGBTQs rn.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:10 pm 
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We're watching the execution of a political/social offensive that has been planned and prepared for since the 1980s. Obviously, several well-established factions did not consider any progress in this area to be irrevocable, and in fact most considered it a temporary aberration to be dealt with like any other heresy.

All you get from me will be the advice for all concerned humans of any orientation to fight like hell or it's written in stone that we will lose the last 30 years.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:33 pm 
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House passes by a pretty significant majority...including about 8 Republican votes. I'll be surprised if the Republican Senator or Republican President pass/sign it.


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:43 pm 
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Of course Joe, who has permanently left whatever integrity he might once have had in his other pants, will continue to object to removing this malignant socipathic pedophile immediately...by any legal means necessary.

Because it's not fair or some other stupid reason.


For someone who preaches integrity, you display very little of it. Perhaps you should spend your time speaking to what you believe and less time misrepresenting the views of others.

I don’t object to legal processes. I am a law and order kind of guy. Your argument regarding impeachment is misdirected towards me. I hold no seat in the legislature. I suggest you start with the Democrats in the House. The impeachment process begins there.

I agree with Speaker Pelosi that impeachment is generally hard on the country. However, in this case it might be quite therapeutic and beneficial. Both sides have accused the other of treasonous acts. Often these types of issues are resolved in courts using our laws and due process. So what better place to get things out in the open with the give and take between prosecution and defense. Put folks on the stand under oath questioned not by legislators but by legal counsel. Not in 5 minute increments. So we get to hear all the evidence supporting collusion and the defense gets to bring in all the evidence supporting their claims that this was a political investigation by members of the opposing political party. Get it all on the table for everyone to see and let the American people decide for themselves who is or is not lying. Who is or is not working in support of the constitution and our laws.

I am starting to think that is the best solution. Have a trial and get all the relevant facts on the table.


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:12 pm 
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Both sides have accused the other of treasonous acts.


WTF is this supposed to mean? There is only one side committing acts that are destructive to this country. That side is the Republican party side. And in it's current incarnation, this began when a black man won the White House. It was obviously bad from the day Obama took office in January 2009, but when it became crystal clear what traitorous pricks were running the Republican Party was when Scalia died and the GOP refused to do its fucking job and even begin the process of confirmation or rejection of Merrick Garland. Traitorous fucking scum.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:18 pm 
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For someone who preaches integrity, you display very little of it. Perhaps you should spend your time speaking to what you believe and less time misrepresenting the views of others.

I don’t object to legal processes. I am a law and order kind of guy. Your argument regarding impeachment is misdirected towards me. I hold no seat in the legislature. I suggest you start with the Democrats in the House. The impeachment process begins there.

I agree with Speaker Pelosi that impeachment is generally hard on the country. However, in this case it might be quite therapeutic and beneficial. Both sides have accused the other of treasonous acts. Often these types of issues are resolved in courts using our laws and due process. So what better place to get things out in the open with the give and take between prosecution and defense. Put folks on the stand under oath questioned not by legislators but by legal counsel. Not in 5 minute increments. So we get to hear all the evidence supporting collusion and the defense gets to bring in all the evidence supporting their claims that this was a political investigation by members of the opposing political party. Get it all on the table for everyone to see and let the American people decide for themselves who is or is not lying. Who is or is not working in support of the constitution and our laws.

I am starting to think that is the best solution. Have a trial and get all the relevant facts on the table.

No trial until he is impeached. The DOJ memo stands in the way there even though it is bullshit. Impeachment inquiries are the way to go as was done with Nixon. Of course Donnie will fight that tooth and nail.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:12 pm 
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No trial until he is impeached. The DOJ memo stands in the way there even though it is bullshit. Impeachment inquiries are the way to go as was done with Nixon. Of course Donnie will fight that tooth and nail.


Well Bird you need to explain that to Ike. He appears to be the one who wants him gone right away. As far as I am concerned the Democrats control the House and they can proceed however they see fit. People on my this board were critical of the other party because they said the evidence was “irrefutable”. Maybe that has changed and hearings are now required to make the case.

So investigate him or impeach him or both. It’s up to the Democrats in the house where things go from here. They are in the drivers seat.


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:20 pm 
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A further reminder that even rights won, don't seem to be irrevocable.


Yes a brief look at Asian-American history tells us this. Alien Land Laws, Anti-coolie laws, internment and relocation of citizens to concentration camps.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:22 pm 
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Well Bird you need to explain that to Ike. He appears to be the one who wants him gone right away. As far as I am concerned the Democrats control the House and they can proceed however they see fit. People on my this board were critical of the other party because they said the evidence was “irrefutable”. Maybe that has changed and hearings are now required to make the case.

So investigate him or impeach him or both. It’s up to the Democrats in the house where things go from here. They are in the drivers seat.


As a senator from your party advises Donald Greaseball Jr to ignore House subpoenas.

Corrupt conservative is corrupt.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:30 pm 
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Well Bird you need to explain that to Ike. He appears to be the one who wants him gone right away. As far as I am concerned the Democrats control the House and they can proceed however they see fit. People on my this board were critical of the other party because they said the evidence was “irrefutable”. Maybe that has changed and hearings are now required to make the case.

So investigate him or impeach him or both. It’s up to the Democrats in the house where things go from here. They are in the drivers seat.


Your party is the party of pro-discrimination.

173 Republicans vote against Equality Act banning LGBTQ discrimination - TP

Quote:
The House of Representatives passed a sweeping nondiscrimination bill on Friday that would enhance protections for LGBTQ Americans, in a 236-173 vote. The vote was mostly along party lines, and all the no votes were from Republicans.


Indeed, they were. Your party is the Party of Treason, and Lawless Confederacy.

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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:10 am 
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Well Bird you need to explain that to Ike. He appears to be the one who wants him gone right away. As far as I am concerned the Democrats control the House and they can proceed however they see fit. People on my this board were critical of the other party because they said the evidence was “irrefutable”. Maybe that has changed and hearings are now required to make the case.

So investigate him or impeach him or both. It’s up to the Democrats in the house where things go from here. They are in the drivers seat.


You're a lying sack of shit. I have repeatedly said, I want him gone immediately by any legal means possible. That includes impeachment, the 25th Amendment, invoking of the emoluments clause, or indictment. There's nothing illegal about an indictment of a sitting president in a state district court , nor is there anything illegal about a federal indictment of a sitting president. DOJ policy is not law. Indict his pedophilic ass, right now. Indict him in courts of law and impeach him, and then watch how fast he quits rather than to have to face questioning under oath on everything despicable act he has committed is his despicable life...on the TeeVee.

Investigate him? For what? Everything we need to put his sociopathic ass in jail is in the Mueller report, and investigations set off by the Mueller report. Indict him.

But what this is about is you Joe, not Trump, not Mueller but about you and traitorous scum just like you...who continue to support the GOP traitors in the Congress who are co-conspirators in the criminal enterprise that is the Trump administration. It appears you live in Tennessee, Joe. Zip your spine back in and admit to us all that you supported scum like Marsha Blackburn for the Senate. Marsha Blackburn who disputes evolution, who has stated that 94% not the actual 3% of PPL activity is abortion services related, who opposes private funding of stem cell research, who sponsored the fucking "birther bill", who has no problem with pre-existing condition exceptions in health insurance, who says climate change is made up, who opposes LGBTQ in the military, who opposes the concept of LGBTQ couples as family, who nominated a pedophile for the Nobel Peace Prise, who opposes fair employemt for women, who wants Genesis taught in science class, and who opposes medical confidentiality for women and applauds the 25 white men who can't keep their noses out of the sexual organs of American women...
Image


Tell us how you cast your ballot for Marsha Blackburn, and then tell us how you can do that, how you can vote for her while opposing everything in this this partial list of all the disgusting shit she stands for. Because if you support any of it, you're just as bad as she is...you're just as bad as Trump is. Worse maybe, because Trump is a sick, emotionally reactive, neurotic who doesn't not have the capacity to be any other way. As opposed to you, who clearly celebrates himself as the top shelf thinking man on this forum.

So tell me how you voted for Phil Bredesen or anybody else, and then tell me you're not a lying-ass hypocrite.

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