Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

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Toonces
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Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Toonces »

The dithering of Western nations continues to have significant consequences. Ukraine cannot hold out forever, and without significant support from those of us in the West, things continue to get more dire. Russia *WILL* target a NATO nation given the opportunity. Ukraine is not their only target. Failure to act helps Putin and his terrorist regime.


Russia reportedly using chemical weapons
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... t-ukraine/
Russian troops are carrying out a systematic campaign of illegal chemical attacks against Ukrainian soldiers, according to a Telegraph investigation.

The Telegraph spoke to a number of Ukrainian soldiers deployed in positions across the front line who detailed how their positions have been coming under near daily attacks from small drones, mainly dropping tear gas but also other chemicals.

Russia attacks civilian targets in Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68747752
At least seven people have been killed in Russian drone attacks on the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, officials say.

Mayor Ihor Terekhov said six people were killed when Iranian-made Shahed drones hit several buildings, including apartment blocks, early on Saturday.

Another person was killed in a second strike on a residential area, he added.

Reporters targeted in Kherson
https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status ... 6953458077 (video)
Motor City
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Motor City »

It grows in the war garden and spreads like a fire. Failure to bring peace brings normalization of all the terrible things grown in that garden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV9Bm9cJ808

Peace
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JoeMemphis
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by JoeMemphis »

Motor City wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:59 pm It grows in the war garden and spreads like a fire. Failure to bring peace brings normalization of all the terrible things grown in that garden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV9Bm9cJ808

Peace
“Normalization”?? What is the normal state in this world? Seems there is always conflict of some form somewhere. I’m not sure the normal or natural state of affairs is peace. Seems to me that peace takes a whole lot of work.
Glennfs
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Glennfs »

Toonces wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:43 pm The dithering of Western nations continues to have significant consequences. Ukraine cannot hold out forever, and without significant support from those of us in the West, things continue to get more dire. Russia *WILL* target a NATO nation given the opportunity. Ukraine is not their only target. Failure to act helps Putin and his terrorist regime.


Russia reportedly using chemical weapons
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... t-ukraine/




Russia attacks civilian targets in Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68747752




Reporters targeted in Kherson
https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status ... 6953458077 (video)
Do you think that the Hamas terrorists have been embolden by the recent acts of the democratic party?
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bradman
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by bradman »

Ya really need to broaden your horizon.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/six-months-w ... 22613.html
NBC News
Six months into the war in Gaza, everyone seems to be losing
Meanwhile Israel has become increasingly isolated internationally, with even its closest ally, the United States, demanding that it do more to help protect Palestinian civilians in Gaza, where more than 1 million people are now thought to be on the brink of famine. Israel’s killing of seven aid workers has put that global condemnation into overdrive, with prominent voices in Europe and the U.S. now calling for the suspension of arms sales.

At home, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is the subject of mass street protests calling for his removal over his handling of the war. The movement includes many family members of the hostages who say he has prioritized his own political future — allegedly extending the war to stave off a political ousting, not to mention his legal troubles — over rescuing their loved ones.

On Saturday night, tens of thousands gathered in Tel Aviv in an anti-government protest that police later forcibly dispersed.
Sure is a lot of anti-Semites eh.

Strange thing is the conservatives are worried about being dragged into a world war by supporting Ukraine when the spark for that war may very well be bibi.....Yahoo wants Hezbollah next.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
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Toonces
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Toonces »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2024 11:20 am Do you think that the Hamas terrorists have been embolden by the recent acts of the democratic party?
In that the Democrats continue to materially support Israel's war effort? No.

In that some have been critical of Israel's continued killing of innocent civilians? No. They don't actually give a fuck what they think.

In that some have supported Israel's continued killing of innocent civilians? No, not those who are already part of Hamas, but countless who have seen their families murdered and that there seem to be plenty of people cheering it on.

Yes, I know, you were trying to criticize those who support the Palestinian people and oppose what Israel is doing. You think those people are siding with Hamas and cheered on what Hamas did. They aren't doing that, of course. They want the indiscriminate killing to stop. They don't want friends and family continuing to die. (How dare they want that!!)

So, if we take a page from your book of black and white, we will simply have to assume you find the murder of 1000s of children to be a good thing, a deserved outcome. You either support Israel or you're with Hamas. Glen likes that little children are dying. That's if we look at this through your lens. Fair is fair, right?

You and another individual around here have no sympathy for those dying in Gaza, no sympathy for those coming through the border. I cannot figure out just white, uh, what these people have in common.

So, any more questions you'd like to ask?

Oh, and can you kindly keep this shit out of one of my threads, there's other threads more relevant to push this bullshit. Can't go more that 2 or 3 posts anywhere without the whataboutism, like a fucking child bringing up something another child has done or trying to change the subject.
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Glennfs »

Toonces wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2024 4:13 pm In that the Democrats continue to materially support Israel's war effort? No.

In that some have been critical of Israel's continued killing of innocent civilians? No. They don't actually give a fuck what they think.

In that some have supported Israel's continued killing of innocent civilians? No, not those who are already part of Hamas, but countless who have seen their families murdered and that there seem to be plenty of people cheering it on.

Yes, I know, you were trying to criticize those who support the Palestinian people and oppose what Israel is doing. You think those people are siding with Hamas and cheered on what Hamas did. They aren't doing that, of course. They want the indiscriminate killing to stop. They don't want friends and family continuing to die. (How dare they want that!!)

So, if we take a page from your book of black and white, we will simply have to assume you find the murder of 1000s of children to be a good thing, a deserved outcome. You either support Israel or you're with Hamas. Glen likes that little children are dying. That's if we look at this through your lens. Fair is fair, right?

You and another individual around here have no sympathy for those dying in Gaza, no sympathy for those coming through the border. I cannot figure out just white, uh, what these people have in common.

So, any more questions you'd like to ask?

Oh, and can you kindly keep this shit out of one of my threads, there's other threads more relevant to push this bullshit. Can't go more that 2 or 3 posts anywhere without the whataboutism, like a fucking child bringing up something another child has done or trying to change the subject.
The deaths of the children is 100pct the fault of Hamas. Israel or any nation cannot stand aside and.see its women raped and murdered by terrorists and do nothing because the terrorists hide behind innocent people.
During WWII we showed the world and our enemies that there was no place to hide. Israel has done the same.
As for the democratic party supporting Hamas there are two factions.
First we hay the squad who hates Israel and Jewish people and probably don't think highly of our country.
Second you have the DNC leaders along with career politicians who are afraid of losing Michigan. So they have made a political choice to support Hamas and oppose Israel.
Doing so will not hurt the democratic party. Because it will not effect any other state. The blues will still vote blue, the reds red. As for the other swing states they will undoubtedly have a separate strategy for every individual state.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
JoeMemphis
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by JoeMemphis »

Toonces wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2024 4:13 pm In that the Democrats continue to materially support Israel's war effort? No.

In that some have been critical of Israel's continued killing of innocent civilians? No. They don't actually give a fuck what they think.

In that some have supported Israel's continued killing of innocent civilians? No, not those who are already part of Hamas, but countless who have seen their families murdered and that there seem to be plenty of people cheering it on.

Yes, I know, you were trying to criticize those who support the Palestinian people and oppose what Israel is doing. You think those people are siding with Hamas and cheered on what Hamas did. They aren't doing that, of course. They want the indiscriminate killing to stop. They don't want friends and family continuing to die. (How dare they want that!!)

So, if we take a page from your book of black and white, we will simply have to assume you find the murder of 1000s of children to be a good thing, a deserved outcome. You either support Israel or you're with Hamas. Glen likes that little children are dying. That's if we look at this through your lens. Fair is fair, right?

You and another individual around here have no sympathy for those dying in Gaza, no sympathy for those coming through the border. I cannot figure out just white, uh, what these people have in common.

So, any more questions you'd like to ask?

Oh, and can you kindly keep this shit out of one of my threads, there's other threads more relevant to push this bullshit. Can't go more that 2 or 3 posts anywhere without the whataboutism, like a fucking child bringing up something another child has done or trying to change the subject.
It’s message board I thought or so I have been told. So anyone is free to comment or not comment as they please. As for no sympathy, I don’t see where you have much for the innocents who have friends families and homes on the other side. I have asked what you would suggest and you have no answers. You sit safely on your ass criticizing other people whose homes and families are at risk. So your empathy is worth shit to them.

So any more questions?
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Toonces
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Toonces »

You two are irremediable

You offer up opinion and opinion, rarely based on fact. When I post links, you choose to ignore them. When I answer questions, you choose to ignore them. If you're going to repeat the same, tired arguments regardless of what is presented to you then discussing anything further is pointless

I shall not waste my time further if neither of you is interested in an honest, intellectual debate, which you are not.
JoeMemphis
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by JoeMemphis »

Toonces wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2024 9:16 pm You two are irremediable

You offer up opinion and opinion, rarely based on fact. When I post links, you choose to ignore them. When I answer questions, you choose to ignore them. If you're going to repeat the same, tired arguments regardless of what is presented to you then discussing anything further is pointless

I shall not waste my time further if neither of you is interested in an honest, intellectual debate, which you are not.
I’m all for an honest debate. But you don’t have much to offer if the best you got it to pull out the whole race card bullshit. Pretty weak. Means you got nothing better to say. So shove that back up your ass where it came from.

Cheers.
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Motor City »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2024 9:28 am “Normalization”?? What is the normal state in this world? Seems there is always conflict of some form somewhere. I’m not sure the normal or natural state of affairs is peace. Seems to me that peace takes a whole lot of work.
Its hard work yes but you get out of it what you put in.

The work of peace is not getting caught up in the war fantasies and delusions of grandeur that lead to what were seeing now. These fantasies and delusions about controlling everything through violence and fear and intimidation wont lead to salvation or security they will lead to transforming the world to a living hell.
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JoeMemphis
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by JoeMemphis »

Motor City wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:09 am Its hard work yes but you get out of it what you put in.

The work of peace is not getting caught up in the war fantasies and delusions of grandeur that lead to what were seeing now. These fantasies and delusions about controlling everything through violence and fear and intimidation wont lead to salvation or security they will lead to transforming the world to a living hell.
I heard a quote the other day from back in the WW2 days. The gist was basically that peaceful men were always readying for war. I guess what they were trying to say is that the best way to avoid war was from a position of strength. Seems that nations often get attacked when they are at their weakest. I think there is something to that. Being ready to fight and being strong doesn’t necessarily mean one is looking for war. It doesn’t have to be that way. I would rather defend myself from a position of strength than one of weakness. To me it’s worth the money.
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Glennfs »

Toonces wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2024 9:16 pm You two are irremediable

You offer up opinion and opinion, rarely based on fact. When I post links, you choose to ignore them. When I answer questions, you choose to ignore them. If you're going to repeat the same, tired arguments regardless of what is presented to you then discussing anything further is pointless

I shall not waste my time further if neither of you is interested in an honest, intellectual debate, which you are not.
You posted that same thought awhile back and you were correct. Since then I've gone out if my way to read your posts, visit your links and respond.

Something I will try and keep doing. Even though I find that you being of the opinion that people opposed to your views aren't interested in an honest debate is simply wrong.

As for your argument that we repeat yhe same old tired arguments is interesting. Seeing how we have a member here who has used the phrase Dear Leader almost 1250 times. So I can see why you would believe a person who does thar isn't interested in an honest debate.

Something else I will watch and try not to do.
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by ZoWie »

drumpf never changes, so why should the words used to describe his fascist hero-worship version of politics change?
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Motor City
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Motor City »

JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:49 am I heard a quote the other day from back in the WW2 days. The gist was basically that peaceful men were always readying for war. I guess what they were trying to say is that the best way to avoid war was from a position of strength. Seems that nations often get attacked when they are at their weakest. I think there is something to that. Being ready to fight and being strong doesn’t necessarily mean one is looking for war. It doesn’t have to be that way. I would rather defend myself from a position of strength than one of weakness. To me it’s worth the money.
Nations are usually at their weakest when their officials are corrupt and they have lost love for one another and brotherhood. They can attempt to defend that loss by buildup of arms and armor and weapons at the ready but its really avoiding dealing with the real problem, its putting it off further and further multiplying its toxicity. To defend ourselves from a position of strength is to return to love and brotherhood.
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by JoeMemphis »

Motor City wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 7:59 pm Nations are usually at their weakest when their officials are corrupt and they have lost love for one another and brotherhood. They can attempt to defend that loss by buildup of arms and armor and weapons at the ready but its really avoiding dealing with the real problem, its putting it off further and further multiplying its toxicity. To defend ourselves from a position of strength is to return to love and brotherhood.
Nice in theory but I can’t remember a time in history where it has worked. I don’t think being strong and ready and willing to defend oneself means you can’t also he honest and compassionate. They aren’t mutually exclusive. I just think dealing from a position of strength often prevents conflict.
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Motor City »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 8:32 pm

Nice in theory but I can’t remember a time in history where it has worked. I don’t think being strong and ready and willing to defend oneself means you can’t also he honest and compassionate. They aren’t mutually exclusive. I just think dealing from a position of strength often prevents conflict.
The strength is in love.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqbvhAZHriQ

Bishop Barber Speaks at WH Ceasefire Rally 11 20 23


The weakness in arms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsaNLNYywZo
"Killing People Around the Clock": Palestinians Mark Six Months of War on Gaza

concentrated power without love is a curse
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Glennfs
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Glennfs »

Motor City wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:05 am The strength is in love.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqbvhAZHriQ

Bishop Barber Speaks at WH Ceasefire Rally 11 20 23


The weakness in arms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsaNLNYywZo
"Killing People Around the Clock": Palestinians Mark Six Months of War on Gaza

concentrated power without love is a curse

This is where liberals and conservatives separate. You would be correct if we lived in a perfect world. In fact about 99pct of what progressives want and support would be fantastic.
But
We don't live in a perfect world. The only way in our imperfect world to achieve even a semi peaceful existence is through strength.
As for the rest of the progressive social agenda. If enacted nobody would work. There would be no incentive to build a better mousetrap. It would be like working in a union shop where the worst employee gets paid the same as the best employee. Before long the best employee says why am I working so hard, screw it.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
JoeMemphis
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by JoeMemphis »

Motor City wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:05 am The strength is in love.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqbvhAZHriQ

Bishop Barber Speaks at WH Ceasefire Rally 11 20 23


The weakness in arms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsaNLNYywZo
"Killing People Around the Clock": Palestinians Mark Six Months of War on Gaza

concentrated power without love is a curse
As I said, that’s nice in theory. But you do you and I will do me.
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ZoWie
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by ZoWie »

Motor City wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 7:59 pm Nations are usually at their weakest when their officials are corrupt and they have lost love for one another and brotherhood. They can attempt to defend that loss by buildup of arms and armor and weapons at the ready but its really avoiding dealing with the real problem, its putting it off further and further multiplying its toxicity. To defend ourselves from a position of strength is to return to love and brotherhood.
This, of course, is true. Russia held up the olive branch to the world, but the other arm was behind Vlad's back and it held a weapon. He wants the old USSR back and more, as any old spook would, and it's not hard to understand that. The guy is old line KGB all the way.

Now, Israel. This is a highly fraught topic because of the Holocaust, which will remain a stain on history for centuries. It's hard to discuss, which is why I just shut up when the war started. Now, though, silence makes the problem worse.

Israel's leadership, as we see only too well right now, has become weak and likely corrupt, and Hamas took advantage of that. All the military buildup in the world can't stop terrorism if the leadership has allowed a situation like Gaza to fester for decades. The idea that Gaza could simply be left to it and ignored was asking for an attack. It's one of those "What were they thinking?" moments. They simply walled off Gaza and let Hamas turn it into an underground fort.

Hamas fired 7000 missiles as cover for the attack. They didn't neutralize Israel's Iron Dome defense, they just saturated it. How the frack did they come by that kind of arsenal in the first place? Because Gaza had been walled off and forgotten, that's how. Oops.

It's incumbent on US supporters of Israel to demand a REAL investigation and some serious changes in attitude. Otherwise, war will remain inevitable, and the events precipitating it will become ever more destructive. Sooner or later one of these fanatic groups will come by a nuclear bomb one way or another. Hell, Iran might even sell them one. Then we can see WWIII from there. Time to get proactive.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
JoeMemphis
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by JoeMemphis »

ZoWie wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:50 am This, of course, is true. Russia held up the olive branch to the world, but the other arm was behind Vlad's back and it held a weapon. He wants the old USSR back and more, as any old spook would, and it's not hard to understand that. The guy is old line KGB all the way.

Now, Israel. This is a highly fraught topic because of the Holocaust, which will remain a stain on history for centuries. It's hard to discuss, which is why I just shut up when the war started. Now, though, silence makes the problem worse.

Israel's leadership, as we see only too well right now, has become weak and likely corrupt, and Hamas took advantage of that. All the military buildup in the world can't stop terrorism if the leadership has allowed a situation like Gaza to fester for decades. The idea that Gaza could simply be left to it and ignored was asking for an attack. It's one of those "What were they thinking?" moments. They simply walled off Gaza and let Hamas turn it into an underground fort.

Hamas fired 7000 missiles as cover for the attack. They didn't neutralize Israel's Iron Dome defense, they just saturated it. How the frack did they come by that kind of arsenal in the first place? Because Gaza had been walled off and forgotten, that's how. Oops.

It's incumbent on US supporters of Israel to demand a REAL investigation and some serious changes in attitude. Otherwise, war will remain inevitable, and the events precipitating it will become ever more destructive. Sooner or later one of these fanatic groups will come by a nuclear bomb one way or another. Hell, Iran might even sell them one. Then we can see WWIII from there. Time to get proactive.
Changes in attitude? Can you be a little more specific?

It’s impossible to make peace with someone bent on your destruction. Europe and Russia learned that lesson from Hitler in the 30’s and 40’s. Ask Chamberlain how well the outstretched hand worked for him. Hamas is no different. What could the Israelis have done to appease Hamas other than complete surrender? Now if you are of the opinion that they should have gone in much sooner rather than allowing Hamas to build all this hostile infrastructure, you may have a point. But I have a feeling there would have been objections to that type of policy as well.

I’ve asked before what the Israelis could have done differently. Never got an answer. I’ve asked before what they should do differently now. Still not getting many viable options. Surrender is not an option for the Israelis and they can’t allow Hamas to remain a viable force in Gaza. And Hamas won’t go quietly. Hamas won’t take an outstretched hand. They will only chop it off. So for us to demand the Israelis out an end to this crisis without offering a viable option other than the one they are pursuing doesn’t make sense. Do we expect them to live with Hamas? Is that the expectation? That’s a lot to ask.
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2024 9:22 pm I’m all for an honest debate. But you don’t have much to offer if the best you got it to pull out the whole race card bullshit. Pretty weak. Means you got nothing better to say. So shove that back up your ass where it came from.

Cheers.
Seems that Glenn disagrees with you, and agrees with Toonces, that you aren’t interested in real debate.
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:17 am Seems that Glenn disagrees with you, and agrees with Toonces, that you aren’t interested in real debate.
Well that didn't take long. You took a day or two off and within minutes you start a flame war.
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:21 am Well that didn't take long. You took a day or two off and within minutes you start a flame war.
Not at all. Seems to me it was Joe staring the flame war, insulting Toonces like he did.
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Re: Terrorist state of Russia emboldened by Western inaction

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:25 am Not at all. Seems to me it was Joe staring the flame war, insulting Toonces like he did.
There was no insult it was an observation about peaceful men being prepared for war.
Toonces sounds like a very nice person. But the they will leave us alone and live in peace if we are just nice doesn't work.
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