RadioFreeLiberal.com

Smart Voices, Be Heard
It is currently Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:54 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:58 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:24 pm
Posts: 22322
https://beta.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/09/12/trump-officials-tour-unused-faa-facility-california-search-place-relocate-homeless-people/]Trump officials tour unused FAA facility in California in search for place to relocate homeless people - Whole Foods Post

Quote:
President Trump has directed aides to launch a major crackdown on homelessness in California, spurring an effort across multiple government agencies to determine how to deal with sprawling tent camps on the streets of Los Angeles and other cities, officials said.


True to conservative form, a crackdown on homelessless just means an authoritarian crackdown on homeless persons.

And as usual, they ignore that rounding up people into warehouses has really bad precedents.

_________________
I've never said this about glen accurately pointing out your racism before, and I defy you to post a link to any post where I have.

With this race baiting comment outta carmen, I feel I owe the guy [glen] an apology.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:40 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am
Posts: 12718
I would suggest it isn't about the homeless folks at all, it's a jurisdictional border dispute being played out between the State and the Fed.

With the Fed using the homeless as their footy stepping stones, that's all.

:(


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:09 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:24 pm
Posts: 22322
I would suggest it isn't about the homeless folks at all, it's a jurisdictional border dispute being played out between the State and the Fed.

With the Fed using the homeless as their footy stepping stones, that's all.

:(


I agree, though I'd say it's both.

It's akin to picking on trans soldiers and the most despised immigrant groups like Muslims and people from south of the border...they aim for the most marginalized first, so nobody argues or otherwise can rationalize it. But we have a history of "relocating" citizens, here.

_________________
I've never said this about glen accurately pointing out your racism before, and I defy you to post a link to any post where I have.

With this race baiting comment outta carmen, I feel I owe the guy [glen] an apology.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:16 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 15268
Location: Sunny South Florida
No, Trump doesn't care about the homeless, anymore than he does about working or poor people. It's just the latest con. He's not doing this to help them.

But, this gives him a nice bogus bat to attack lots of cities with liberal/Dem mayors and large homeless populations, esp. in the hated Cal-i-forn-ia. See! Liberals make lots of people homeless! (Actually, it's conservative refusal to provide affordable and public housing that is the main source of the problem.) Conservatives used to make mouth noises about federalism/localism and the idea that the federal government should not interfere with how cities run themselves and deal with their own problems. But not when it comes to cities run by liberals with homeless people, apparently.

I agree with Carmen that mass relocations of any kind of people into newly established government facilities is rarely as benign or for their benefit as the gubmint claims. These kind of remind me of 19th century poorhouses and you only need to pick up your Dickens to find out how fun it was to live in those. Trump really wants homeless people "out of sight and out of mind" of business owners and city residents - he's not interested in actually helping them.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:44 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Posts: 19504
Location: The blue parts of the map
Rounding up L.A. homeless would be considerably like herding cats.

_________________
Human extinction is bad for business.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:31 am 
Online
Board Emeritus

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 19520
No, Trump doesn't care about the homeless, anymore than he does about working or poor people. It's just the latest con. He's not doing this to help them.


It's not even a "con" perfesser. It's automatic. It's deeply ingrained character and personality flaws, and because it's narcissism...it's deeply ingrained resistance.

As with any decent hostile/malignant narcissist...there are only two things that Trump cares about...
1. Having a constant stream of excessive admiration/adulation flowing in his direction.
2. Having a reliable stream of people crossing his path who he can fuck with.

Anything else is incidental.

The DSM clinical criteria for these two points are as follows:
(4) requires excessive admiration
(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

Of course he actually fulfills all the criteria, all 9 or 11 criteria depending on which DSM version one is looking at. But these two criteria are what a shitbag like Trump lives for. And I'll tell you what...we can look at people like this and understand how the empty experience of their childhood made them this way. But in my experience, it's few clinicians and far between, who are interested in taking the time and exerting the effort to try to help assholes like this. They're intractable assholes.

_________________
I never said you were a racist Ike.

BUT YOU'RE NOT RACIST....EXCEPT WHEN YOU ARE.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:32 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:06 pm
Posts: 13952
No, Trump doesn't care about the homeless, anymore than he does about working or poor people. It's just the latest con. He's not doing this to help them.

But, this gives him a nice bogus bat to attack lots of cities with liberal/Dem mayors and large homeless populations, esp. in the hated Cal-i-forn-ia. See! Liberals make lots of people homeless! (Actually, it's conservative refusal to provide affordable and public housing that is the main source of the problem.) Conservatives used to make mouth noises about federalism/localism and the idea that the federal government should not interfere with how cities run themselves and deal with their own problems. But not when it comes to cities run by liberals with homeless people, apparently.

I agree with Carmen that mass relocations of any kind of people into newly established government facilities is rarely as benign or for their benefit as the gubmint claims. These kind of remind me of 19th century poorhouses and you only need to pick up your Dickens to find out how fun it was to live in those. Trump really wants homeless people "out of sight and out of mind" of business owners and city residents - he's not interested in actually helping them.

The questions that needs answering:
1. Is it legal to force the homeless into this facility?
2. Does a homeless person have the right to refuse to go to the facility?
3. How long will the homeless people be housed in this facility?
4. Given the Trump administration's history of housing immigrants (children and adults in cages) seeking asylum how will those conditions in the homeless facility be any different?

I agree with you Trump is poking a stick in the eyes of liberal cities promising to do something but in reality he'll do nothing but claim he solved the problem.

_________________
When you vote Left you vote right.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:35 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Posts: 19504
Location: The blue parts of the map
Ray Gun made the first real urban homeless, as opposed to traditional Skid Row bums who'd hit bottom, when he was governor. It went from there.

The fact remains that rounding up homeless in L.A., along with being unconstitutional (when did that stop anybody?), would quickly turn into a process very much like herding cats.

_________________
Human extinction is bad for business.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:18 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 15268
Location: Sunny South Florida
I agree with you Trump is poking a stick in the eyes of liberal cities promising to do something but in reality he'll do nothing but claim he solved the problem.


Yeah, that's Trumpism 101.

Do something reality-showish for the cameras, proclaim you've solved some national or international problem, do nothing in reality, ask for the Nobel Peace Prize.

There is a solution for (a lot of) homelessness. It starts with building more affordable and public housing. Trump said anything about that? Didn't think so.

He put Ben Carson in charge of HUD. Nuff said. That was his day one way of saying he doesn't give a crap.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:32 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 15268
Location: Sunny South Florida
Wow. What a shock. Faux News has been "all over" this "issue" for the last month or so. We know they're really Dapper Don's policy bureau. But check out the rhetoric.

5 Points On Why The Homeless Are Trump’s Latest Fox News-Fueled Scapegoat
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/fivepoint ... apegoating

[snip]

Trump Has Echoed Fox News’ Dehumanizing Rhetoric

The Five co-host Jesse Waters described the homeless as “drugged-out zombies chasing barefooted babies through piles of garbage” and called for “bulldoz[ing]” their communities and “institutionaliz[ing]” them until they “detoxify,” according to Media Matters.

Tucker Carlson, a favorite host of Trump’s, has been particularly focused on the issue, airing a five-day “Homeless in America” series in May during which he harped on “junkies” in San Francisco “shooting up in broad daylight and homeless people wielding makeshift knives.”

[snip]

Homelessness Is Explicitly Being Tied To Trump’s Anti-Immigration Platform

Not only are Trump and his allies, in their demonizing of the homeless, using language similar to how they describe immigrants, they’re blaming immigrants themselves and Democrats’ immigrant-friendly policies for causing the homeless problem.

Fox & Friends co-host Brian Kilmeade suggested that California was “making a choice” and had decided that “illegals are more important than the people on the streets who obviously need medical attention,” according to Media Matters.

[snip][end]

So Trump is basically talking about the homelessness in dehumanizing ways echoing what Faux has been saying for a while.

Medical attention, Msr. Kilmeade? Or housing?

It's fascinating, they want to talk - once again - about mental health and medical problems. Stigmatizing the homeless as some kind of 'different' mutant strain of people. But nobody seems to really want to discuss the ROOT cause of homelessness.

That would be the lack of affordable housing. Which is as much a federal as it is a state and local problem.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:43 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:53 am
Posts: 16697
Go ahead you MOTHERFUCKERS (damn I wish I could use that word) and FUCk with the homeless, hopefully you will get it in return

_________________
"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:04 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am
Posts: 12718
Wow. What a shock. Faux News has been "all over" this "issue" for the last month or so. We know they're really Dapper Don's policy bureau. But check out the rhetoric.

5 Points On Why The Homeless Are Trump’s Latest Fox News-Fueled Scapegoat
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/fivepoint ... apegoating

[snip]

Trump Has Echoed Fox News’ Dehumanizing Rhetoric

The Five co-host Jesse Waters described the homeless as “drugged-out zombies chasing barefooted babies through piles of garbage” and called for “bulldoz[ing]” their communities and “institutionaliz[ing]” them until they “detoxify,” according to Media Matters.

Tucker Carlson, a favorite host of Trump’s, has been particularly focused on the issue, airing a five-day “Homeless in America” series in May during which he harped on “junkies” in San Francisco “shooting up in broad daylight and homeless people wielding makeshift knives.”

[snip]

Homelessness Is Explicitly Being Tied To Trump’s Anti-Immigration Platform

Not only are Trump and his allies, in their demonizing of the homeless, using language similar to how they describe immigrants, they’re blaming immigrants themselves and Democrats’ immigrant-friendly policies for causing the homeless problem.

Fox & Friends co-host Brian Kilmeade suggested that California was “making a choice” and had decided that “illegals are more important than the people on the streets who obviously need medical attention,” according to Media Matters.

[snip][end]

So Trump is basically talking about the homelessness in dehumanizing ways echoing what Faux has been saying for a while.

Medical attention, Msr. Kilmeade? Or housing?

It's fascinating, they want to talk - once again - about mental health and medical problems. Stigmatizing the homeless as some kind of 'different' mutant strain of people. But nobody seems to really want to discuss the ROOT cause of homelessness.

That would be the lack of affordable housing. Which is as much a federal as it is a state and local problem.


That probably wouldn't fix all that many homeless cases, any cost is too high. There would be many cases of clinical mental illness needing treatment if anyone could get them to go into a clinic. It's that stigma thing, I think the ones who aren't getting that treatment would tend to run and hide if they thought anyone wanted them to see that "kind" of doctor. The Ike kind of doctor.

I've talked with quite a few homeless folk through the years. They've all been hesitant about talking about medical clinics and doctors. There was one guy who's feet were swollen so bad I said I would haul him in and help him with the administrative browbeating which might be needed to get him care, he hobbled off on those sore painful feet at his best clip. I considered that to be running away, he wasn't taking any chance that I might decide to force him go.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:14 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:24 pm
Posts: 22322

That probably wouldn't fix all that many homeless cases, any cost is too high. There would be many cases of clinical mental illness needing treatment if anyone could get them to go into a clinic. It's that stigma thing, I think the ones who aren't getting that treatment would tend to run and hide if they thought anyone wanted them to see that "kind" of doctor. The Ike kind of doctor.


Yes, the kind who gets paid to punch down, marginalize, and pin stigmatizing labels on the usual suspects. :problem:

_________________
I've never said this about glen accurately pointing out your racism before, and I defy you to post a link to any post where I have.

With this race baiting comment outta carmen, I feel I owe the guy [glen] an apology.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:49 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 15268
Location: Sunny South Florida
Is homelessness a medical problem, or a socio-economic one? Is mental illness the CAUSE of homelessness, or the CONSEQUENCE? If you lived on the streets, constantly vulnerable to being chased around, raped, whatever pittance of belongings stolen, harassed and "bumfought" by people who beat you up, maybe that would MAKE you mentally ill?

I just find it fascinating that the Trump Maladmin and their Faux News allies are using the usual "medicalized" model of mental illness, but I would expect liberals might take a look more at it as a socio-structural problem, which it is, caused by poverty and lack of affordable housing, rather than some medically treatable problem of individuals.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... wbehibs500

Homelessness is a significant social phenomenon fundamentally conditioned by poverty and class inequality. However, while homelessness is best explained by social structural conditions, it continues to be understood as a phenomenon tied to the deviant behavior of individuals. Insofar as sociology serves a critical function in identifying how social phenomena are predicated by macrolevel contexts, it serves as an important counterweight to the overemphasis on individualistic explanations of these sorts of important social issues that is particularly common in the United States. Thus, where homelessness is understood as a function of deviance, mainly addiction and mental illness, there is a critical need for the sociological perspective. This entry explores the medicalization of homelessness, particularly where understandings of homelessness are conflated with disease concepts in a way that obscures social structural influences. We conclude by discussing how medicalized understandings of homelessness not only insufficiently explain it as a social problem, but impede efforts to remediate the fundamental inequalities at its foundations.

[snip][end]

Jimmy Carter is fighting homelessness the way it should be done. Not with medications, not by chasing them into government control centers, but

Image

Giving them homes.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:08 pm 
Offline
Policy Wonk
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 4254
A Florida woman was fined $100,000 for a dirty pool and overgrown grass. When do fines become excessive?

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI2SyfEfN2k


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:19 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am
Posts: 12718
Contra Costa county in California behaves in the same way. Real sharks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:40 pm 
Offline
Policy Wonk
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 4254
Is homelessness a medical problem, or a socio-economic one? Is mental illness the CAUSE of homelessness, or the CONSEQUENCE? If you lived on the streets, constantly vulnerable to being chased around, raped, whatever pittance of belongings stolen, harassed and "bumfought" by people who beat you up, maybe that would MAKE you mentally ill?

I just find it fascinating that the Trump Maladmin and their Faux News allies are using the usual "medicalized" model of mental illness, but I would expect liberals might take a look more at it as a socio-structural problem, which it is, caused by poverty and lack of affordable housing, rather than some medically treatable problem of individuals.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... wbehibs500

Homelessness is a significant social phenomenon fundamentally conditioned by poverty and class inequality. However, while homelessness is best explained by social structural conditions, it continues to be understood as a phenomenon tied to the deviant behavior of individuals. Insofar as sociology serves a critical function in identifying how social phenomena are predicated by macrolevel contexts, it serves as an important counterweight to the overemphasis on individualistic explanations of these sorts of important social issues that is particularly common in the United States. Thus, where homelessness is understood as a function of deviance, mainly addiction and mental illness, there is a critical need for the sociological perspective. This entry explores the medicalization of homelessness, particularly where understandings of homelessness are conflated with disease concepts in a way that obscures social structural influences. We conclude by discussing how medicalized understandings of homelessness not only insufficiently explain it as a social problem, but impede efforts to remediate the fundamental inequalities at its foundations.

[snip][end]

Jimmy Carter is fighting homelessness the way it should be done. Not with medications, not by chasing them into government control centers, but

Image

Giving them homes.

also though lack of democracy, corruption, consolidation and abuse of power have deep roots in bringing about proliferating homelessness.

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI2SyfEfN2k


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:25 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 15268
Location: Sunny South Florida
Trump continues to present homelessness as a problem ... once again, he doesn't give a flying f**k for actual homeless people, but he's going to use the police to round them up because they're hurting his and other bigwigs' real estate property values. :roll:

Trump says homelessness hurting real estate prestige, will destroy cities
The homeless are living in "our best highways, our best streets, our best entrances to building," Trump said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... s-n1055611

President Donald Trump renewed his complaints about homelessness Tuesday during a swing through California, talking about the harm it does to taxpayers seeking prestigious real estate and warning that cities will "destroy themselves" if his administration doesn’t intervene.

The homeless are living in "our best highways, our best streets, our best entrances to building," Trump told reporters traveling aboard Air Force One with him to a string of fundraisers in California. "People in those buildings pay tremendous taxes where they went to those locations because of the prestige.”

Trump went on to say he has been talking to "foreign people, foreign tenants" in California who want to leave the country because of the homeless problem. Trump has been increasingly raising concern about homelessness, and said the White House would be taking some sort of action soon.

[snip][end]

Yeah, we don't need to do anything for homeless people, but let's just round them up and warehouse them so they won't be sleeping in "our best doorways" to our buildings since that's all Trump appears to care about ... BTW shouldn't Mr. MAGA care more about our American homeless folks than what "foreign tenants" want?

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:08 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:53 am
Posts: 16697
Vile pile of human filth.

One of these days some good person is going to say ENOUGH and shit will happen.

Need millions in the streets with very serious attitudes, if you know what I mean.

_________________
"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ike Bana and 42 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group