The Lincoln Project

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Libertas
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The Lincoln Project

Post by Libertas »





I think a separate thread for all of their stuff is good...

Denounce him and ask he be removed or you support every single thing he does.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by bradman »

Libertas wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:53 pm




I think a separate thread for all of their stuff is good...

Denounce him and ask he be removed or you support every single thing he does.
i've noticed something lately that could very well trend......Is there a possibility The Lincoln Project could somehow backfire?
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Re: The Lincoln Project

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Why? Right now they seem to be making better anti-Trump ads than either Biden or the Dems.
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Sam Lefthand
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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by Sam Lefthand »

If negative ads are better then they are making better ads.

However I think positive campaign ads are better, and from that standpoint Biden's campaign is Sterling.

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Re: The Lincoln Project

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While I generally think positive campaigning is more virtuous, and in most circumstances I prefer it to the ridiculous mudslinging that many campaigns engage in, the sad fact is it works. Just like people say advertising in general has no effect on them - uh, no Madison Avenue wouldn't have such nice real estate if it weren't true. And it looks like Trump is already all in on a negative strategy from his side. Once again, Boden (I'm kidding) is still not the nominee, and yet I'm already seeing ads suggesting apparently he is a member in good standing with the CCP, charged with a Chinese strategy to destroy America.

The fact is, Lincoln Project is just very good at doing one devastating thing - reminding people of Trump's own words, tweets, and actions. That's not so much negative campaigning as pointing to reality. In a way, it's good they exist. They're all Repug/con nevertrumpers, so they can attack Trump negatively, while Biden doesn't have to be accused of using a negative strategy himself. He can distance himself from it. Saul Goodman.

I still don't understand how this could backfire. I get true believers will double down. I've seen it. Plug their ears tighter, make sure they double super sure can't hear no evil. But that's inevitable no matter what.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by ZoWie »

ProfessorX wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:40 am
The fact is, Lincoln Project is just very good at doing one devastating thing - reminding people of Trump's own words, tweets, and actions. That's not so much negative campaigning as pointing to reality. In a way, it's good they exist. They're all Repug/con nevertrumpers, so they can attack Trump negatively, while Biden doesn't have to be accused of using a negative strategy himself. He can distance himself from it. Saul Goodman.

I still don't understand how this could backfire. I get true believers will double down. I've seen it. Plug their ears tighter, make sure they double super sure can't hear no evil. But that's inevitable no matter what.
Right, it's Rick Wilson and his people. They go back to the beginning and they've gotten quite good at it. I see attempts to rebut from the other side, in videos using Biden's words. They copy the structure and production techniques like self-contradicting voice-over. Yes, I screen these, then I screen them out. You might say that I double down, but mostly I just note whatever new ideas they've come up with that the Democratic campaign should be copying and throwing back in their faces.

Whether or not this whole campaign will be fought in 60-90-second Internet videos is a separate interesting issue.

All this is inspiring me to make my own video. My software is primitive compared to what the pros are using, and my old computer isn't as fast as it was before the overclocking failed (thank you, DWP). However, I've made these before, and I think I could get relatively close to their standards for someone outside the biz. Obviously I don't need to hire a voiceover talent (they get union scale), since the underlying idea seems to be using public domain clips of the candidates' own speeches with title cards of what the makers want the viewers to think.

Interesting stuff.

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Re: The Lincoln Project

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From my recollection, in 1988 Dukakis was beating Bush 41 a couple of weeks before the election. Then Bush started running the infamous Willie Horton ads and Dukakis got trounced. Regardless of how noble it is to run positive ads, negative ads tend to be more effective which is why you see more negative ads than positive ads.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

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Oh sure, absolutely. That's a given. The right negative ad at the right time can swing an election. With Dukakis, there's also that photo of him riding the tank in the Snoopy hat, as if he's a kid playing war. That was absolutely toxic when the opposition got hold of it.

Another classic is the anti-Goldwater one with the kid counting petals pulled off a flower while They count down the nuke that turns her into various pieces of airborne isotopes. Aired once. Instant effect in the polls. They still talk about it. If Goldwater hadn't been associated with nuclear war before, he was after that.

Everyone's looking to hit whatever the nerve is this time.

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Re: The Lincoln Project

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ZoWie wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:15 pm
Oh sure, absolutely. That's a given. The right negative ad at the right time can swing an election. With Dukakis, there's also that photo of him riding the tank in the Snoopy hat, as if he's a kid playing war. That was absolutely toxic when the opposition got hold of it.

Another classic is the anti-Goldwater one with the kid counting petals pulled off a flower while They count down the nuke that turns her into various pieces of airborne isotopes. Aired once. Instant effect in the polls. They still talk about it. If Goldwater hadn't been associated with nuclear war before, he was after that.

Everyone's looking to hit whatever the nerve is this time.
You listen to Stephanie Miller? Her dad was Goldwater's running mate. I like it when she talks about how neither of them would have tolerated traitor or Moscow Mitch.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by ZoWie »

Oh sure, everyone likes Mama. She talks about her father a lot.

Yes, Goldwater was perceived as lunatic fringe. Today he'd be the center.

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Re: The Lincoln Project

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Goldwater was in some ways the Tea Party of that time (1964). He even had the slogan. "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice".

BTW, though, if you read his views on separation of church and state, you'll see stuff that most liberals would thumbs up.

One other fascinating point -- he really did believe the government was hiding information about UFOs, and pressed the Pentagon on it.

I agree with Zowie's point on the Overton Window. What I find fascinating is despite all the Reagan devotion, today even Ronnie might be run out on a rail by the GOP for his views on gun control and immigration. He even dared to offer the first "amnesty" .... ooh, the a word ... for undocumented.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

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ProfessorX wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:30 pm
Goldwater was in some ways the Tea Party of that time (1964). He even had the slogan. "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice".

BTW, though, if you read his views on separation of church and state, you'll see stuff that most liberals would thumbs up.

One other fascinating point -- he really did believe the government was hiding information about UFOs, and pressed the Pentagon on it.

I agree with Zowie's point on the Overton Window. What I find fascinating is despite all the Reagan devotion, today even Ronnie might be run out on a rail by the GOP for his views on gun control and immigration. He even dared to offer the first "amnesty" .... ooh, the a word ... for undocumented.
Reagan was a bad president, was not smart at all and had very bad people in his family telling him what to do.

But Ronald Reagan was not a narcissist psychopath like rump and his 45 million defenders. Ronnie would not have done many of the things they are doing now, sure he did harm LGBTQ and other minorities on a regular basis, so maybe my point isnt valid.

He was super bad, but compared to now, well, you know.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

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I'm definitely not a Raygun fan. I don't miss glen's slavish devotion to the man.

I'm only pointing out though, that he advocated some stuff the GOP would wholeheartedly reject today, like the Brady Bill and amnesty for undocumented immigrants.

Just like I'm not a Nixon fan, but, look, he DID go to Gina, and he created the EPA.

The weird thing is the GOP Overton Window has moved way to the right beyond them.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

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ProfessorX wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:30 pm
Goldwater was in some ways the Tea Party of that time (1964). He even had the slogan. "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice".

BTW, though, if you read his views on separation of church and state, you'll see stuff that most liberals would thumbs up.
I was stationed in Phoenix in the early 90s and when Goldwater endorsed a Democrat for a Congressional seat the local republicans had a fit. They removed a chair reserved in his honor from their headquarters basically saying he wasn't welcomed there anymore. BTW, the Democrat he endorsed won. Also, he supported gays serving in the military and fought to end discrimination against gays. He said: "The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they're gay," Goldwater asserts. "You don't have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that's what brings me into it."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/p ... 072894.htm
One other fascinating point -- he really did believe the government was hiding information about UFOs, and pressed the Pentagon on it.
Image
I agree with Zowie's point on the Overton Window. What I find fascinating is despite all the Reagan devotion, today even Ronnie might be run out on a rail by the GOP for his views on gun control and immigration. He even dared to offer the first "amnesty" .... ooh, the a word ... for undocumented.
I disagreed with almost everything Reagan said or did and I agree that he would be run out of town on a rail by this brand of republicans.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

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I agree that Saint Ronald of Dimwittington would likely not be looked upon well by today’s Republican Party. The only reason is that his place in the arc of degradation of the party and conservatism occurred in the past enough to not be acceptable. The Republican Party and conservatism started down a path that has lead inexorably to what it is today starting in the late 1940’s with Strauss, Kirk and Buckley. To be sure others like the John Birch Society contributed to hastening the party on its way. Goldwater followed by Reagan certainly played their part.

As for agitprop, it is an art as well as science. You can walk a thin line but a stumble can ruin your carefully laid plans.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by carmenjonze »

I do not trust them. They are cons.

Stop calling the cops on us.

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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by ZoWie »

ProfessorX wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:30 pm

One other fascinating point -- he really did believe the government was hiding information about UFOs, and pressed the Pentagon on it.
It's even better than that. He was also convinced that the early surveillance satellites of the era had found Noah's Ark. Some author had done one of those loony oooooo-eeeeeee-oooooo books about that, and he believed it. He pressured the CIA to actually look for the ark. They didn't find it.

The documents are available online, and they are known to be authentic. Goldwater got the CIA to search for Noah's Ark.

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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:17 pm
I do not trust them. They are cons.
Good instinct, NEVER trust a con...having said that, this is good news



https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213689323

'Burned to the ground': Anti-Trump Republicans set ... goal of defeating the GOP Senate
(I have committed the word 'new' from the OP because, at latest for the Lincoln Project, the goal has always been turfing out as many trump enablers from the Senate as possible)

‘Burned to the ground’: Anti-Trump Republicans set new goal of defeating the GOP Senate

A loose association of current and former Republicans working to sink President Donald Trump’s re-election now see another political feat that’s necessary for them to have a shot at reclaiming their party: flipping the U.S. Senate to the Democrats.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by Libertas »

And this



'
Democracy is at stake': Former Bush aides and staffers launch super PAC in support of Biden
Former officials from George W. Bush administration and campaign launched a super PAC in support of presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden, declaring they "knew it was time to take a stand."

The group of at least 200 former officials, aides and Cabinet secretaries formed 43 Alumni for Biden to block President Donald Trump from winning a second term, arguing on its website that "democracy is at stake" and there have been "far too many days filled with chaos emanating from the highest levels of government." The group is not directly affiliated with Bush.

"Our mission is clear, to elect Joe Biden as the next President of the United States. Through our advocacy, 43 Alumni for Biden seeks to unite and mobilize a community of historically Republican voters who are dismayed and disappointed by the damage done to our nation by Donald Trump’s presidency."

The group said many of its founding members are still Republicans and while "political differences may remain," it was important to revive "civil, honest and robust policy discussions."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... id=DELLDHP

I begged people to shame W and Cheney into speaking out and they have but not nearly enough. Above is good though.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by bradman »

ZoWie wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:32 pm
It's even better than that. He was also convinced that the early surveillance satellites of the era had found Noah's Ark. Some author had done one of those loony oooooo-eeeeeee-oooooo books about that, and he believed it. He pressured the CIA to actually look for the ark. They didn't find it.

The documents are available online, and they are known to be authentic. Goldwater got the CIA to search for Noah's Ark.
Kinda sounds like Goebbels search for the Aryan race.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by carmenjonze »

These Lincoln Project cons won't have any better policy positions than the current GOP, they're Bush/Reagan Republicans. All of them are married to karens or are karens. They are full of crap.

Stop calling the cops on us.

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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by ZoWie »

True. "Lincoln Project" obviously means a reactionary wing of the party which wants a return to what they consider traditional Republican values. I'm sure they'd have no problems with letting corporations suck up all the money in the world.

I'm just glad that they have the money and inclination to fill the Internet with well made attack videos. It's that strange bedfellows thing. It fits the moment, and that's about all.

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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:59 pm
True. "Lincoln Project" obviously means a reactionary wing of the party which wants a return to what they consider traditional Republican values. I'm sure they'd have no problems with letting corporations suck up all the money in the world.

I'm just glad that they have the money and inclination to fill the Internet with well made attack videos. It's that strange bedfellows thing. It fits the moment, and that's about all.
They are doing what we typically are less inclined to do, ATTACK with aggressiveness similar to the way GOP does, but when Lincoln Project does it, they can tell the truth. GOP never does, never.
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Re: The Lincoln Project

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Libertas wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:14 pm
They are doing what we typically are less inclined to do, ATTACK with aggressiveness similar to the way GOP does, but when Lincoln Project does it, they can tell the truth. GOP never does, never.
Democrats tend to be specific and provide a coherent argument as to why voters should elect them. republicans, on the other hand, simplify their message into an easy to remember emotion evoking slogan. The Lincoln Project is using republican messaging against Trump. As far as I'm concerned, I welcome their ads. As the saying goes, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
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Re: The Lincoln Project

Post by bradman »

Number6 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:38 pm
. As the saying goes, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Realpolitik

In the end...........It's kind of a fucked up belief.
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