Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

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Libertas
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Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Libertas »

During a pandemic why do you cons who wont speak out against rump want to take health insurance from 25 million Americans and take away protection from preexisting condition clauses and put the CAP back in as to limits?

You do know that ACA applies to ALL health insurance other than Medicare and Medicaid, right?
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by bradman »

Libertas wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:58 pm
During a pandemic why do you cons who wont speak out against rump want to take health insurance from 25 million Americans and take away protection from preexisting condition clauses and put the CAP back in as to limits?

You do know that ACA applies to ALL health insurance other than Medicare and Medicaid, right?
Because they want to murder everybody, right?
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Libertas »

bradman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:05 pm
Because they want to murder everybody, right?
They?
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

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Libertas wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:58 pm
During a pandemic why do you cons who wont speak out against rump want to take health insurance from 25 million Americans and take away protection from preexisting condition clauses and put the CAP back in as to limits?

You do know that ACA applies to ALL health insurance other than Medicare and Medicaid, right?
I truly believe the reason is because Obama made it a reality and this pisses the republicans off. For over 10 years they've been threatening to overturn it and replace it with their own plan but they haven't provided a plan yet.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Libertas »

Number6 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:27 pm
I truly believe the reason is because Obama made it a reality and this pisses the republicans off. For over 10 years they've been threatening to overturn it and replace it with their own plan but they haven't provided a plan yet.
The disaster it would be if it was overturned, a real nightmare for all of you.

The virus may even be considered preexsiting for ALL employer based insurance.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:27 pm
I truly believe the reason is because Obama made it a reality and this pisses the republicans off. For over 10 years they've been threatening to overturn it and replace it with their own plan but they haven't provided a plan yet.
People on your side of the aisle have been talking about replacing ACA with Medicare for All or single payer since ACA was implemented. Kinda makes me wonder if ACA was only the first step in the process. Personally I have no problem with ACA other than how it was sold to the nation. I think the current insurance model is focused too much on providers and employers. I would favor an insurance model that puts the insurance company to work for insureds/patients.

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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by ProfessorX »

I was in favor of a public option being added to ACA in 2009, but that quickly died in the Senate.

I want a public option added to ACA in 2021. My viewpoint has not changed.

I am not opposed to single payer/M4A, but I don't see a path to it, nor do I think it's the only way universal healthcare can be achieved.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Libertas »

ProfessorX wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:45 am
I was in favor of a public option being added to ACA in 2009, but that quickly died in the Senate.

I want a public option added to ACA in 2021. My viewpoint has not changed.

I am not opposed to single payer/M4A, but I don't see a path to it, nor do I think it's the only way universal healthcare can be achieved.
They dont answer, do they....notice that?

You dont hear from them about rump helping putin kill our soldiers and they dont seem too interested in what will happen if 25 million lose insurance and their insurance is turned to shit, as long as dear leader is still in power.

Or they COP OUT and say they dont mind it but how it was sold? :rw) Probably talking about the CREATED bullshit about keeping your doctor. Yes, you can keep your doctor, but most who would get ACA having no insurance prior HAD NO DOCTOR!

It is REMARKABLE to look at what they have shit fits over vs what they dont...prez helps kill our troops, fine, no problem, no comment from me...healthcare system dramatically improved but a handful of rightwing prick doctors refused to play along so THAT is the problem...

so done with them...


https://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/keepi ... alth-plan/


So if you had a shit plan that shouldnt even be legal, no you wont get to keep that...


The health care law also sets minimum standards for insurance coverage, requiring that all health plans cover mental health benefits, prescription drug coverage, vaccinations, dental and vision care for children, maternity care for women, and more. The upgrades mean that some plans that were inexpensive for purchasers — but didn’t cover the required benefits — would eventually cease to exist.

Americans who purchase such plans on the individual insurance market have been receiving notices that their current plans will no longer be offered after this year, as several news organizations reported in October. Those notices make it clear that Obama was over-simplifying and over-promising when he kept saying, “if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.”
The guy works his guts out to help Americans, cons dont deserve his help...You dont have preexisting or caps BECAUSE of him, your policy MUST provide certain basics BECAUSE OF HIM, and those basics can save your life.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Number6 »

Libertas wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:32 pm
The disaster it would be if it was overturned, a real nightmare for all of you.
I don't use the ACA but millions of people do and they need it.
The virus may even be considered preexsiting for ALL employer based insurance.
If I were still working it wouldn't be a problem for me because I have two of the best socialized medical insurance programs in the nation; Medicare and Tricare for Life.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Number6 »

JoeMemphis wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:39 am
People on your side of the aisle have been talking about replacing ACA with Medicare for All or single payer since ACA was implemented. Kinda makes me wonder if ACA was only the first step in the process. Personally I have no problem with ACA other than how it was sold to the nation. I think the current insurance model is focused too much on providers and employers. I would favor an insurance model that puts the insurance company to work for insureds/patients.
And for most of the time since the ACA passed, the Democrats haven't had control of both Houses of Congress. Your republican brethren in the Congress have blocked any and all attempt to bring about Medicare for ALL or single-payer.

It would be nice if insurance companies worked for the insured and patients but their primary concern is paying insurance executives outrageous salaries and guaranteeing
shareholders high returns. We've gone over this before how the administrative cost for Medicare run about 3% as opposed to 20% for the insurance companies.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Libertas »

Number6 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:08 pm
I don't use the ACA but millions of people do and they need it.


If I were still working it wouldn't be a problem for me because I have two of the best socialized medical insurance programs in the nation; Medicare and Tricare for Life.
Tricare I assume is a Kaiser version of a supplement, where you have to use them for everything but the monthly cost is small? Medicare advantage?

Anyway, what the IDIOTS who support ANY repub, not just traitor, do NOT understand is how little protection they had before ACA. How their coverage can be taken, changed, limited, preexisting applied, everything...without ACA that is their new existence.

If they know this and still want it, speechless.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Number6 »

Libertas wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:16 pm
Tricare I assume is a Kaiser version of a supplement, where you have to use them for everything but the monthly cost is small? Medicare advantage?
You assume wrong. Tricare for Life is a military medical coverage plan for those over 65 and pay their Medicare Parts A & B. Medicare is the first payer with Tricare as the secondary payer for the parts Medicare didn't/wouldn't pay for. I can be seen at any military hospital/clinic or civilian provider who accepts Tricare payments (which are most). If the military clinic can't or doesn't have the services to treat me they can refer me to civilian provider. I've had this done once for a dermatology referral and Tricare picked up the total bill. Having both Tricare for Life and Medicare I have greater choice in some care. Last year I requested an appointment with the eye clinic to get my eyes examined and they didn't have the personnel available to take care of retired members so they recommended I go to a civilian optometrist since I was on Medicare. I did and the entire examination was covered by Medicare and if there were any additional payments Tricare would have paid for that.
Anyway, what the IDIOTS who support ANY repub, not just traitor, do NOT understand is how little protection they had before ACA. How their coverage can be taken, changed, limited, preexisting applied, everything...without ACA that is their new existence.

If they know this and still want it, speechless.
I could sit back and say I'm covered and the hell with everyone else but I support either Medicare for All or single-payer because our society is dependent upon everyone working together to keep it functioning. Healthcare shouldn't be determined on a basis of who can pay but on the basis of who need medical care.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:14 pm
And for most of the time since the ACA passed, the Democrats haven't had control of both Houses of Congress. Your republican brethren in the Congress have blocked any and all attempt to bring about Medicare for ALL or single-payer.

It would be nice if insurance companies worked for the insured and patients but their primary concern is paying insurance executives outrageous salaries and guaranteeing
shareholders high returns. We've gone over this before how the administrative cost for Medicare run about 3% as opposed to 20% for the insurance companies.
No doubt. Conservatives do not favor government monopolies over health care. But ACA was not a Republican initiative but a Democrat initiative. It was more bipartisan in its opposition than it was in its support. So if your point is that the people who didn’t favor ACA as a solution still don’t favor it as a solution then I can’t argue with that point. However, Democrats aren’t happy with the program they passed and now what to replace it with something that concentrates even more power in the hands of government. It shouldn’t surprise you that conservatives don’t support that anymore than ACA.

As to operating costs of Medicare vs for profit insurance companies. It’s not apples to oranges. One is a for profit organization and the other is a government based entitlement program. For one thing the accounting is different. The reserve requirements are different. Fraud loses are handled differently. So the numbers aren’t really comparable.

But bottomline for me I have a problem giving the government an operating monopoly in an industry. It doesn’t make anymore sense to me than placing the same power in the hands of a corporation. I don’t believe that dynamic fosters better health care or innovation in medicine. The government currently controls a large percentage of the market. I don’t think they need it all.

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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

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JoeMemphis wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:49 pm
No doubt. Conservatives do not favor government monopolies over health care. But ACA was not a Republican initiative but a Democrat initiative. It was more bipartisan in its opposition than it was in its support. So if your point is that the people who didn’t favor ACA as a solution still don’t favor it as a solution then I can’t argue with that point. However, Democrats aren’t happy with the program they passed and now what to replace it with something that concentrates even more power in the hands of government. It shouldn’t surprise you that conservatives don’t support that anymore than ACA.
A call for a national healthcare system has been around since Teddy Roosevelt was president but little to nothing was done to make it a reality. The ACA is imperfect but it is a starting point in providing much needed coverage. I hope if Biden is elected and the Democrats take control of both houses of Congress the a Medicare for All or a single-payer plan will be passed and signed into law which will replace the ACA. This is, of course, provided everyone is covered.
As to operating costs of Medicare vs for profit insurance companies. It’s not apples to oranges. One is a for profit organization and the other is a government based entitlement program. For one thing the accounting is different. The reserve requirements are different. Fraud loses are handled differently. So the numbers aren’t really comparable.

But bottomline for me I have a problem giving the government an operating monopoly in an industry. It doesn’t make anymore sense to me than placing the same power in the hands of a corporation. I don’t believe that dynamic fosters better health care or innovation in medicine. The government currently controls a large percentage of the market. I don’t think they need it all.
If you have a problem giving the government a monopoly then you must have a problem with the U.S. Post Office which is a government monopoly. Conservatives for decades have been comparing how much better the private sector can do things than the government and one of the things they cite is costs. So why is comparing government-run healthcare insurance costs to private sector healthcare insurance like comparing apples to oranges but in all other matters of government versus the private sector it's comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges?
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Libertas »

Oh I bet they do have a problem with USPS, why have something that is not for profit and EXTREMELY effective when you can fuck it over and make a few people billionaires?
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:04 pm
A call for a national healthcare system has been around since Teddy Roosevelt was president but little to nothing was done to make it a reality. The ACA is imperfect but it is a starting point in providing much needed coverage. I hope if Biden is elected and the Democrats take control of both houses of Congress the a Medicare for All or a single-payer plan will be passed and signed into law which will replace the ACA. This is, of course, provided everyone is covered.


If you have a problem giving the government a monopoly then you must have a problem with the U.S. Post Office which is a government monopoly. Conservatives for decades have been comparing how much better the private sector can do things than the government and one of the things they cite is costs. So why is comparing government-run healthcare insurance costs to private sector healthcare insurance like comparing apples to oranges but in all other matters of government versus the private sector it's comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges?
You brought up the cost comparison 6 not me. I just pointed out that the comparison is not apples to oranges. As to the post office they to my knowledge are not seeking to displace Fedex or UPS. They are not seeking to take over the market. If they were, trust me you would hear about it.

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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Libertas »

There aren't many stories that render me speechless. This is one of them.
Republican Lawmakers Said They Were Forced To Go Along With Trump’s Ways Or Face Retirement

After a rather telling interview with the New York Times, it was revealed that both past and present Republican lawmakers are and have been so deeply under the thumb of Donald Trump that they have virtually no choice but to go along with whatever hair-brained, manic, and unhinged policy Trump has laid on the table that day — or face his ire and consider an early retirement.

Per the Times report, “Just under four years after he began his takeover of a party to which he had little connection, Mr. Trump enters 2020 burdened with the ignominy of being the first sitting president to seek re-election after being impeached,” continuing, “But he does so wearing a political coat of armor built on total loyalty from G.O.P. activists and their representatives in Congress. If he does not enjoy the broad admiration Republicans afforded Ronald Reagan, he is more feared by his party’s lawmakers than any occupant of the Oval Office since at least Lyndon Johnson.”

One former GOP lawmaker admitted that he was personally faced with the quandary of bucking Donald Trump back in 2017 and knew full well the consequences he would face if he decided to do so.

“By the summer of 2017, Dave Trott, a two-term Republican congressman, was worried enough about President Trump’s erratic behavior and his flailing attempts to repeal the Affordable Care Act that he criticized the president in a closed-door meeting with fellow G.O.P. lawmakers,” the report reads. “The response was instantaneous — but had nothing to do with the substance of Mr. Trott’s concerns. ‘Dave, you need to know somebody has already told the White House what you said,’ he recalled a colleague telling him. ‘Be ready for a barrage of tweets.'”

The ex-lawmaker revealed that he chose not to run for reelection, explaining, “If I was still there and speaking out against the president, what would happen to me?”

Trott is far from the only GOP lawmaker who has faced the nearly impossible conundrum of being a Republican who doesn’t agree with Donald Trump.

https://politicaltribune.org/republican ... 1Syx8fjo0E
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

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JoeMemphis wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:10 pm
You brought up the cost comparison 6 not me. I just pointed out that the comparison is not apples to oranges. As to the post office they to my knowledge are not seeking to displace Fedex or UPS. They are not seeking to take over the market. If they were, trust me you would hear about it.
Yes, because cost is a consideration for both government and private/employer healthcare insurance so it's a valid point.

As for the Post Office, neither Fedex or UPS are required to delivery to mail/packages to everywhere within the U.S.. You responded about the Post Office but you really didn't give an answer addressing why you opposed a government monopoly like the Post Office.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:18 pm
Yes, because cost is a consideration for both government and private/employer healthcare insurance so it's a valid point.

As for the Post Office, neither Fedex or UPS are required to delivery to mail/packages to everywhere within the U.S.. You responded about the Post Office but you really didn't give an answer addressing why you opposed a government monopoly like the Post Office.
Because the post office is not a monopoly.

As for cost comparisons, to be a valid comparison one needs an apples to apples comparison. If a fraud payment in one is considered a benefit payment while it is considered a loss in the other, that is not a valid comparison.

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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Libertas »

Number6, you will never get to them, and not because the idea of UHC isnt a great one, it is...

It is who came up with the idea is ALL they pay attention to...the worldwide facts of how well it works they dismiss, all they care about is

THAT WOMAN

or

THAT BLACK GUY

or

THAT LONG HAIRED HIPPY

came up with it so I am agin it...is that how you type that, instead of against agin? :rw) They are very easy to understand.

ps I am waiting for a con to come up with a good idea that I can support...more than happy to do it, but still waiting.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Libertas »

https://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/For ... reexisting

At Risk: Pre-Existing Conditions Could Affect 1 in 2 Americans:
129 Million People Could Be Denied Affordable Coverage Without Health Reform
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Number6 »

Libertas wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:23 pm
Number6, you will never get to them, and not because the idea of UHC isnt a great one, it is...

It is who came up with the idea is ALL they pay attention to...the worldwide facts of how well it works they dismiss, all they care about is

THAT WOMAN

or

THAT BLACK GUY

or

THAT LONG HAIRED HIPPY

came up with it so I am agin it...is that how you type that, instead of against agin? :rw) They are very easy to understand.

ps I am waiting for a con to come up with a good idea that I can support...more than happy to do it, but still waiting.
Cons will continue to argue a point all the while knowing what they're saying is a lie. They keep it up because they hope at some point those they're arguing with will give up and then the cons can claim they were right. Joe is a person who likes to do this with his "apples to oranges" argument. Claiming government healthcare can't be compared to healthcare insurance companies as if they're two different animals but in reality they are in the same field, healthcare, and therefore comparable. Now if we were comparing government healthcare to running a Starbucks then that would be an "apples to oranges" comparison.

I'm surprised he didn't bring up his infamous "fungible" argument. :roll:
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by ProfessorX »

Again, I will only state my position. I don't think it's NECESSARY to eliminate private medical insurance in this country, which is what most people mean by "single payer".

There are many countries with universal healthcare programs that don't use single payer. It's not the only way.

I personally would be very happy with a public option, which is available to all, but not forced on any. If they WANT to keep an employer-based or otherwise private health insurance plan, they can.

It would be exactly like the Post Office, which coexists with UPS and FedEx and other private alternatives.

Medicare4All could effectively BE the public option, IF we simply said everybody is eligible at age 1 instead of 65, but said you don't HAVE to take it. Now, I will grant, a lot of people under 65 still will. Some won't. And I think this system is workable. In fact, it's fairly close to the Scandinavian social democracies and the system they have.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by ProfessorX »

Incidentally, our almost candidate, Boden, (he hasn't been nominated technically yet, I remind), is in favor of adding a public option to the ACA, and I suspect should he be elected this is what's likely to happen in 2021.
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Re: Why do you cons want to take away ACA?

Post by Number6 »

JoeMemphis wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:22 pm
Because the post office is not a monopoly.
Congress established the Post Office as a monopoly by the Continental Congress in 1775. Today, they are the only ones who are allowed to deliver First Class Mail therefore they are a monopoly.

As for cost comparisons, to be a valid comparison one needs an apples to apples comparison. If a fraud payment in one is considered a benefit payment while it is considered a loss in the other, that is not a valid comparison.
Fraud is a benefit payment? In what world is fraud a benefit payment? Fraud is fraud whether it's against Medicare or against a insurance company. The difference between the two is one is a federal crime and the other is a state crime. It would be the same with murder. If a murder occurred on federal property, say Yellowstone National Park, and a murder was committed in downtown Memphis. In both cases a murder was committed. In both cases there was a victim. In both cases there was a perpetrator. The difference between the two is the former would be under federal jurisdiction and the later under city/state jurisdiction. This is an apples to apples comparison.

Comparing a Medicare to insurance companies is also an apples to apples comparison because they do they same thing; provide healthcare.

Nice try, but no soup for you.
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