Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

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JoeMemphis

Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by JoeMemphis »

bradman wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:22 pm [bold] You mean establishing procedures and protocols?

At least it wouldn't be an unfunded mandate. :mrgreen:
I mean state and local governments being in charge of law enforcement of state and local laws.
Glennfs
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by Glennfs »

:?: 7
gounion wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:19 pm Of COURSE there should be strings. And let's remember that, especially in the south, small-town police and the courts has always had the well-deserved reputation for massive corruption, ESPECIALLY towards people of color. I worked and traveled in the south, are there were a LOT of small towns the last thing you wanted was to get the attention of the police. Or go even one mile an hour over the speed limit.
That is BS With the exception of US 321 in Florida
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hottentot venus
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by hottentot venus »

gounion wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:38 am Oh, and one more thing. We need to get rid of Police Unions.
understatement of the century....
Blue Lives don't exist.

Stop drawing equivalence between racial identity and a job

Your career is a choice. Being black isn't.
gounion
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by gounion »

hottentot venus wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:57 pm understatement of the century....
Hard to believe I’d say that…
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by bradman »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:49 pm I mean state and local governments being in charge of law enforcement of state and local laws.
You and your states rights thang. :mrgreen:

But that's a large part of the problem. Some local and state standards are behind the times and are a detriment to police forces as a whole.

How would you suggest they be brought up to speed without an overall national game plan?
Last edited by bradman on Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by bradman »

gounion wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:14 pm Hard to believe I’d say that…
No it's not. A fucked up organization is a fucked up organization no matter who it represents. That's not saying we'd support police forces being without representation.

Kinda like the Teamsters Union. Prior to government intervention the representation sucked. The new representation is still far from perfect but it's far better than the previous representation.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
gounion
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:06 pm :?: 7

That is BS With the exception of US 321 in Florida
Not BS at all. But go ahead, deny police corruption.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by gounion »

bradman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:49 am No it's not. A fucked up organization is a fucked up organization no matter who it represents. That's not saying we'd support police forces being without representation.

Kinda like the Teamsters Union. Prior to government intervention the representation sucked. The new representation is still far from perfect but it's far better than the previous representation.
In most unions, once you break the law, you don't receive much support from the union. if a union member goes into the union workplace and starts shooting, the union isn't going to be filing a grievance on your behalf. At that point it's a police matter.

But in Police Unions, you are protected when you commit criminal action.
JoeMemphis

Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by JoeMemphis »

bradman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:37 am You and your states rights thang. :mrgreen:

But that's a large part of the problem. Some local and state standards are behind the times and are a detriment to police forces as a whole.

How would you suggest they be brought up to speed without an overall national game plan?
Nothing wrong with a game plan but state and local governments should have the final say in how and what things are done. I don’t have a problem with the federal government suggesting standards and procedures. I am just saying that state and local governments have the ultimate responsibility to determine the standards and procedures used by state and local law enforcement to enforce state and local laws.

Not every community has crime/enforcement problems. Not every community has the same crime/enforcement issues. They may have different needs. So it only makes sense to allow those governments to decide what issues need to be addressed and how. That’s what these local and state governments are elected to do. The Constitution doesn’t provide that the Federal government should manage state and local law enforcement. I highly doubt that state and local governments will willingly cede this responsibility to the Feds.

So the Feds can recommend. The Feds can offer funding. But it should be block grants to law enforcement without strings. I’m not interested in a power grab by the Federal government. Like it if not we are a Republic. If folks want to change that they should do it constitutionally.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:07 am Nothing wrong with a game plan but state and local governments should have the final say in how and what things are done. I don’t have a problem with the federal government suggesting standards and procedures. I am just saying that state and local governments have the ultimate responsibility to determine the standards and procedures used by state and local law enforcement to enforce state and local laws.

Not every community has crime/enforcement problems. Not every community has the same crime/enforcement issues. They may have different needs. So it only makes sense to allow those governments to decide what issues need to be addressed and how. That’s what these local and state governments are elected to do. The Constitution doesn’t provide that the Federal government should manage state and local law enforcement. I highly doubt that state and local governments will willingly cede this responsibility to the Feds.

So the Feds can recommend. The Feds can offer funding. But it should be block grants to law enforcement without strings. I’m not interested in a power grab by the Federal government. Like it if not we are a Republic. If folks want to change that they should do it constitutionally.
So if the local police force LIKES their corruption, they should have the final say, right?

I think that's why we're in the spot we are in now.
Bludogdem
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:14 pm Hard to believe I’d say that…
Not at all. Typically authoritarian. No problem for you to deny 1st amendment rights.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by Bludogdem »

bradman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:37 am You and your states rights thang. :mrgreen:

But that's a large part of the problem. Some local and state standards are behind the times and are a detriment to police forces as a whole.

How would you suggest they be brought up to speed without an overall national game plan?
There is no police power in the constitution. Belongs to state and local.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by gounion »

Why does this not surprise me? https://www.rawstory.com/jim-jordan-tyre-nichols/

Conservative idiot Jim Jordan:
"Well, I don't know that there's any law that can stop that evil," the lawmaker insisted, calling the video of the killing "difficult to watch."

"What strikes me is just the lack of respect for human life," he continued. "So, I don't know that any law or any training or any reform is going to change. You know, this man is handcuffed; they continued to beat him."

"The fact that we saw that these five individuals did not have any respect for life," Jordan said, "And again, I don't think these five guys represent the vast, vast majority of law enforcement. But I don't know that there's anything you can stop the kind of evil we saw in that video."
Now, what gets me in this, is how quickly Jordan is to call them evil, and saying they don’t have any respect for life. He’s already judged them as guilty.

So why is the reaction from the right so damned different than it was with Derick Chauvin? They never called him evil, they never attacked him for not having any respect for life.

But when the offending cops are black, it’s easy to run the bus over them. The reactions were so damned different when it was a white cop.

And you can bet the next time - and, of course, there WILL be a next time - if the cop is white, they will be much slower to condemn the cop.
gounion
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:59 am Not at all. Typically authoritarian. No problem for you to deny 1st amendment rights.
The cops are the authoritarian. The Police unions have outsized power, and they keep protecting corrupt cops.

You’re the one supporting authoritarianism. In a free society, cops are civil servants, not civil masters. You’re the one supporting a Police State.
gounion
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:00 am There is no police power in the constitution. Belongs to state and local.
I can tell you’re wishing for the good old days, aren’t you?

I bet Bull Conner is a hero of yours.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:06 am The cops are the authoritarian. The Police unions have outsized power, and they keep protecting corrupt cops.

You’re the one supporting authoritarianism. In a free society, cops are civil servants, not civil masters. You’re the one supporting a Police State.
Union didn’t keep the five police in Memphis from being charged. Police union powers aren’t outsized. A police union can’t protect them from illegal activities.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:09 am I can tell you’re wishing for the good old days, aren’t you?

I bet Bull Conner is a hero of yours.
Just pointing out what you are too ignorant to understand.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:12 am Union didn’t keep the five police in Memphis from being charged. Police union powers aren’t outsized. A police union can’t protect them from illegal activities.
See qualified immunity. And yes, the unions DO protect them from illegal activities. They keep the cops employed when they should be fired for cause.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:12 am Just pointing out what you are too ignorant to understand.
Bullshit.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by bradman »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:07 am Nothing wrong with a game plan but state and local governments should have the final say in how and what things are done. I don’t have a problem with the federal government suggesting standards and procedures. I am just saying that state and local governments have the ultimate responsibility to determine the standards and procedures used by state and local law enforcement to enforce state and local laws.

Not every community has crime/enforcement problems. Not every community has the same crime/enforcement issues. They may have different needs. So it only makes sense to allow those governments to decide what issues need to be addressed and how. That’s what these local and state governments are elected to do. The Constitution doesn’t provide that the Federal government should manage state and local law enforcement. I highly doubt that state and local governments will willingly cede this responsibility to the Feds.

So the Feds can recommend. The Feds can offer funding. But it should be block grants to law enforcement without strings. I’m not interested in a power grab by the Federal government. Like it if not we are a Republic. If folks want to change that they should do it constitutionally.
It's when the states rights strict constitutionalists conversation gets this far that i'm always reminded of Jim Jeffries....
1:20 in :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4&t=75s

Block grants for better pay. Cool. Now what happens if those cities and states tell the feds to stick the other "suggestions"?

Signed,
A living, breathing, kinda guy. :mrgreen: Now a few of us are going to go day drinking and catch the bread and circuses at the local watering hole. Have a nice day. :|
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JoeMemphis

Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by JoeMemphis »

bradman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:46 am It's when the states rights strict constitutionalists conversation gets this far that i'm always reminded of Jim Jeffries....
1:20 in :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4&t=75s

Block grants for better pay. Cool. Now what happens if those cities and states tell the feds to stick the other "suggestions"?

Signed,
A living, breathing, kinda guy. :mrgreen: Now a few of us are going to go day drinking and catch the bread and circuses at the local watering hole. Have a nice day. :|
I’m a living breathing kind of guy as well. As I said earlier, if other living breathing kind of guys don’t like the current constitution and the whole concept of a limited federal government and enumerated rights, they can all get together and amend the constitution. State and local law enforcement of state and local laws are by definition state and local issues. Now if they violate the constitution, then the Feds get to weigh in. But as for me, I don’t want a political appointee in DC to decide how law is going to be enforced at the local level. Sorry. That puts way too much power in the hands of the federal government and I see nothing in their track record that would lead me to believe they will do any better than state and local governments. Every other day we have people on both sides of the aisle talk about how dysfunctional the federal government has become. Now we want to give them more control over state and local matters. Doesn’t make sense to me unless we just want more of that same dysfunction at the state and local level.

Have a good time at the local watering hole. :D
Last edited by JoeMemphis on Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
gounion
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:57 am I’m a living breathing kind of guy as well. As I said earlier, if other living breathing kind of guys don’t like the current constitution and the whole concept of a limited federal government and enumerated rights, they can all get together and amend the constitution. State and local law enforcement of state and local laws are by definition state and local issues. Now if they violate the constitution, then the Feds get to weigh in. But as for me, I don’t want a political appointee in DC to decide how law is going to be enforced at the local level. Sorry. That puts way too much power in the hands of the federal government and I see nothing in their track record that would lead me to believe they will do any better than state and local governments. Every other day we have people on both sides of the aisle talk about how dysfunctional the federal government has become. Now we want them to give them more control over state and local matters. Doesn’t make sense to me unless we just want more of that same dysfunction at the state and local level.

Have a good time at the local watering hole. :D
There is and has always been MORE dysfunction at the local level. This is how things are handled if the local level rules:

Image

Image

I would say these are case of the local cops having too much control and not enough oversight.

This is why you don't let local and state police decide how they do their jobs.
Glennfs
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:04 am There is and has always been MORE dysfunction at the local level. This is how things are handled if the local level rules:

Image

Image

I would say these are case of the local cops having too much control and not enough oversight.

This is why you don't let local and state police decide how they do their jobs.
Way to go photos only what 60+ years old.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:09 am I can tell you’re wishing for the good old days, aren’t you?

I bet Bull Conner is a hero of yours.
What an ignorant thing to say.
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Re: Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:14 pm Hard to believe I’d say that…
Not hard at all. Now if they supported left wing extremist positions like all other unions you would be of a different opinion
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