Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

[ZoWie]

This is the last straw for me. I'm going to seek psychological help. My nerves can't take LA any more.

I blame the dysfunctional policing system for my problems, though of course I also blame myself.

[gounion]

Be sure to take care of yourself, Zowie.

[gounion]

Oh, and one more thing. We need to get rid of Police Unions.

[ZoWie]

Well, the police unions I know anything about are more like gangs than organized labor. They try to make cops immune to the same laws regarding unnecessary violence that they use as an excuse to terrorize the rest of the population.

It's good that the city of Memphis didn't fall for this BS, though of course now the whole country still has to go through another round of civil strife in the middle of a pandemic and political crisis, because a few of their bad cops did what bad cops do, and an innocent little guy who was doing nothing got tortured to death for no reason. I wonder how many more of these unpleasant urban affairs there will be this year.

[bradman]

I’m fine with testing and standards as long as the federal government doesn’t mandate. Nationwide tracking of cowboys is fine. Standard setting should be local but I think suggesting minimum standards is perfectly fine. Pay is a different matter as well. The Feds don’t need to get into setting pay levels for local law enforcement in my opinion. Those become unfunded mandates.

(chuckle) You and your mandates.

How can it be a nation wide effort for a testing standard and tracking cowboys without the Federal government being involved?

From what i've been told by local cops pay is part of the problem. Here in the cities the wages are 30 dollars an hour on the low end and 50 on the top end. Now go out to the rural areas here and they're getting half that. Go down to some of the southern states and you'll find some small cities paying minimum wage. Problem there is you can become a cop on minimum wage, build your cred with a GED and minimum training, and then turn around and qualify for the higher paying jobs in the cities years later. It's a shortcut and some cops around here don't much care for those that took that short cut. It's one of the reasons pay, testing and tracking, can't be local.

[ZoWie]

The problem is national, and any efforts to finally confront what is an ongoing national crisis with existential ramifications for the whole country, must also be national. You can't have states where the cops are free to terrorize the cities. Eventually some atrocity sets off yet another national crisis that we all have to deal with. Obviously, Federal jurisdiction and pre-emption are necessary.

[gounion]

Well, the police unions I know anything about are more like gangs than organized labor. They try to make cops immune to the same laws regarding unnecessary violence that they use as an excuse to terrorize the rest of the population.

It's good that the city of Memphis didn't fall for this BS, though of course now the whole country still has to go through another round of civil strife in the middle of a pandemic and political crisis, because a few of their bad cops did what bad cops do, and an innocent little guy who was doing nothing got tortured to death for no reason. I wonder how many more of these unpleasant urban affairs there will be this year.

Yep, this is the ONE TIME I say unions ARE the problem, and I don’t see any way to work it without banning them. You take away the union protection, and ban Qualified Immunity, and hold the cops accountable.

And ESPECIALLY hold them accountable per the Constitution. They must respect the Constitutional rights of our citizens, and if they break that - for instance, ignoring their rights in arrests, such as not allowing videoing cops, and not identifying themselves, they are fired upon first offense and never being allowed to be a police officer ever again, anywhere in the country.

[JoeMemphis]

(chuckle) You and your mandates.

How can it be a nation wide effort for a testing standard and tracking cowboys without the Federal government being involved?

From what i've been told by local cops pay is part of the problem. Here in the cities the wages are 30 dollars an hour on the low end and 50 on the top end. Now go out to the rural areas here and they're getting half that. Go down to some of the southern states and you'll find some small cities paying minimum wage. Problem there is you can become a cop on minimum wage, build your cred with a GED and minimum training, and then turn around and qualify for the higher paying jobs in the cities years later. It's a shortcut and some cops around here don't much care for those that took that short cut. It's one of the reasons pay, testing and tracking, can't be local.

I didn’t say the Federal government shouldn’t or couldn’t be involved. There’s a big difference between providing guidance on standards and mandating standards. Pay is a perfect example, what the local sheriff can afford to pay in Tishomingo County in MS is going to be different from the pay scale in Shelby Cty TN or Pinellas County in FL. So who is in a better position to make that determination? The local government or some political appointee in Washington DC? Folks in DC often think one size fits all. It doesn’t.

[ZoWie]

If the local sheriff can't pay a living wage, with the result being poorly trained, semi-literate cops who are armed and dangerous, then a different level of government should be in charge of law enforcement in that area.

This of course does not apply in the current problem we have, which seems to be more of an urban phenomenon. It tends to stem from the fantasy that fear is an effective means of ensuring compliance.

[JoeMemphis]

If the local sheriff can't pay a living wage, with the result being poorly trained, semi-literate cops who are armed and dangerous, then a different level of government should be in charge of law enforcement in that area.

This of course does not apply in the current problem we have, which seems to be more of an urban phenomenon. It tends to stem from the fantasy that fear is an effective means of ensuring compliance.

Living wage? That varies from community to community. One size does not fit all. A political appointee in DC has not a clue what it takes to live in every community. As I said, suggesting standards is perfectly fine but the local government answers to the local community. That’s where the ultimate responsibility and decision making should reside. Not with some anonymous political appointee who doesn’t answer to the people affected by the decision.

[ZoWie]

Granted that some county in a rural area is not New York City. I think the objection was more that right now it's possible for some poorly trained cops to get jobs in more nuanced precincts without necessarily gaining the nuanced understanding of how policing should work there. The Feds could set minimum standards without destroying local control of police.

[ZoWie]

Actually all this theoretical stuff is not addressing that problem that urban policing right now simply isn't working very well anywhere in the US.

[JoeMemphis]

Actually all this theoretical stuff is not addressing that problem that urban policing right now simply isn't working very well anywhere in the US.

I don’t disagree. As I posted earlier, we know what repeat offenders look like and they commit much of the violent crime. We could start by actually locking these folks up and keeping them locked up. That would go a long way in reducing crime and lowering the tension on the streets.

[gounion]

I don’t disagree. As I posted earlier, we know what repeat offenders look like and they commit much of the violent crime. We could start by actually locking these folks up and keeping them locked up. That would go a long way in reducing crime and lowering the tension on the streets.

Right now, with Qualified Immunity and Police unions, you can't do either. We have to have it so that cops are accountable for their actions. Right now they aren't.

[ZoWie]

Sorry, it's three dead and FOUR wounded in the rich folks' part of LA. There are a lot of body counts in the LA area lately. It gets hard to keep the casualty figures accurate.

Far as I'm concerned, Los Angeles is in a wartime condition. No one pays attention to covid precautions, so it's iffy to begin with, and then on top of that you have all the bang bang bang and everyone strapping up, then on top of that you have the existential crisis that the US is facing with policing. That last one comes home to roost here every time it happens anywhere in the country.

It's essentially out of control.

[ZoWie]

Memphis PD disbands its SCORPION unit

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/me ... -rcna68029

The Memphis Police Department said it has permanently deactivated its Scorpion Unit following the death of Tyre Nichols.

"In the process of listening intently to the family of Tyre Nichols, community leaders, and the uninvolved officers who have done quality work in their assignment, it is in the best interest of all to permanently deactivate the SCORPION Unit,” the department said in a statement Saturday. “The officers currently assigned to the unit agree unreservedly with this next step. While the heinous actions of a few casts a cloud of dishonor on the title SCORPION, it is imperative that we, the Memphis Police Department take proactive steps in the healing process for all impacted.”

[JoeMemphis]

Sorry, it's three dead and FOUR wounded in the rich folks' part of LA. There are a lot of body counts in the LA area lately. It gets hard to keep the casualty figures accurate.

Far as I'm concerned, Los Angeles is in a wartime condition. No one pays attention to covid precautions, so it's iffy to begin with, and then on top of that you have all the bang bang bang and everyone strapping up, then on top of that you have the existential crisis that the US is facing with policing. That last one comes home to roost here every time it happens anywhere in the country.

It's essentially out of control.

Hate to hear that Zowie. Take care of yourself.

[ProfX]

Just a reminder that there is legislation out there that could deal with many of these issues.

Not that McCarthy's clown caucus will do anything with it, but they SHOULD pass it.

[gounion]

Just a reminder that there is legislation out there that could deal with many of these issues.

Not that McCarthy's clown caucus will do anything with it, but they SHOULD pass it.

Nice step forward. Add banning Police unions, and it could go a long ways toward better policing.

What we have no is unworkable, and Joe wants more of it.

[bradman]

Granted that some county in a rural area is not New York City. I think the objection was more that right now it's possible for some poorly trained cops to get jobs in more nuanced precincts without necessarily gaining the nuanced understanding of how policing should work there. The Feds could set minimum standards without destroying local control of police.

Thank you.

The small city budgets reflects pay, training, tracking, and procedures. If the city can't afford it then the feds should help fund it. We can't afford not to. It's not a cure all, but it is one part of a complex problem that should be addressed.

[bradman]

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-con ... -bill/1280
George Floyd Justice in Policing Act of 2021

This bill addresses a wide range of policies and issues regarding policing practices and law enforcement accountability. It increases accountability for law enforcement misconduct, restricts the use of certain policing practices, enhances transparency and data collection, and establishes best practices and training requirements.

The bill enhances existing enforcement mechanisms to remedy violations by law enforcement. Among other things, it does the following:

lowers the criminal intent standard—from willful to knowing or reckless—to convict a law enforcement officer for misconduct in a federal prosecution,
limits qualified immunity as a defense to liability in a private civil action against a law enforcement officer, and
grants administrative subpoena power to the Department of Justice (DOJ) in pattern-or-practice investigations.
It establishes a framework to prevent and remedy racial profiling by law enforcement at the federal, state, and local levels. It also limits the unnecessary use of force and restricts the use of no-knock warrants, chokeholds, and carotid holds.

The bill creates a national registry—the National Police Misconduct Registry—to compile data on complaints and records of police misconduct. It also establishes new reporting requirements, including on the use of force, officer misconduct, and routine policing practices (e.g., stops and searches).

Finally, it directs DOJ to create uniform accreditation standards for law enforcement agencies and requires law enforcement officers to complete training on racial profiling, implicit bias, and the duty to intervene when another officer uses excessive force.

Kinda sounds like a no-brainer to me. And yet here we are in 2023.

[JoeMemphis]

Thank you.

The small city budgets reflects pay, training, tracking, and procedures. If the city can't afford it then the feds should help fund it. We can't afford not to. It's not a cure all, but it is one part of a complex problem that should be addressed.

I agree it’s complex. Not sure how it works. Who gets subsidies. Who doesn’t. Are there conditions? Federal money rarely comes without conditions.

[gounion]

I agree it’s complex. Not sure how it works. Who gets subsidies. Who doesn’t. Are there conditions? Federal money rarely comes without conditions.

Of COURSE there should be strings. And let's remember that, especially in the south, small-town police and the courts has always had the well-deserved reputation for massive corruption, ESPECIALLY towards people of color. I worked and traveled in the south, are there were a LOT of small towns the last thing you wanted was to get the attention of the police. Or go even one mile an hour over the speed limit.

[bradman]

I agree it’s complex. Not sure how it works. Who gets subsidies. Who doesn’t. Are there conditions? Federal money rarely comes without conditions.

[bold] You mean establishing procedures and protocols?

At least it wouldn't be an unfunded mandate.

[gounion]

[bold] You mean establishing procedures and protocols?

At least it wouldn't be an unfunded mandate.

Yeah, whining about an "unfunded mandate" is such an hilarious stretch. Joe, thanks for playing Grasping for Straws!