Ukraine

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Number6
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Number6 »

ap215 wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:15 am The man who evacuated 200 people from Mariupol in a battered red van

KYIV (Reuters) - As Russian forces tightened their siege of Mariupol and missiles rained down, Mykhailo Puryshev drove into the city six times last month to evacuate its citizens, somehow surviving despite his red van being all but destroyed.

The 36-year-old Ukrainian, who once ran a nightclub in the city, said he evacuated more than 200 people on his six perilous trips and others began to join him in convoy into his hometown.

https://www.aol.com/news/man-evacuated- ... 17343.html
I think the guy may be exaggerating the number of people he evacuated. Six trip means he took 33 people each trip. Looking at the picture in the link, the van looks like it could hold no more than 15 people at the most.
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ProfX
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Re: Ukraine

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Israel lashes out at Russia over Lavrov's Nazism remarks
https://news.yahoo.com/israel-lashes-ru ... 30896.html

[Lavrov said] “So when they say ‘How can Nazification exist if we’re Jewish?’ In my opinion, Hitler also had Jewish origins, so it doesn’t mean absolutely anything. For some time we have heard from the Jewish people that the biggest antisemites were Jewish," he said, speaking to the station in Russian, dubbed over by an Italian translation.

[snip][end]

Lavrov continues to improve his skills at sophistry. First off, I agree this phenomenon is real. Yes, there are self-hating Jews. There was the infamous leader of the American Nazi Party in the 60s who had, it was revealed, Jewish ancestry. All kinds of minorities can internalize prejudices against their own group (which is why I always bristle when people ask "how can Black police do racist policing?") Yes, that happens.

Whether Hitler had any Jewish ancestry is still somewhat debatable by historians. For sure, if he did, it didn't seem to matter to him, much.

However, I know of no Jewish person, nor those of any standing or repute, who would say the "biggest" anti-Semites are themselves Jewish. :roll: Yeah, people like Vladimir Zhirinosky exist, but they are the exception, not the rule. I understand some people in the Orthodox community are not happy that Zelensky has a Orthodox Christian wife or baptized his kids. It doesn't happen to bother me, and for sure, I don't think that makes him anti-Semitic. :roll:

Again, Mr. Lavrov, I don't dispute you can find Mein Kampf in some Azov Battalion bunkers, but I ask you, why is Vladimir Putin handing out Ivan Ilyich pamphlets to Russian troops?

We can debate what has been happening to Russian speakers in the Donbass region over the last 8 years. I would argue those who advocated for violent separatism and terrorism got a military response from the government. I also agree that like ethnolinguistic minorities the world over, they do face some discriminatory treatment. But being subjected to Nazi genocide like the Holocaust? Just ridiculous.
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xs6xAeJegQ
Jan Egeland: We Need Negotiations, Not an Arms Race, to End War in Ukraine & Prevent a New Cold War

.. U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi became the highest-ranking American official to visit Kyiv, days after President Joe Biden asked Congress for an additional $33 billion in military and humanitarian aid for Ukraine. For more on the war in Ukraine, now in its 10th week, we speak with Norwegian Refugee Council head Jan Egeland, who has been visiting Ukrainian cities “devastated beyond belief” by the Russian invasion. “I don’t think the world has understood enough that this suffering will become even deeper, especially in the east and the south, if the war is allowed to rage on like now.” Egeland says the only way to end the war is through talks, and warns against an “arms race” that could continue to fuel the conflict.
Keeping the wars going to achieve various agendas neoconservative agendas, defense contractor agendas, pride agendas is bad for everyone.
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ProfX
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ProfX »

I would like the war in Ukraine to end yesterday.

Putin has the sole power to do it. I'm with you. He should end it. HE is the invader and aggressor: he needs to pull all his troops out.

Zelensky has tried several times to start peace negotiations with him; he keeps refusing.

I'm fine with continuing to heighten pressure on him to come to the negotiation table. Seems he won't settle for less than the all of south-eastern Ukraine, but ... maybe he can be forced to take less.
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bradman
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Re: Ukraine

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Motor City wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:24 pm Its exactly like that, its how blackwaters are born and grown. The cole bombing morphed them into a beast.

President Biden asks for $33 billion in additional Ukraine funds from Congress



of all the money spent so far only have produced dead bodies and wrecked the environment

US State Department: $165 million in Warsaw Pact ammunition approved for sale



American man killed while fighting in Ukraine
Don't knows for sure how Blackwater would do under the Biden administration, but i'd like to think it'd be way less a danger than under, say, a Bush administration.

Here's the curious thing to me MC. In order to achieve the desire to do away with the arms industry, in Ukraine's case, they would have to capitulate to Putin. So, i guess my question would be, should Ukraine surrender?
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

bradman wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 9:15 pm

Don't knows for sure how Blackwater would do under the Biden administration, but i'd like to think it'd be way less a danger than under, say, a Bush administration.

Here's the curious thing to me MC. In order to achieve the desire to do away with the arms industry, in Ukraine's case, they would have to capitulate to Putin. So, i guess my question would be, should Ukraine surrender?
Blackwater would do exactly the same or worse, they told us who they were then. Why learn this lesson over again?

Enraged Mob in Falluja Kills 4 American Contractors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJIjklgQsmo

I dont know what Ukraine should do I just know America should not surrender to the evil of never ending incremental violence and destruction. Having seen its own ugly transformation should make it clear which way to lead with.
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Glennfs
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Glennfs »

Motor City wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:01 pm Blackwater would do exactly the same or worse, they told us who they were then. Why learn this lesson over again?

Enraged Mob in Falluja Kills 4 American Contractors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJIjklgQsmo

I dont know what Ukraine should do I just know America should not surrender to the evil of never ending incremental violence and destruction. Having seen its own ugly transformation should make it clear which way to lead with.
I believe we should trust our military and our government to do what is best for the USA. Which thus far it appears they have done.
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

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Glennfs wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 3:58 pm I believe we should trust our military and our government to do what is best for the USA. Which thus far it appears they have done.
yea oops they did it again
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bradman
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Re: Ukraine

Post by bradman »

Motor City wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:01 pm Blackwater would do exactly the same or worse, they told us who they were then. Why learn this lesson over again?

Enraged Mob in Falluja Kills 4 American Contractors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJIjklgQsmo

I dont know what Ukraine should do I just know America should not surrender to the evil of never ending incremental violence and destruction. Having seen its own ugly transformation should make it clear which way to lead with.
[bold] So does that mean Putin included?
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carmenjonze
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Re: Ukraine

Post by carmenjonze »

Today in But Hey I Thought You Guys Were Such Rugged Individualists And The Rest of Us Are Government-Dependent
Glennfs wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 3:58 pm I believe we should trust our military and our government to do what is best for the USA. Which thus far it appears they have done.
World history: [Fallujah happens.]

Glennfs: I believe we should trust our military and our government to do what is best for the USA.

:problem:
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

bradman wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 10:47 pm [bold] So does that mean Putin included?
How could that include putin hes not America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt4328MAB80
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

G-7 leaders mark VE Day stressing unity, support for Ukraine
....The Biden administration said the new sanctions prohibiting U.S. accounting and consulting firms from doing business in Russia will help thwart Russian companies and elites from getting help to obscure their wealth and evade an avalanche of sanctions that have already been enacted......
So just prohibiting American Accounting and consulting firms from doing business in Russia will stop Russian businesses and billionaires from being able to obscure their wealth and evade sanctions. What does that tell us about American Accounting and consulting firms.
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ProfX
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Re: Ukraine

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So, for his May 9th "Victory Day" speech, Putin blamed the West, said in fact he had to defend Russia against a Western invasion of Russia, saying the West had imminent plans to invade Crimea. BTW, most of the world doesn't recognize Russia's annexation of Crimea. But he didn't say anywhere where such "plans" existed. He also said the West was going to invade the Donbass, which he also said was part of Russia. Uh, again, no, just because Russian separatists live there doesn't mean those territories are part of Russia, but once again, these "plans" and their existence were never shown. Or any "plans" to put Western/NATO nuclear weapons on Ukrainian territory.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/9 ... red-square

I found this part very interesting. "Russia has a different character. We will never abandon our love for the Motherland, our faith and traditional values, the customs of our ancestors," -- hmmm. Russian version of MAGAIsm? Fighting Nazis, by sounding like them?

Full of the usual revisionism, lies, and bogus justifications.
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ap215
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ap215 »

Biden calls on Congress to ‘immediately’ pass major Ukraine aid package before new Covid funding

President Joe Biden urged Congress on Monday to quickly approve a multibillion-dollar aid package for Ukraine before trying to pass a new round of Covid-19 funding, warning that U.S. aid for that country’s fighters has nearly been exhausted.

Biden’s new position marked a reversal from his insistence last month that the military aid and the pandemic funding be bundled together. Decoupling the two bills significantly increases the chances Congress will pass the $33 billion in requested Ukraine funding, while dimming hope for the $10 billion in Covid relief funds Biden said are necessary to supply updated vaccines and shots for the fall.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/09/biden-c ... nding.html
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

ap215 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 2:15 pm Biden calls on Congress to ‘immediately’ pass major Ukraine aid package before new Covid funding

President Joe Biden urged Congress on Monday to quickly approve a multibillion-dollar aid package for Ukraine before trying to pass a new round of Covid-19 funding, warning that U.S. aid for that country’s fighters has nearly been exhausted.

Biden’s new position marked a reversal from his insistence last month that the military aid and the pandemic funding be bundled together. Decoupling the two bills significantly increases the chances Congress will pass the $33 billion in requested Ukraine funding, while dimming hope for the $10 billion in Covid relief funds Biden said are necessary to supply updated vaccines and shots for the fall.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/09/biden-c ... nding.html
In other words they want to hurry up and milk it for all they can before time runs out.


For the wealthy and for the impoverished
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMyCa35_mOg
The waiting is the hardest part


“We cannot afford delay in this vital war effort,” Biden said in a written statement. “Hence, I am prepared to accept that these two measures move separately, so that the Ukrainian aid bill can get to my desk right away.”....

Biden said he has “nearly exhausted" his authority to continue shipping military aid to Ukraine, adding, “We are approximately ten days from hitting this critical deadline."

Democrats have offered their latest proposal to the GOP.

“I'm focused on getting it done without extraneous matters on it, and getting it done quickly," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said of the latest proposal. He said the measure “may adjust some in the process."
Democrats want to boost Biden Ukraine aid plan to near $40B
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carmenjonze
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Re: Ukraine

Post by carmenjonze »

Motor City wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 6:03 pm In other words they want to hurry up and milk it for all they can before time runs out.


For the wealthy and for the impoverished
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMyCa35_mOg
The waiting is the hardest part









Democrats want to boost Biden Ukraine aid plan to near $40B
I’m all for as much aid to Ukraine as possible. I’m also curious what would happen if we called the military budget “another government program.” :problem:
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Re: Ukraine

Post by bradman »

Motor City wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 6:03 pm In other words they want to hurry up and milk it for all they can before time runs out.


For the wealthy and for the impoverished
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMyCa35_mOg
The waiting is the hardest part











Democrats want to boost Biden Ukraine aid plan to near $40B
[bold] Or, it could be thought of another way.....

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/09/biden-c ... nding.html
Biden’s new position marked a reversal from his insistence last month that the military aid and the pandemic funding be bundled together.
Tying Covid funds to helping the Ukrainians would probably fail. In that case, Biden has his priorities right.
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ap215
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ap215 »

Nail 'Em

Ukraine to hold first war crimes trial of captured Russian

ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine’s top prosecutor disclosed plans Wednesday for the first war crimes trial of a captured Russian soldier, as fighting raged in the east and south and the Kremlin left open the possibility of annexing a corner of the country it seized early in the invasion.

Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova said her office charged Sgt. Vadin Shyshimarin, 21, in the killing of an unarmed 62-year-old civilian who was gunned down while riding a bicycle in February, four days into the war.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrai ... 20invasion.
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Re: Ukraine

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Finland Moves Toward Joining NATO Amid Russian Threats.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrai ... 31d6692683

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Finland’s leaders Thursday came out in favor of applying to join NATO, and Sweden could do the same within days, in a historic realignment on the continent 2 1/2 months after Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine sent a shiver of fear through Moscow’s neighbors.

The Kremlin reacted by warning it will be forced to take retaliatory “military-technical” steps.

On the ground, meanwhile, Russian forces pounded areas in Ukraine’s east, including the last pocket of resistance in Mariupol, as part its offensive to take the vital industrial Donbas region, while Ukraine recaptured some towns and villages in the country’s northeast.

Finland’s president and prime minister announced that the Nordic country should apply right away for membership in NATO, the military defense pact founded in part to counter the Soviet Union.
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Number6
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Re: Ukraine

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marindem01 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:34 am Finland Moves Toward Joining NATO Amid Russian Threats.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrai ... 31d6692683

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Finland’s leaders Thursday came out in favor of applying to join NATO, and Sweden could do the same within days, in a historic realignment on the continent 2 1/2 months after Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine sent a shiver of fear through Moscow’s neighbors.

The Kremlin reacted by warning it will be forced to take retaliatory “military-technical” steps.

On the ground, meanwhile, Russian forces pounded areas in Ukraine’s east, including the last pocket of resistance in Mariupol, as part its offensive to take the vital industrial Donbas region, while Ukraine recaptured some towns and villages in the country’s northeast.

Finland’s president and prime minister announced that the Nordic country should apply right away for membership in NATO, the military defense pact founded in part to counter the Soviet Union.
One of Putin's justification for the war was because of NATO's expansion and it looks as if two non-NATO countries now want to join NATO. It seems Putin, not Ukraine, is the cause of NATO's expansion.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:26 pm One of Putin's justification for the war was because of NATO's expansion and it looks as if two non-NATO countries now want to join NATO. It seems Putin, not Ukraine, is the cause of NATO's expansion.
Yep. He clearly misread Ukrainians, the EU, and NATO.

There is no peace deal with Putin. It’s like signing a treaty with Hitler.
Last edited by JoeMemphis on Thu May 12, 2022 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:11 pm Yep. He clearly misread Ukrainians, the EU, and NATO.

There is no peace deal with Putin. It’s like signing a treaty with Hitler.
Just think of all the right-wingers that thought Putin was a great man. Like Trump and the NRA.
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

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gounion wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:23 pm Just think of all the right-wingers that thought Putin was a great man. Like Trump and the NRA.
Like seditionist Paul Gosar, who just posted this yesterday


Rep. Paul Gosar, DDS @RepGosar - verified
Ukraine is not our ally. Russia is not our enemy. We need to address our crippling debt, inflation and immigration problems. None of this is Putin's fault.


https://twitter.com/RepGosar/status/1524562978535874570
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Drak »

Joe Biden has also handled Ukraine like a pro, and has done a masterful job, overall,
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Are the same that burn crosses"

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ProfX
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Re: Ukraine

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Drak wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:27 pm Rep. Paul Gosar, DDS @RepGosar - verified
Ukraine is not our ally. Russia is not our enemy. We need to address our crippling debt, inflation and immigration problems. None of this is Putin's fault.
So interesting what, as usual, is ignored there. I agree Ukraine is not a formal ally - not a member of NATO, no formal treaties with U.S.

That said, Ukraine is a pro-Western democracy, Russia is currently an anti-Western autocracy. Most of the world acknowledges Russia is the unwarranted aggressor in the conflict.

Russia is not our enemy? Well, they launched cyber-attacks on the U.S. for years ... so I disagree ... that his how hostile nations act.

Disagree with the final points, too. Russia's war on Ukraine is fueling global inflation, and causing a large influx of Ukrainian refugees into many places, including our own country. Not that I don't think we should take Ukrainian refugees in, but, obviously, it affects our nation with the costs of absorption.
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