Ukraine

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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

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Libertas
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:10 pm When was the last winnable war? The UK in the Falklands? Even that issue seems to be coming around again.

WWII looked winnable, but here we go again with Central Europe and the South China Sea. Plus ce change...................

War in general seems to be somewhat related to the delusions of people who become leaders for the wrong reasons or stay in power for too long.
Trying to understand the logic, so if Canada turned fascist overnight and obtained more weapons than we had And they invaded our country and started killing us saying they're going to take over we should lay down our weapons and allow that we because war is bad?

Because the Vietnam War was stupid and a debacle and waste of human life, any war like the Ukrainians trying to defend themselves is also stupid?

Rhetorical I hope. Not asking you, but there are folks out there who I would ask.
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ZoWie
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ZoWie »

My point is that winning wars is something of an illusion. It just creates the reasons for the next war.

We need fewer wars on drugs, etc, and more wars on war. The world is too interdependent for 16th century "solutions" to work any more.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Libertas
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:19 pm My point is that winning wars is something of an illusion. It just creates the reasons for the next war.

We need fewer wars on drugs, etc, and more wars on war. The world is too interdependent for 16th century "solutions" to work any more.
War on drugs was a war on Black people.

Just say no was stupid and from simple minds.

Yes, wars are bad.
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Drak »

This is the leader of the Republican army. Anyone who claims Trump and a large portion of the GOP isn’t pro Russia and pro Putin, is lying.

Video at link

Aaron Rupar @atrupar
"I got along very well with Putin" -- we noticed

Aaron Rupar @atrupar
Trump muses about Russia blowing up the NATO headquarters

https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/stat ... 0854965249
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Libertas
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Libertas »

Drak wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:19 pm This is the leader of the Republican army. Anyone who claims Trump and a large portion of the GOP isn’t pro Russia and pro Putin, is lying.

Video at link

Aaron Rupar @atrupar
Trump muses about Russia blowing up the NATO headquarters

https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/stat ... 0854965249
Yep, he and the GOP and their voters do support Russia, not Ukraine. They do support Putin and not Biden. They will sit by and do nothing when trump orders the more violent of his klan to kill us.
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ap215
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ap215 »

Pentagon accused of blocking effort to hand Russia war crimes evidence to ICC

The Pentagon has been accused of blocking the sharing of US intelligence with the international criminal court (ICC) about Russian war crimes in Ukraine.

The Biden White House and state department have been a proponent of cooperation with the Hague-based ICC, as a means of holding Russian forces accountable for widespread war crimes, but the defence department is firmly opposed on the grounds that the precedent could eventually be turned against US soldiers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... war-crimes
Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

Thousands of people in Ukraine have complex war-related injuries, says WHO
Thousands of people in Ukraine have sustained complex injuries linked to the war and need rehabilitation services and equipment to help them, a senior World Health Organization (WHO) official said on Tuesday.

They include fractures, amputations, spinal cord injuries, traumatic brain injuries and burns, Dr Satish Mishra from the WHO's regional office for Europe, told a media briefing.

Attacks on healthcare facilities, fewer healthcare workers due to displacement and power shortages were all making it difficult for people to get care, he added.......
Jerome Powell remarks today: Fed chair testifies before Senate on inflation, speeding up rate hikes
“As I mentioned, the latest economic data have come in stronger than expected, which suggests that the ultimate level of interest rates is likely to be higher than previously anticipated,” Powell told the Senate banking committee in prepared testimony.

He added, “If the totality of the data were to indicate that faster tightening is warranted, we would be prepared to increase the pace of rate hikes.”

Once a peak rate is reached, he said, the Fed will likely “maintain a restrictive stance of monetary policy for some time,” signaling that rate cuts aren’t likely this year even if the economy weakens as expected.
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bradman
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Re: Ukraine

Post by bradman »

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-cautions- ... 35948.html
Russia cautions regional allies against aligning with the United States
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia on Friday cautioned allies across the former Soviet Union of the perils of aligning with the United States after what Moscow said was a Western-backed coup attempt in Georgia similar to the Ukrainian "Maidan" revolution of 2014.

Russia, tied down in the deadliest conflict in Europe since World War Two, has seen its authority challenged by a number of neighbours and traditional allies since President Vladimir Putin sent troops into Ukraine in February last year.

In Tbilisi, thousands of Georgians took to the streets over three consecutive nights to protest against what they said was a Russian-inspired "foreign agents" law that threatened to derail the country's bid for closer ties with Europe.

"It is very similar to the Kyiv Maidan," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told state television, referring to the 2014 Maidan revolution which toppled a pro-Russian president in Ukraine.

"It seems to me that all the countries located around the Russian Federation should draw their own conclusions about how dangerous it is to take a path towards engagement with the United States' zone of responsibility, its zone of interests."

The remarks from Putin's top diplomat indicate the level of nervousness in Moscow over the weakening of its authority everywhere from Armenia and Azerbaijan in the South Caucasus to Kazakhstan and Tajikistan in Central Asia.
Aligning with the United States. You're both right and wrong Minister Lavrov. Yes, it's like the Maidan revolution. No, it's not aligning with the United States. As with the Maidan uprising it's all about closer ties to Western Europe and the E.U., not the U.S.. Perhaps, just maybe, if Russia would have had something better to offer for the last 100 years you wouldn't have this problem.
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

This is about being invested in long term sausage grinding war against peoples limbs and loved ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_j74puhpK0
Arms manufacturers struggle to supply Ukraine with enough ammunition

Since the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion, the U.S. and its allies have supplied Ukraine with tens of billions of dollars of weapons systems and ammunition. But keeping the material flowing for this bruising war is proving a challenge for arms manufacturers. Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment William LaPlante joins Nick Schifrin to discuss.
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Drak »

DeSantis once supported Ukraine, when Obama was president.

Now he he doesn’t, and calls the invasion a territorial dispute. I guess in his mind, the Nazi invasion of WW2 was a territorial dispute.


—————-
No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen @NoLieWithBTC

17h
In 2015, Ron DeSantis attacked Obama for not giving enough weapons to Ukraine.

In 2018, DeSantis received $50,000 from Russian oligarch Andrei Muraviev.

In 2022, DeSantis’ top spokeswoman belatedly registered as a foreign agent.

Now, he’s siding with Russia against Ukraine.
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Are the same that burn crosses"

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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

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ZoWie
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ZoWie »

Who needs DeSatan, Ukraine could get us all killed in 15 minutes. Russia attacked one of our drones over the Black Sea, and it crashed in the water. Everyone's mad at everyone else.

It's so obvious that the problem is Putin, and has been for years, and that much of the problem with Putin is class related and deeper than his just being in power for too long and starting to lose it.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

ZoWie wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:24 am Who needs DeSatan, Ukraine could get us all killed in 15 minutes. Russia attacked one of our drones over the Black Sea, and it crashed in the water. Everyone's mad at everyone else.

It's so obvious that the problem is Putin, and has been for years, and that much of the problem with Putin is class related and deeper than his just being in power for too long and starting to lose it.
It is putin but also.... Not just putin. Its how people are oriented to war and inequality and power. Its his delusions but also our own. plus the combination.
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ZoWie
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ZoWie »

War did seem to have something of a rehabilitation after Ray Gun made it patriotic and goober bush made it the cornerstone of foreign policy. We do seem to have a fundamental failure in our underlying political assumptions here.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Libertas
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:24 am Who needs DeSatan, Ukraine could get us all killed in 15 minutes. Russia attacked one of our drones over the Black Sea, and it crashed in the water. Everyone's mad at everyone else.

It's so obvious that the problem is Putin, and has been for years, and that much of the problem with Putin is class related and deeper than his just being in power for too long and starting to lose it.
Cons here say Biden is the problem.
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ZoWie
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ZoWie »

Democrats also figure in the rehabilitation of war post WWII and the UN and all that, but mostly that's due to their failed Vietnam policy and a couple of other neoliberal misperceptions at the time. However, that was so long ago that it's barely relevant any more.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

If only our leadership could see past itself and its own self-serving tendencies. It could have lead the way to peace and end to this violent war, all these killings and terror, and amputations.


White House: China should include Ukraine president Zelenskyy in war talks with Russia, Putin
.....“It would be a classic part of the China playbook to go into a meeting like this, come out of it saying `Look, we’re the ones calling for an end to the fighting and nobody else is,’” Kirby said.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww13NhR1Uy4
Jeremy Scahill on Growing Proxy War Between U.S. and Russia & Downing of U.S. Drone in Black Sea
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gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

Motor City wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:32 am If only our leadership could see past itself and its own self-serving tendencies. It could have lead the way to peace and end to this violent war, all these killings and terror, and amputations.


White House: China should include Ukraine president Zelenskyy in war talks with Russia, Putin



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww13NhR1Uy4
Y'know, WE didn't start this war. Putin did. He's the ONLY one that can stop it. Or do you want us to let him have Ukraine? Should we tell them to stop fighting?
Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

gounion wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:34 am
Y'know, WE didn't start this war. Putin did. He's the ONLY one that can stop it. Or do you want us to let him have Ukraine? Should we tell them to stop fighting?
I dont think the United States cares anything about Ukrainians at all except to use this war to achieve self serving and selfish goals. The American people care but there is really no correlation between what the American people want and how the United States is behaving here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SGTRjrROVI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzLqs3mM-dI
Julian Assange's Father & Brother Speak Out on His Jailing, Press Freedom & New Documentary "Ithaka"

We continue our coverage of the 20th anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq by looking at the imprisonment of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who has been jailed for exposing U.S. war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan.

One video released by WikiLeaks showed a U.S. helicopter gunship in Baghdad slaughtering a dozen civilians, including a Reuters journalist. Assange has been held in London's Belmarsh prison since 2019 as he fights the U.S. campaign to extradite him to face espionage charges. If convicted, the publisher faces as much as 175 years behind bars.

His legal fight is documented in the new film Ithaka that centers on Assange's father John Shipton, who has been crisscrossing the globe to raise awareness of the case and the danger it poses to press freedoms. We speak with Shipton, as well as filmmaker Gabriel Shipton, Julian Assange's brother and a producer of the documentary.
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gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

Motor City wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:28 pm I dont think the United States cares anything about Ukrainians at all except to use this war to achieve self serving and selfish goals. The American people care but there is really no correlation between what the American people want and how the United States is behaving here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SGTRjrROVI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzLqs3mM-dI
So we need to do what Trump and DeSantis wants to do - stop all support of Ukraine and let Russia have it. Is that what you're saying?
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Drak »

Motor City wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:28 pm I dont think the United States cares anything about Ukrainians at all except to use this war to achieve self serving and selfish goals. The American people care but there is really no correlation between what the American people want and how the United States is behaving here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SGTRjrROVI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzLqs3mM-dI
Bullshit. This is pure Kremlin talk. Russia invaded a sovereign democracy and is threatening the rest of Europe and our allies. They are committing serious war crimes and genocide. I never knew we've have our own horseshoe on this very board, but here we are. And Julian Assange isn't the press, he's not a publisher. He's not a journalist. He's an RU asset and a traitor. Wikileaks is hosted straight out of Moscow. Same with Edward Snowden. Keep those hits coming.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

Drak wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:57 pm Bullshit. This is pure Kremlin talk. Russia invaded a sovereign democracy and is threatening the rest of Europe and our allies. They are committing serious war crimes and genocide. I never knew we've have our own horseshoe on this very board, but here we are. And Julian Assange isn't the press, he's not a publisher. He's not a journalist. He's an RU asset and a traitor. Wikileaks is hosted straight out of Moscow. Same with Edward Snowden. Keep those hits coming.
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Drak »

You’re pushing straight up Kremlin talking points here, and have been for some time. You must be proud.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

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gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

Pacifists have always been subject to manipulation by enemies of our nation, and of freedom.
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