Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

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gounion
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by gounion »

carmenjonze wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 10:35 am Susan Collins is a classic MLK white moderate. She can’t be trusted any more than the rest of these confederates.
Of course. But it’s fun to watch her pretend she gives a shit.
gounion
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by gounion »

carmenjonze wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 10:32 am All contraception, really. That’s what Griswold was about.
Very true. When they bitch about Griswold, one needs to understand they are against even married couples have ANY form of contraception, including rubbers! They want ALL contraception banned completely.
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by ZoWie »

Look, undoing Roe was always the plan. Banning contraception was always the plan. Restoring the missionary-position man-woman repopulate-the-Earth version of sexuality was always the plan. Basically, restoring an eighteenth century European aristocratic concept of "Christian" sexuality that was reactionary even then was always the plan.

It's been the plan for decades. Practically since the Roe v. Wade decision first came down. The proponents looked us right in the face and told us that it was the plan. They didn't lie, for a change. They had an agenda, and they were going to work for it until it came to pass. They told the people that, right up front, no lies, no fancy words, no legalisms. The plan was clear and simple.

The people went about their lives and did nothing, so the plan succeeded.

It's the biggest legal disaster in this country since Dred Scott, and anyone with one eye open knew it was a done deal the day McConnell played games with the Senate rules to see to it that a prospective Republican president would get to pick three justices when an outgoing Democratic president should have picked one of them. They were never concealing their intent to undo Roe. Never. Not for a second. They looked us right in our faces and said that was their intent. Not enough voters got mad, and they succeeded. It took 50 years, but succeed they did, and everyone knew it was coming.

Heres why it happened: apathy. Americans didn't care enough about a clear and present danger in their own political process to participate enough to do anything about it. It was more important to make money and buy shit than it was to have a free country.

The options are as stark and unsettling as anything has ever been in this country, and that's saying a lot in a country that had a civil war over a number of economic issues that essentially reduced to the "right" for states to allow humans to be bought and sold as slaves based on their race. That's pretty friggin stark. Too many people can stay apathetic and let the current ultra-reactionary version of the Republican Party dismantle everything that ever worked about America, or they can participate in the process that restores representative government.

The solution is a lot simpler than solutions usually are in this country. We don't need thousands of people occupying the streets of Washington until someone listens. We don't need a civil war. We just need the majority to fucking vote.

Someone reading this probably sat out the election between drumpf and Hillary, or then decided that the country was too corrupt for political participation to matter. Now the rule of law is gone. The bedrock legal doctrine of Stare Decisis is gone. How much simpler does it have to get before you wake up and help the majority decide the future?
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Drak
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by Drak »

Hugo Lowell @hugolowell - Verified
·
16m
Just a reminder that Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh had described Roe v Wade “settled as precedent” in his Senate confirmation hearing, while Justice Neil Gorsuch said it was “settled law” during his hearing.
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by Drak »

Interesting thread theorizing who leaked this and why. Apologies for the long string.

https://twitter.com/akapczynski/status/ ... 3877962754

Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
I clerked at the Supreme Court. Last night, I assumed a liberal clerk leaked the draft opinion overturning Roe. Now I think MUCH more likely it was leaked by a conservative fanatically committed to every word of Alito’s monstrous opinion. **🧵**


Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
2h
Replying to
@akapczynski
Timing: This draft was circulated in Feb. If a liberal was mad about it, why wait until April to send it to Politico? The op will be out in June. What are the benefits of releasing it early? And a BIG downside – the focus on the leak itself instead of the opinion.

Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
·
2h
If you work inside the Court, you know that the most concrete impact of the leak is to lock in this opinion essentially as is. Any edits at this point reveal jockeying between Justices, undermine the majority, and Court itself. Embarassing to the majority.


Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
·
2h
Liberals have lived for years trying to eke out a sentence here or there in SCOTUS opinions to make these conservative decisions less terrible. Why leak something and undermine that whole strategy?


Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
·
2h
Far and away most likely impact of the leaked draft is that it locks in 5 votes for this opinion, essentially without edits. Who would want that? So: This is about as extreme an opinion as you can have overturning Roe.


Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
·
2h
It talks about fetuses being people as a matter of ancient law (teeing up idea that fetuses are constitutionally PROTECTED – no abortion anywhere as matter of conlaw.) And its arguments undermine all of SCOTUS’s gay rights and contraception decisions.


Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
·
2h
Back to timing. Draft majorities circulate first, and then concurrences and dissents. So this is about the right timing for concurrences to come out. I think best bet is that Chief Justice Roberts circulated one recently, adopting a more moderate position.

Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
·
2h
Maybe Roberts says abortions ok in some time frame, preserving exceptions for the life of the woman, etc. And Kavanaugh is tempted by it – maybe not enough to vote for it, but enough to demand some changes to the Alito opinion.

Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
·
2h
Now let’s talk psychology of SCt clerks. The kinds of liberal students who end up at the Court are not an activist bunch. They are enormously risk averse and rule-abiding. Hard to see how one of them blows their career out of the water in this way (for what benefit?).

Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
·
2h
Leaking is much more of the style of conservatives right now. Think about what Justice Thomas is doing as a model for a clerk here – making a mockery of the Court’s recusal rules re. his wife’s role in the Jan 6 coup attempts.

Amy Kapczynski
@akapczynski
·
2h
Conservatives have shown that they are willing to break the public trust in the Court to get their way.

If you want the liberal view, read Justice Breyer's recent book - LITERALLY CALLED "the peril of politics."

hup.harvard.edu
The Authority of the Court and the Peril of Politics — Stephen Breyer | Harvard University Press
Americans increasingly believe the Supreme Court is a political body in disguise. But Justice Stephen Breyer disagrees. Arguing that judges are committed to their oath to do impartial justice, Breyer...

Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
·
2h
Conservatives also know that the leak will be blamed on the left, distracting from how devastating the reversal of Roe will be to the credibility of the Court. The career consequences of someone found out are far smaller on right than left, too, I’d wager.

Amy Kapczynski @akapczynski
·
2h
This is in NO WAY the most important story here. Alito's opinion is horrific, and we have failed the young people of this country yet again. It's a devastating moment. Much more to say about that, soon.


Amy Kapczynski
@akapczynski
·
2h
But I'm with
@steve_vladeck
and
@joeyfishkin
about what likely happened here. (Though I think done by a clerk, not a Justice). Occam's razor. It just makes sense.

Nancy: 🇺🇦 #StandWithUkriane. Voting Rights & BBB
@BowmanNancy
·
1h
Replying to
@akapczynski
Yes. I think
@caslernoel
makes a good point here
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NoelCaslerComedy
@caslernoel
· 1h
Do you think it’s an accident that MTG spoke of Satan whispering in women’s ears about abortion right before SCOTUS draft was leaked? She’s the mouthpiece of the GOP now and an effective tool for their radical base. @RepMTG
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ZoWie
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by ZoWie »

Agreed that the leak was probably part of the plan.

It locks positions in.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by carmenjonze »

ZoWie wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 11:02 am They were never concealing their intent to undo Roe. Never. Not for a second.
+++++
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by ZoWie »

carmenjonze wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 12:09 pm+++++
Thanks.

I don't have all day to find cites, but they're out there. The anti-Roe movement came right out and said it. Just because their carefully vetted justice candidates waffled in a Congressional hearing doesn't mean they weren't on record other places.

The phrase "ideological litmus test" comes up frequently.
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Drak
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by Drak »

April Wolfe @AWolfeful - Verified
I feel like I’m losing my mind when analysts and pundits say this leak has ruined the legitimacy of the court when one Justice tried to rape a girl, another is in a literal cult, and yet another harassed women and then helped his wife plan a coup. Like what are we doing here?

https://twitter.com/AWolfeful/status/15 ... 4932024325



+++++
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 10:43 am Very true. When they bitch about Griswold, one needs to understand they are against even married couples have ANY form of contraception, including rubbers! They want ALL contraception banned completely.
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ZoWie
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by ZoWie »

> legitimacy of the court

It's perfectly legitimate. It's not the first time that it's had some justices who just shouldn't be there by any reasonable standards. This happens when ideology gets in the way of the law, and trumps (pun intended) the usual expectations of personal character for anyone in such a powerful position. It's happened before, and it'll happen again.

It's a major embarrassment, or at least should be. A properly functioning body politic would have been screaming for impeachment of at least a couple of justices for years now.

Congress has fallen down on the job of keeping the court honest. They confirm justice candidates, and they can impeach sitting justices. They claim to be guided by standards of personal integrity, but the general lack thereof in most of the ones annointed by the Republican Party/Federalist Society axis suggests to anyone with a functioning neuron or two that what really matters is ideological conformance to a minority religious doctrine dating to the same period in which nonconforming women stood a good chance of being burned alive as witches.

This should be no surprise, since the same power center that fouled the court has also stocked the Senate with a pretty sad bunch. It got away with it because the general public hasn't cared enough about its government and whether it functions at all, let alone in the public interest. It's almost a doctrine that the best Senate is a Senate that does nothing except trim budgets and kill everything coming out of the House. The matter of the filibuster, for example, should never have gotten this extreme. The constitution does not mandate a majority vote to pass legislation, only a plurality, but a majority is what we've let it become.

It seems obvious to me that a good portion of the public wanted the least government possible, and as long as the economy functioned that was enough. Careful what you wish for.

In other words, an apathetic population has gotten the court that it deserves, and now many of them will wonder what the fk just happened. Their apathy is what happened. When the good are apathetic, the bad prevail. They're always in there fighting, raising money, and buying news stories. We're not.

Therefore, we usually lose.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
Bludogdem
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by Bludogdem »

ProfX wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 9:59 am There was no need to pass a federal law protecting abortion rights until people started seeing some tea leaves about Roe being overturned, which is why they first attempted to pass that bill in 2021.

I don't think the Dems need much to fear about backlash.

Worth looking at these polls. Most Americans support some abortions, and Roe.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurk ... bb5f417ac1

P.S. I hate this kind of reasoning, and am not invoking it myself, but if Roe is overturned, congrats, you have just handed Dems a MASSIVE issue for the midterms. That said - no - however politically advantageous it might be, I'm hoping they don't do it.

The chaos it will unleash throughout the country is not worth it.
This could flip state government legislative control.
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by ProfX »

Image

BTW: it's pretty good there's no Wall, as in some of those states, now, the closest abortion clinics might be in Mexico.
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by ZoWie »

California's tourist business could use a boost.
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Drak
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by Drak »

Of course, part of the plan with these dystopian policies and laws is to drive blue voters out of these states. Especially the ones that are purple or turning blue.
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by Drak »

ZoWie wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 11:40 am Agreed that the leak was probably part of the plan.

It locks positions in.
Yep. And given this story is almost a day old and was immediately followed by a coordinated effort by right wing media and politicians to make it about the leak, I think it’s obvious who leaked it. The story isn’t the leak.
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by Glennfs »

This is a victory for liberals.
The dumbass hardline conservatives are going to hand our government to the socialist who run the democratic party.

I hope they treat me kind at the reeducation camp. Biden is already setting up the ministry of truth

Sad day for our country
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 4:51 pm This is a victory for liberals.
The dumbass hardline conservatives are going to hand our government to the socialist who run the democratic party.

I hope they treat me kind at the reeducation camp. Biden is already setting up the ministry of truth

Sad day for our country
look this has been planned for 50 years by your side. Do you think they would stack the Court and NOT do it?

And we don’t do camps. That’s Purim’s thang. You know, the right wing hero.
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by Drak »

What a batshit loony tune crazy statement by the board extremist. Re education camps? Back to calling liberals commies again I see. That and the projection. The entire Republican Party are hardcore extremists.

Also not sure what the con is sad about, when this is what he votes for.
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 4:51 pm This is a victory for liberals.
No, it isn't.

Overturning Roe is a victory only for big-government, nanny state misogynistic conservatives.

Which is why you support it.
The dumbass hardline conservatives
You are the dumbass hardline conservative.

Look what you vote for, look at the extremists you admire.

LMAO you actually believe the 1860s propaganda that slavedriver Robert E. Lee was "a great man." viewtopic.php?p=23487#p23487 :problem:
are going to hand our government to the socialist who run the democratic party.
No "socialist" has ever run anything in this country, ever. Nor does any "socialist" now.

Only in the mind of a paranoiac confederate, still stuck in the pre-Roe, pre-Civil Rights, Cold War era is commiebaiting still fashionable.
I hope they treat me kind at the reeducation camp. Biden is already setting up the ministry of truth

Sad day for our country
Self-absorbed, frightened, authoritarian conservative extremists like you, who use your vote like a baseball bat, are gloating about overturning abortion rights nationwide. And yet you think you're the victim.

:? okay.
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by carmenjonze »

Drak wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 5:40 pm What a batshit loony tune crazy statement by the board extremist. Re education camps? Back to calling liberals commies again I see. That and the projection. The entire Republican Party are hardcore extremists.

Also not sure what the con is sad about, when this is what he votes for.
Conservatives like Glennfs are such vile sociopaths, people being forced by the government to bear the products of rape and incest is a big joke, to them.
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Drak
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by Drak »

carmenjonze wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 5:48 pm Conservatives like Glennfs are such vile sociopaths, people being forced by the government to bear the products of rape and incest is a big joke, to them.
Yep.

And the comment he made is that of an utter fool and clown; who will never be taken seriously on these forums. It’s just embarrassing.
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by carmenjonze »

Forced-childbirth conservatives like Glennfs are domestic-terrorist enablers, and not just the ones on Jan. 6th.

This one acts like this history -- which took place in his own misery-inflicting lifetime -- is something to joke about.

Meanwhile, they seek to overturn all civil rights legislation of the past 70 years.
__________

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@GumbyAnne

When I worked at Planned Parenthood, I had to open the mail in an airtight room so that if one of the envelopes contained anthrax I'd be the only person to die

A terrorist drove his truck into the front door of the Planned Parenthood while I was working there

While I was working at Planned Parenthood, abortion provider George Tiller was murdered

The entire list of anti-abortion terrorist acts is extremely long, so I'm just listing the ones that impacted me directly

https://twitter.com/GumbyAnne/status/15 ... 9452718082
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by Drak »

Brynn Tannehill @BrynnTannehill
I'm telling you now how this is going to go down:

About a week after the decision to overturn Roe is released, AG Paxton in TX will release an opinion that TX is not bound by Obergefell. 1/n

There's likely to be some language about determining legality of marriages based on sex listed on original, un-amended birth certificates.

State courts will affirm legality of Abbott's actions in light of Jackson's Women's Health decision. 3/n

Brynn Tannehill @BrynnTannehill
9h
They'll probably win at the District Court level. Regardless, it will get appealed to the 5th Circuit, where Abbott will win, 100% guaranteed. Whereupon it ends up in front of SCOTUS, which has already signaled they regard Obergefell as being on unconstitutional grounds. 4/n


Brynn Tannehill @BrynnTannehill
9h
We will see Obergefell die in 2024. The Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) has been planning this ever since it became apparent that Roe v. Wade was going down. Most conservative state AGs have relationships with the organization. 5/n


Brynn Tannehill @BrynnTannehill
9h
I have specific intel that this is the plan for how to expedite the destruction of Obergefell starting in early to mid-July. The official release of the decision starts the clock ticking.

It is unknown when they will begin targeting Lawrence.

Cassandra has spoken. 6/n
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Re: Draft: SC Vote to Overturn Roe

Post by carmenjonze »

Drak wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 6:00 pm Brynn Tannehill @BrynnTannehill
I'm telling you now how this is going to go down:

About a week after the decision to overturn Roe is released, AG Paxton in TX will release an opinion that TX is not bound by Obergefell. 1/n

There's likely to be some language about determining legality of marriages based on sex listed on original, un-amended birth certificates.

State courts will affirm legality of Abbott's actions in light of Jackson's Women's Health decision. 3/n

Brynn Tannehill @BrynnTannehill
9h
They'll probably win at the District Court level. Regardless, it will get appealed to the 5th Circuit, where Abbott will win, 100% guaranteed. Whereupon it ends up in front of SCOTUS, which has already signaled they regard Obergefell as being on unconstitutional grounds. 4/n


Brynn Tannehill @BrynnTannehill
9h
We will see Obergefell die in 2024. The Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) has been planning this ever since it became apparent that Roe v. Wade was going down. Most conservative state AGs have relationships with the organization. 5/n


Brynn Tannehill @BrynnTannehill
9h
I have specific intel that this is the plan for how to expedite the destruction of Obergefell starting in early to mid-July. The official release of the decision starts the clock ticking.

It is unknown when they will begin targeting Lawrence.

Cassandra has spoken. 6/n
Vincent Evans
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Is Brown v. Board of Education settled law in America?

https://twitter.com/VinceEvans/status/1 ... 6543199233
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~ Ida B. Wells
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