Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

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gounion
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:52 pm Is that your opinion or the opinion of groups like the AMA.
If it is the latter then the surgery should be covered
From the horse's mouth:
Transgender patients often face discriminatory hurdles in accessing medically necessary health care services that affirm gender or treat gender dysphoria. As a population, transgender individuals are less likely to be insured than both the lesbian, gay, bisexual and general population. Among those that are insured, a national survey found that 25 percent of transgender individuals who sought coverage for hormones in the past year were denied and 55 percent of those who sought coverage for transition-related surgery in the past year were denied.

Improving access to gender-affirming care is an important means of improving health outcomes for the transgender population. Receipt of gender-affirming care has been linked to dramatically reduced rates of suicide attempts, decreased rates of depression and anxiety, decreased substance use, improved HIV medication adherence and reduced rates of harmful self-prescribed hormone use.

The AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender dysphoria and opposes the denial of health insurance based on sexual orientation or gender identity.
Of course, you'll find a way to argue with this. And one thing you'll never learn is that Carmen always seems to have actual facts at hand, and she knows what she's talking about.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:52 pm Is that your opinion
It is not some personal opinion that transgender care is unrelated to "plastic surgery."

It's your personal opinion that it is, but that's only because you're ignorant, bigoted, and uninformed, entitled, and you think your mere opinion should get in the way of individuals, families, and their providers.

You have an opportunity to change that condition.
or the opinion of groups like the AMA.
Hey aren't you the run-to-Google expert around here, ready with the lessons for us dunces?

Find out for yourself, and stop asking me idiotic questions about the basics of this topic. JHC.
If it is the latter then the surgery should be covered
Nobody needs the buy-in or permission of ignorant, arrogant, big-government authoritarian conservatives to get they medical care they need.

Transgender care is not limited to just "surgery," that's your stupid, voyeuristic, rightwing stereotypes at work.

Oh, and by the way...last sentence... viewtopic.php?p=27558#p27558

Please learn something about transgender rights and transgender matters before trying to comment.
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Libertas
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by Libertas »

Con who can barely operate a computer lecturing an expert who also has an IQ triple his.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

Libertas wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:11 pm Con who can barely operate a computer lecturing an expert who also has an IQ triple his.
Con claims he “agrees” with me on everything re: transgender rights except “sports participation”; con has NO CLUE about this subject, much less what I personally think about it.

Closed-minded, rigidly ignorant DeSantis voters trying to pass themselves off as moderates…moderates are just cons, anyway. :problem:
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Glennfs
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by Glennfs »

Libertas wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:11 pm Con who can barely operate a computer lecturing an expert who also has an IQ triple his.
You are correct I can barely operate a computer. The reason being when PCs were new I was driving 3250 miles a week. Driving 4 days a week. Then when home spending all my free time with my kids.

So while all of you were learning the ins and outs of computers I was busy doing something more important

As for IQ you mistake IQ with education. But I am fairly sure CJ would out score me but not by much
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:01 pm You are correct I can barely operate a computer. The reason being when PCs were new I was driving 3250 miles a week. Driving 4 days a week. Then when home spending all my free time with my kids.

So while all of you were learning the ins and outs of computers I was busy doing something more important

As for IQ you mistake IQ with education. But I am fairly sure CJ would out score me but not by much
CJ isn't interested in measuring intelligence and doesn't even believe in IQ.

I don't need a number to tell me about your low levels of education. Everything you post, especially on these topics, tells on you.

The travesty is that you don't have to stay stuck in these conditions. All it takes is a trip to Khan Academy or Udemy or EdX or Coursera or LinkedIn Learning or or or or.

You choose to stay stuck in your ignorance.
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Glennfs
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:28 pm CJ isn't interested in measuring intelligence and doesn't even believe in IQ.

I don't need a number to tell me about your low levels of education. Everything you post, especially on these topics, tells on you.

The travesty is that you don't have to stay stuck in these conditions. All it takes is a trip to Khan Academy or Udemy or EdX or Coursera or LinkedIn Learning or or or or.

You choose to stay stuck in your ignorance.
I am 64 years old and work over 60 hours a week.
When I am not working I have my grandson or am hanging out with friends. Or a combination of the two.
Tell you what I did though. I made sure my children were well educated and especially strong in the areas where I am weak.
Now education does not equate to intelligence or the ability to access a situation or form an opinion.
Finally I think back to my grandfather who was born in 1867 and died in 1964.
They only went to school about 7 months a year. One room school went through the 6th grade. About 42 months total.
He was a farmer and knew
How big a garden to plant in order to feed his family over 10 kids
How much hay and corn to harvest to feed the livestock over the winter
How much corn to plant to make enough money to support his family
How to preserve meat and vegetables with no electricity or refrigeration
How much fire wood to put up to heat his home and provide enough for cooking
How to plant fertilize and produce a crop

At the end of the day those old dirt farmers were far wiser and probably smarter than you and I combined
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:49 pmNow education does not equate to intelligence or the ability to access a situation or form an opinion.
Nor have I ever said nor suggested it does. Some of the dirtiest, dumbest, most viciously discriminatory conservative whites are and were Ivy Leaguers. The leader of your party and all these virulent white cons you vote for and support are really great examples.

But don't try to change the subject from YOUR deliberate lack of education about LGBTQ and transgender rights with more blather about your family. Doesn't interest me, and it's a very transparent way of avoiding that you very clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Doesn't stop you from asserting your precious cis male heterosexual conservative "opinions" as fact, though, I see.

But you're in luck because there are direct remedies for your state of entitled, supremacist ignorance. Learn about the subject of LGBTQ and transgender rights before trying to comment on it.

Your cis-, male-, heterosexual-, and conservative-superiority issues are a barrier to your learning. They don't have to be, you allow them to be.

And don't get your undies in a bunch because those of us with educations and knowledge about these topics point up your cherished, uninformed "opinions."

Get used to it. Learn to love it.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:01 pm So while all of you were learning the ins and outs of computers I was busy doing something more important
:?

Don't let your inadequacy and irrelevance problems distract you from the topic, which is your displayed ignorance about transgender issues, and how the people, ideologies, and policies you support oppress trans people along with so many others.

This isn't some competition about what's more or less important in life, nor a competition you can win. Learn about trans issues before trying to comment on them. THEN comment. Otherwise, don't get mad when those of us who know what we're talking about correct you.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:49 pm I am 64 years old and work over 60 hours a week.
:? so what?

There are LGBTQ people who are 64 and older and also work 60 hours a week and more. What's that got to do with anything? :?

Unlike them, you've never had to endure and spend your personal time overturning centuries of these dirty conservative anti-LGBTQ ideologies you're so eager to vote back into policy and law.

So what's age and number of hours you work per week supposed to prove?
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

This is how dishonest conservatives like Glennfs are with themselves: he claims he and I merely "disagree" about "sports," when in fact they're completely ignorant about the entire field of transgender rights, transngender histories, and anti-transgender policies the entire LGBTQ community faces on a daily basis.

They also enthusiastically support the most extreme anti-LGBTQ lawmakers in the country, such as Lindsey Graham and Ron DeSantis, then in some pointless effort to portray themselves as more moderate than they are, they impose themselves on us by claiming to be supportive of gay marriage or gay rights or whatever.

All while being ignorant as hell about this entire subject.

Such dishonest people.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:52 pm From the horse's mouth:



Of course, you'll find a way to argue with this. And one thing you'll never learn is that Carmen always seems to have actual facts at hand, and she knows what she's talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpGtBnVZLSk - Crickets.
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Glennfs
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:00 am This is how dishonest conservatives like Glennfs are with themselves: he claims he and I merely "disagree" about "sports," when in fact they're completely ignorant about the entire field of transgender rights, transngender histories, and anti-transgender policies the entire LGBTQ community faces on a daily basis.

They also enthusiastically support the most extreme anti-LGBTQ lawmakers in the country, such as Lindsey Graham and Ron DeSantis, then in some pointless effort to portray themselves as more moderate than they are, they impose themselves on us by claiming to be supportive of gay marriage or gay rights or whatever.

All while being ignorant as hell about this entire subject.

Such dishonest people.
There are certain things we are going to disagree about, sports and what age is appropriate to introduce or discuss adult issues with children.
I am sure there are others here who also disagree with some of your views on LGBTQ but don't have the intestinal fortitude to openly say anything.
However on the important things we do agree. Marriage live and let live things of every day living. Now that my mom's generation has pretty much left the scene we even agree about the bathroom issue.

So instead of focusing on that in which we differ society imo would be much better off if people would unite on those issues that they agree on.
Otherwise it becomes a fuck you no fuck you fest of division among people who aren't that far apart.
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Motor City
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by Motor City »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:49 pm I am 64 years old and work over 60 hours a week.
When I am not working I have my grandson or am hanging out with friends. Or a combination of the two.
Tell you what I did though. I made sure my children were well educated and especially strong in the areas where I am weak.
Now education does not equate to intelligence or the ability to access a situation or form an opinion.
Finally I think back to my grandfather who was born in 1867 and died in 1964.
They only went to school about 7 months a year. One room school went through the 6th grade. About 42 months total.
He was a farmer and knew
How big a garden to plant in order to feed his family over 10 kids
How much hay and corn to harvest to feed the livestock over the winter
How much corn to plant to make enough money to support his family
How to preserve meat and vegetables with no electricity or refrigeration
How much fire wood to put up to heat his home and provide enough for cooking
How to plant fertilize and produce a crop

At the end of the day those old dirt farmers were far wiser and probably smarter than you and I combined
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E_fT0aTsjI
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs supports this man and simultaneously calls himself pro-gay marriage or supportive of trans rights except for sports, or whatever. :problem:

DeSantis weighs ordering child protective services to investigate parents who take kids to drag shows - NBC News

#smallerlimitedgovernment
#lighterleanernimblerfootprint
#prolife
#profamily
#procovid
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The way to right wrongs is to
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~ Ida B. Wells
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Glennfs
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:22 am Glennfs supports this man and simultaneously calls himself pro-gay marriage or supportive of trans rights except for sports, or whatever. :problem:

DeSantis weighs ordering child protective services to investigate parents who take kids to drag shows - NBC News

#smallerlimitedgovernment
#lighterleanernimblerfootprint
#prolife
#profamily
#procovid

Yes I do because I played sports albeit not very well and know that I below average athlete like myself would have dominated most girls sports.
Look at the body of the Penn swimmer. That is the body of s man not a woman. I have friends from high school who currently have kids playing college sports. The two who are female are doing ok. But, would get destroyed by an average formerly male athlete.
The one who plays division 1 basketball is the 3rd guy off the bench. On any women's team he would score 50 a night.
Is it fair to leave transgender people off teams, no it isn't. But, it is also not fair to allow them to compete either.
So it comes down to which group do you choose to be unfair to.
One of us is wrong on this issue. In about a decade as more people transition we will find out which it is
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:20 am There are certain things we are going to disagree about, sports and what age is appropriate to introduce or discuss adult issues with children.
I am sure there are others here who also disagree with some of your views on LGBTQ but don't have the intestinal fortitude to openly say anything.
Speculation.

I'm not looking for "agreement" with you on ANY subject, starting with these subjects.
However on the important things we do agree. Marriage live and let live things of every day living. Now that my mom's generation has pretty much left the scene we even agree about the bathroom issue.
Your mother's generation is my mother's and father's generation.

But you kid yourself that these are merely generational attitudes. The GOP has never let up in its legal and political assaults on LGBTQ people. Not for a minute. There are millennials and GenZ conservatives who are running on these same anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ platforms.

Your own attitudes and voting habits are based in the same anti-transgender ideology as your party's bathroom bills, anti-CRT bills, and the latest spate of anti-LGBTQ bills.

So you're lying to yourself when you claim to not support these bills anymore, because you support the most extremist legislation and lawmakers in the country based on the same trans-girls-in-the-restroom ideology.

You also refuse to learn about these subjects, yet think your uninformed opinions should impede other people's medical decisions.

Can't get any more supremacist than that.
So instead of focusing on that in which we differ society imo would be much better off if people would unite on those issues that they agree on.
This is what you sound like.

Image
Otherwise it becomes a fuck you no fuck you fest of division among people who aren't that far apart.
Don't get distracted.

Learn something about the subject of LGBTQ and specifically transgender rights before commenting.

It's counterintuitive to "unite" with people who are actively trying to force us back into second-class citizenship, so I'm not uniting in jack sh#t with you.

Besides, this is more of your white- and conservative-supremacism talking, the very presumption that a person you're intent on second-classing must "unite" with you on anything.

Otherwise, look for the anti-trans propaganda you peddle on this board to be countered and corrected.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:33 am Yes I do because I played sports albeit not very well and know that I below average athlete like myself would have dominated most girls sports.
You're not transgender, and transgender girls are not boys or men.

You also have never played as a girl or woman on any girl's or women's teams. Never.

I have. You would have no way of knowing who is and who is not a trans girl, or an intersex girl, or any other gender, except for voyeurism and crude stereotypes. See your remark below:
Look at the body of the Penn swimmer.
Sorry, no. As a woman who played on sports teams since childhood and throughout my 20s, I'm not interested -- AT ALL -- in indulging your anti-trans voyeurism or your misogynist voyeurism.

You also seek to criminalize people seeking abortions because the idea of physical autonomy of women and girls scares the crap out of misogynists.

So you can also dump this fake concern about fairness to girls or the rights of girls, given that you're in favor of 18 year old guys having sex with 15 year olds.
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gounion
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:33 am Look at the body of the Penn swimmer.
Look at this body:

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carmenjonze
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Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:54 am Look at this body:

Image
Problem here is, both the Williams sisters have in fact had both their gender and sexuality questioned, based solely on phenotype. The outright racism against them has sometimes come from other women tennis players unable to compete with them.

Same thing happened to Martina, who is nevertheless a no-trans-girls-on-the-team TERF. I'd say I don't know what her deal is, but I understand TERFs all too well. The UK has a much worse TERF problem than the US, where we are more likely to back up our transgender colleagues, peers, siblings, and loved ones. But there is a nasty, longstanding TERF element in the US, too.

IMO it's a function of this country's and the West's eugenicist past, which put a primacy on phenotypes that look like Barbie and Ken. Don't look like Barbie? There's something morally and intellectually wrong with you; we can tell just by looking. Black women, cis or trans, get hit with this hard. But it's really just another branch of misogyny.

This is why I tell Glennfs he really needs to STFU learn about LGBTQ political matters before commenting. It's more complicated than bathrooms and sports teams and marriage. That barely even touches the surface.
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Re: Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

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Glennfs wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:33 am Yes I do because I played sports albeit not very well and know that I below average athlete like myself would have dominated most girls sports.
This seems pretty presumptuous, among other adjectives.
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Post by Drak »

And utter bullshit.

I grew up with girls that played on soccer and softball teams who could compete with the boys any day of the week. My son’s last hockey team had two girls on the team that were two of their best players.
Last edited by Drak on Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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carmenjonze
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Post by carmenjonze »

Toonces wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:18 am This seems pretty presumptuous, among other adjectives.
It's just so stupid.

We all have our anecdotes. I was a girl/woman athlete, A-league intramurals in college.

No guy with any kind of mobility disability would be able to out-run or out-play me. But that's because sports and physical ability is not tied in any way to phenotype or gender.

But guys like Glennfs are desperately clinging to the last shreds of male supremacism, and it comes out in their ideology and repeated propaganda about trans women and girls.
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Post by carmenjonze »

Eventually, people like Glennfs clinging to male-supremacism will admit that they think trans women and girls on womens' and girls' sports teams is predation and grooming. It's the same mentality behind their anti-bathroom bills and anti-transgender soldiers laws.
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Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:49 pm At the end of the day those old dirt farmers were far wiser and probably smarter than you and I combined
Save the lecture, because I don't care about your thoughts on intelligence and education. You lack the latter, and it shows.

Our fathers are two years apart. My father's father was a sharecropper from The Middle of Nowhere, Arkansas.

Your dirt-farmer grandfather, like your father, was the beneficiary of white-conservative/anti-Black laws, race-based government-forced discrimination, and white-conservative vigilante lynchmobs and mass-murdering violence.

My grandfather and father were on the receiving end of those things. Today, you support every single one of the anti-LGBTQ laws listed here, and the politicians who make them.

Legislative Tracker - Freedom For All Americans
During the 2022 legislative session dozens of states will consider LGBTQ legislation. Some bills will seek to advance the comprehensive nondiscrimination laws that LGBTQ people so sorely need, while others will almost certainly attempt to single out and target LGBTQ people for unfair and unequal treatment. Freedom for All Americans is tracking each piece of LGBTQ legislation in our Legislative Tracker, in partnership with the Equality Federation.

Below, find all 2022 legislation related to LGBTQ discrimination, including school policy bills, youth medical care bans, and youth sports bans. Navigate to individual categories below.
So, IDK how these pointless anecdotes about your grandfather are relevant to anything.
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