Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

[ProfX]

Maybe because it’s a subject that a minor child should discuss with the parent.

And no one is saying they can't discuss it with a parent, either.

I'm only saying they can also discuss it with a counselor, a therapist, family practitioner ... you know ... other professionals ... even if they work at a school. Now to be clear, I'm only saying a teacher should be able to speak to a child about their mental and physical wellbeing, and then, probably turn things over to other professionals who deal with mental health. If warranted.

After all, Joe, if the child has chicken pox or some other physical disease, you wouldn't have a problem telling them to go see the school clinic. Yah?
So, if the child tells the teacher they are deeply troubled because they don't think they are the gender everybody says they are, I would say the next thing is to get the child to a counselor better trained to handle it. Should the parent be told? Under many situations, of course. Under all? No. Should this ALWAYS require parental permission first? As I keep saying, depends on the situation.

The Taliban is the government in Afghanistan. They also believe they can insert themselves into the family dynamics of the citizens in that country. Since you are into comparisons.

Even when they were not in power, ruling over the country, they used to attack young girls for daring to attend school. You may remember the name of one - Yusuf Malala.

[carmenjonze]

Should the parent be told?

No.

A teacher or aide, school official, etc., has no way of knowing whether or not telling a parent or guardian puts the child in danger. So, no.

Should this ALWAYS require parental permission first? As I keep saying, depends on the situation.

Conservatives want these children eliminated, and the workers who protect them from conservative overreach to be fired.

On the other hand, conservative institutions and organizations are the ones with the perversion and grooming problem. People like JoeMemphis project this onto public schools so they don't have todeal with it in their own f'ed up environments and their own f'ed up families.

Even when they were not in power, ruling over the country, they used to attack young girls for daring to attend school. You may remember the name of one - Yusuf Malala.

These smaller-government, ruthless cons sure do love the idea of the government hanging vulnerable children in public schools out to dry.

They will not be satisfied until the government once again regulates interracial marriage, samesex marriage, samesex adoption, and can fire nonconformist public school employees and aides.

In true conservative Orwellian fashion, they call this protection of children, and "parent's rights," while running roughshod over non-conservative families, all while their own organizations are full of perverts and coverups.

[Libertas]

No.

A teacher or aide, school official, etc., has no way of knowing whether or not telling a parent or guardian puts the child in danger. So, no.



Conservatives want these children eliminated, and the workers who protect them from conservative overreach to be fired.

On the other hand, conservative institutions and organizations are the ones with the perversion and grooming problem. People like JoeMemphis project this onto public schools so they don't have todeal with it in their own f'ed up environments and their own f'ed up families.



These smaller-government, ruthless cons sure do love the idea of the government hanging vulnerable children in public schools out to dry.

They will not be satisfied until the government once again regulates interracial marriage, samesex marriage, samesex adoption, and can fire nonconformist public school employees and aides.

In true conservative Orwellian fashion, they call this protection of children, and "parent's rights," while running roughshod over non-conservative families, all while their own organizations are full of perverts and coverups.

Yes, cons want these kids dead and YOU dead and ME dead.

[carmenjonze]

I think most parents, the vast majority of parents, are not the equivalent of the Taliban.

Where do you get that "most parents" or "the vast majority of parents" support these Orwellian laws?

The same place that the White Citizens Councils got that "most parents"/"vast majority of parents" don't want integrated schools?

[carmenjonze]

Yes, cons want these kids dead and YOU dead and ME dead.

Forced heterosexuality, forced cisgenderism, or else.

[Libertas]

Forced heterosexuality, forced cisgenderism, or else.

Gotta see Jimmy Kimmell intro last night

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/26/media/ji ... index.html

and the Dallas affiliate cut away from his monologue about the repubs and guns

https://thehill.com/news/3502592-texas- ... cut-short/


Please some liberal buy Texas ABC affiliate and all stations owned by fascists.

[JoeMemphis]

And no one is saying they can't discuss it with a parent, either.

I'm only saying they can also discuss it with a counselor, a therapist, family practitioner ... you know ... other professionals ... even if they work at a school. Now to be clear, I'm only saying a teacher should be able to speak to a child about their mental and physical wellbeing, and then, probably turn things over to other professionals who deal with mental health. If warranted.

After all, Joe, if the child has chicken pox or some other physical disease, you wouldn't have a problem telling them to go see the school clinic. Yah?
So, if the child tells the teacher they are deeply troubled because they don't think they are the gender everybody says they are, I would say the next thing is to get the child to a counselor better trained to handle it. Should the parent be told? Under many situations, of course. Under all? No. Should this ALWAYS require parental permission first? As I keep saying, depends on the situation.



Even when they were not in power, ruling over the country, they used to attack young girls for daring to attend school. You may remember the name of one - Yusuf Malala.

If a child has chicken pox, do you send them straight to the doctor or do you contact the parent? I’m gonna bet the first call is to the parent. Then the parent takes over from there. I doubt the teacher gets involved with diagnosis and treatment and I’m guessing the parent coordinates such things with the professionals.

That’s basically the requirement under the law. Contact the parent. It isn’t up to you to treat the child. If you feel you need to cut the parent out of the loop, then there had better be a damn good reason and I’m thinking it should involve a judge and not just at the sole discretion of the teacher.

I think I would be careful when screwing with somebody else’s family. In most cases, they have that relationship for life and not for only a year or two. Screw with that relationship and you could fuck up the only support system that person may have long after the teacher has left the picture.

[carmenjonze]

It’s hilarious watching conservatives twist themselves into oblivion trying to justify their extreme hypocrisy and looking like utter clowns. They don’t stand for anything they claim they do. They are full of shit.

JoeMemphis in particular is one of these people who proves that he doesn’t think of LGBTQ parents, teachers, or students as people with equal rights, only with second-class rights.

[carmenjonze]

I think I would be careful when screwing with somebody else’s family. In most cases, they have that relationship for life and not for only a year or two. Screw with that relationship and you could fuck up the only support system that person may have long after the teacher has left the picture.

You can’t possibly believe this rhetorical swill and still support these laws.

These laws interject the government into family matters as well as First Amendment issues.

It’s not as if you guys have not already had related antigay/anti-trans laws on the books. These, too, are headed for the toilet like the rest of conservative government overreach.

It’s why NO LGBTQ group or organization supports them, and why a perverted conservative organization like the Slavery Baptist Convention does.

You do not support “gay rights,” you vote against it, and argue them down, daily. You do not support families or parents. You support only the destructive policies and laws that give special rights to straights, cisgender, and conservative whites.

[ProfX]

"They have that relationship for life".

Oh yes. Sometimes they do.



To their detriment, unfortunately.

[carmenjonze]

"They have that relationship for life".

Oh yes. Sometimes they do.

Much like they want women tied down to childbearing, they want to control what people’s families look like, and lock trans and queer kids into abusive situations with no resources and no escape.

[ProfX]

"Papers, please!"
"We, the Stasi, must know, who dared to put a book into a school library!"
"Librarians will swing from the scaffold!"

Florida orders Orange County schools to reveal who bought ‘Gender Queer’ book for libraries
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/nation-w ... 46440.html

ORLANDO, Fla. — A state investigator who looks into teacher misconduct demanded to know who in Orange County Public Schools authorized the purchase of the book “Gender Queer,” a controversial memoir the district pulled from several high school libraries in late October, according to emails between the employee and the school district.

“This office is trying to find out who approved the book,” wrote Ian Dohme, a Florida Department of Education employee, in an email to an OCPS administrator on April 13. Dohme’s request was alarming because he works for the department’s Office of Professional Practices, said Stephana Ferrell, an Orange County mother and co-founder of the Florida Freedom to Read Project, which uncovered the email.

[snip][end]

Good to know our state tax dollars go to fund an inquisitor's office.

[carmenjonze]

"Papers, please!"
"We, the Stasi, must know, who dared to put a book into a school library!"
"Librarians will swing from the scaffold!"

Florida orders Orange County schools to reveal who bought ‘Gender Queer’ book for libraries
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/nation-w ... 46440.html

ORLANDO, Fla. — A state investigator who looks into teacher misconduct demanded to know who in Orange County Public Schools authorized the purchase of the book “Gender Queer,” a controversial memoir the district pulled from several high school libraries in late October, according to emails between the employee and the school district.

“This office is trying to find out who approved the book,” wrote Ian Dohme, a Florida Department of Education employee, in an email to an OCPS administrator on April 13. Dohme’s request was alarming because he works for the department’s Office of Professional Practices, said Stephana Ferrell, an Orange County mother and co-founder of the Florida Freedom to Read Project, which uncovered the email.

[snip][end]

Good to know our state tax dollars go to fund an inquisitor's office.

Haha good luck to them, trying to get librarians to release this kind of info, ever…

[Glennfs]

You seem to keep talking about teachers as random strangers.

Yet, I just saw an interview with one of the teachers at Uvalde High School. She said one of the school parents sent a message to her & thanked her for "saving her babies". She texted back to the parent "of course I did, they're my babies too."

So my answer is - any random stranger, no. A professionally trained school counselor or teacher - yes.

BTW, I get guidance from my university on how to deal with a lot of these student situations. You keep asking if there are rules that need to be followed. There sure are, and that's even the case given that the LGBTQ students I'm dealing with are legal adults. The university makes clear to me that I have to follow them - and I do. I can't imagine that's any different - in fact I'm sure it would have to be stricter - for a 3rd grade student.

BTW2, you seem to have some hangup about this being the case only if they are the public school teacher. Personally, I think many, teachers feel this way toward their schoolchildren, regardless of what kind of school they work for.

Look, Joe, first and foremost, how about we protect these kids from bullets, rather than thoughts, topics, and knowledge? I know which is far more dangerous to them.

It seems to me that you and most other progressives believe that all teachers are qualified to discuss sexuality with children.

When in fact most are just going to espouse their personal beliefs.

I am pretty sure when one of the students asked an evangelical Christian or one of those deadly conservatives you would not agree with the advice they gave.

In today's world isn't there many places a young person can go that doesn't include public school

[ProfX]

It seems to me that you and most other progressives believe that all teachers are qualified to discuss sexuality with children.

I believe they are qualified to instruct people on topics in their classroom. I don't believe in an omertà on any topic, though I get some can be very sensitive and need to be handled very carefully. That doesn't mean "unaddressed". MHO: if a student comes to them for counseling, they should direct them to a school counselor, who is more qualified. If the student says this is something they are afraid to discuss with their parents, then no, they should not be called first. The situation needs to be assessed. Yes, that is my position. And I only speak for me, not "most other progressives".

I am pretty sure when one of the students asked an evangelical Christian or one of those deadly conservatives you would not agree with the advice they gave.

A teacher is not there to give advice on sexuality or relationships, like they are a counselor or therapist . You seem to be getting things confused. Here is my position: they are qualified to instruct on topics. Period. If a student needs counseling, they should be directed to a counselor. The parents should be notified in most cases (Ex: student is having suicidal thoughts) but as I keep saying, not all. I don't care if the teacher is an evangelical Christian or a Pastafarian: school procedure is to direct students who need counseling to counselors. I hope they follow it.

In today's world isn't there many places a young person can go that doesn't include public school

There are independent family therapists who work outside of schools. I think we used to have one on this board, but he would never seem to directly answer what he did. So: ideally, parents should see them with their children. But if the child wants to discuss something they are afraid to tell their parents, it becomes a difficult situation, and there aren't many ways a child can go see one on their own. Hence, what I said above.

BTW, it's a free country - if the family decides to see a minister or clergy instead, nothing's stopping them. I'm only talking about cases where again the child is afraid to tell the parents. Now as to what occurs next -- many states DO ban so-called "reparative therapy" and for good reason - it's pseudoscience. I do not believe there is a "cure," per se, for gender dysphoria or homosexuality, esp. as we really don't even know their exact etiology. I do believe praying over the child and exorcisms will not make them magically shift or change. No.

[carmenjonze]

I am pretty sure when one of the students asked an evangelical Christian or one of those deadly conservatives you would not agree with the advice they gave.

Hey, ignoramus.

Sixth time’s a charm: Public school teachers of every religion already know they are prohibited by Engel vs Vitale (1962) from proselytizing.

You guys want prayer back in schools but only Protestant Christian prayers. Same laws prohibits “a Muslim” or anyone else from proselytizing. So you can drop the religion canard. It’s not related, and there are already laws against it.

“An evangelical Christian” teacher knows this. Why don’t you, after at least two people saying this to you directly, several times?

In today's world isn't there many places a young person can go that doesn't include public school

what in the world are you talking about?

You obviously don’t know any children outside your f’ed up family environment, and you definitely don’t know nor have you ever known any queer or trans children.

Who would feel safe enough to tell you?

deadly conservatives

Even worse than simply “deadly.” More like historically lethal, vicious, dishonest, miserable, and state-sponsored.

This is 2022, not 1957. You’re not getting those conditions back. They’re unconstitutional.

[Glennfs]

Hey, ignoramus.

Sixth time’s a charm: Public school teachers of every religion already know they are prohibited by Engel vs Vitale (1962) from proselytizing.

You guys want prayer back in schools but only Protestant Christian prayers. Same laws prohibits “a Muslim” or anyone else from proselytizing. So you can drop the religion canard. It’s not related, and there are already laws against it.

Why don’t you, after at least two people saying this to you directly, several times?



what I’m the world are you talking about?

You obviously don’t know any children outside your f’ed up family environment, and you definitely don’t know nor have you ever known any queer or trans children.

Who would feel safe enough to tell you?



Even worse than simple “deadly. Not like historically lethal, vicious, dishonest, miserable, and state-sponsored.

This is 2022, not 1957. You’re not getting those conditions back. They’re unconstitutional.

So exactly what is effed up about my family environment.
Is it because I have a daughter that is a dr or because I have a daughter that is a nurse.
Or because I have a son in law who is an author and emmy winner. Or because my other son in law is a microbiologist who gave up a career in private industry to become a school teacher.
Or is because I provided my family with a fine home, put a Sunday meal on the table 7 days a week.
Maybe it is because miand primarily my wife rescue animals. We currently have around 7 cats 3 dogs and a chicken all rescued.
The 2 horses aren't rescue but one is north of 25.
Yes we have a horrible effed up family life here. Nowhere near as excellent as I am sure yours is.

[gounion]

So exactly what is effed up about my family environment.
Is it because I have a daughter that is a dr or because I have a daughter that is a nurse.
Or because I have a son in law who is an author and emmy winner. Or because my other son in law is a microbiologist who gave up a career in private industry to become a school teacher.
Or is because I provided my family with a fine home, put a Sunday meal on the table 7 days a week.
Maybe it is because me and primarily my wife rescue animals. We currently have around 7 cats 3 dogs and a chicken all rescued.
The 2 horses aren't rescue but one is north of 25.
Yes we a horrible effed up family life here. Nowhere near as excellent as I am sure yours is.

Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back.

Your problem is, first, that you think you did it all yourself. Secondly, that you just don't have the ability to have empathy for others.

You say you support LGBTQ+ rights, but in fact you support your party's attacks on gays and trans people.

So have you asked your son-in-law, who is an actual teacher, what HE thinks of the Florida don't-say-gay law?

[Glennfs]

Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back.

Your problem is, first, that you think you did it all yourself. Secondly, that you just don't have the ability to have empathy for others.

You say you support LGBTQ+ rights, but in fact you support your party's attacks on gays and trans people.

So have you asked your son-in-law, who is an actual teacher, what HE thinks of the Florida don't-say-gay law?

No I was wondering what is effed up about my family atmosphere so I can improve it.

Btw there is no don't say gay law

[gounion]

No I was wondering what is effed up about my family atmosphere so I can improve it.

Btw there is no don't say gay law

Yes, Glenn, there is. But lies are all you have left, right?

Because you can't argue facts.

[carmenjonze]

So exactly what is effed up about my family environment.
Is it because I have a daughter that is a dr or because I have a daughter that is a nurse.
Or because I have a son in law who is an author and emmy winner. Or because my other son in law is a microbiologist who gave up a career in private industry to become a school teacher.
Or is because I provided my family with a fine home, put a Sunday meal on the table 7 days a week.
Maybe it is because miand primarily my wife rescue animals. We currently have around 7 cats 3 dogs and a chicken all rescued.
The 2 horses aren't rescue but one is north of 25.

It’s got nothing to do with them.

Having to live under a bigoted, militantly ignorant, homophobic, misogynist, transphobic, patriarchal conservative male who trots them out like stock cartoon characters to prove some kind of point, is exactly what makes your family fed up.

Yes we have a horrible effed up family life …

Not interested in your f’ed up family. Though it’s worth pointing out every time you do it, how shabbily you treat your own family members behind their backs to prove a point.

It’s indicative of how you treat them offline when they’re actually around.

Better them than me, is all I can say.

[carmenjonze]

No I was wondering what is effed up about my family atmosphere so I can improve it.

What kind of person uses their own family members as gender stick figures and ethnic tokens?

People like you are the reason a child might ask a teacher or school counselor about some topic you don’t approve of or even know enough about to give a coherent answer.

Those are the students targeted by these laws, as well as the school faculty and staff who don’t give the answers conservatives in government require.

If you’d actually watched the OP video beyond the most superficial viewing, you’d maybe have a chance of understanding this.

Btw there is no don't say gay law

Every LGBTQ rights group in the country disagrees with you and the rest of the unhooded kkk supporting these laws.

[ProfX]

It's an anonymous board. Anybody can say whatever they want about their personal or family life. It doesn't really matter, for many of us, there's no real way to verify it.

I don't think one should assume people on the board have no kids just because they don't discuss it. It could be because it is none of your business, and there's no point in talking about it. I don't think kids are something to wave like an achievement baton in front of others ... personally.

You really have no idea about people here. Some may have lost children. I hope not, but as I said, you can't know. I really wish people wouldn't assume what people haven't said.

[Glennfs]

It's an anonymous board. Anybody can say whatever they want about their personal or family life. It doesn't really matter, for many of us, there's no real way to verify it.

I don't think one should assume people on the board have no kids just because they don't discuss it. It could be because it is none of your business, and there's no point in talking about it. I don't think kids are something to wave like an achievement baton in front of others ... personally.

You really have no idea about people here. Some may have lost children. I hope not, but as I said, you can't know. I really wish people wouldn't assume what people haven't said.

You are very correct.
I post about my family because we are typical of families not an exception.

I find that some people here would consider people like me to.be less than successful and my children to be drains on society.

Because of their personal and limited views on conservatives.

As for the comments about no children I know I've heard here that only women should have an opinion about abortion.
That and if we are talking about race issues many people use the term whitesplaining which is tantamount the same.

[ProfX]

I find that some people here would consider people like me to.be less than successful and my children to be drains on society.

I'm glad you raised three successful kids. Good for you. I don't comment on your family life as it isn't really my business.

All I would say is, there are all kinds of families out there, some with adoptive or foster kids, some with step kids, some with a Brady Bunch mix of both; and families with none. Some people like Randi Rhodes had no kids of their own, but later raised the daughter of a sister who died young. All I would say when it comes to family is judge not, and you will not be judged. Family these days comes in a lot of configurations.

As for the comments about no children I know I've heard here that only women should have an opinion about abortion.

I don't know many who have said that. The final decision should be the woman's (within parameters of the laws of Roe, of course). That does not mean no man can have an opinion, including her husband or male partner. But I still return to what I said. I don't know any women with a consensual male partner that wouldn't discuss the decision with them first.

That and if we are talking about race issues many people use the term whitesplaining which is tantamount the same.

In general, "x-splaining" is people not from the group assuming they know everything about the group's viewpoint, position, situation, and experiences. That's the problem with mansplaining, whitesplaining, and yes what some Jews call goysplaining.