Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

News and events of the day
Bludogdem
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Bludogdem »

ProfX wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:08 pm No, if a person commits a crime with a gun, I'm perfectly fine with them being charged with a crime, such as (say) armed robbery. If they committed that crime with an illegal or stolen gun, definitely should be an additional charge just for that. Hopefully that felony on their record prevents future firearm ownership. Saul Goodman.

Stop and Frisk? Don't like it. Here's some reasons.
https://civilrights.org/edfund/resource ... itutional/
That felony by law prevents future firearm ownership. Problem is that doesn’t stop a lot of felons. And when they are caught with a gun they often get off on a plea deal. Weak prosecution. A felon caught with a gun under disability needs to go away for a long time. It’ll fill up prisons but it’ll make the streets safer. And after a bit felons might get the idea that it’s not safe to possess a gun.
User avatar
carmenjonze
Posts: 5571
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 am

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

Libertas wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:18 pm Stop and frisk spoken by someone who would never have it happen to them, and not because they are above suspicion, but for of the complexion for the protection for the collection. (Paul Mooney)


https://youtu.be/wXk_DPpUFlo
Maybe but Paul Mooney is a nasty little misogynist who capes for DV perp Chris Brown in this set.
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
________________________________
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 2149
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

The problems with Chicago’s gang-centric narrative of gun violence
https://www.injusticewatch.org/news/pol ... narrative/

Gangs have existed in Chicago for more than 100 years, transforming from predominantly white immigrant groups to Black and Latinx ones. The Trace analyzed annual reports published by CPD from 1965 to 2019, and found that the department rarely attributed murders to gangs or organized crime until the mid-’90s, the height of the “superpredator” era.

[snip]

“Violence comes from frustration, from anger, from not having the rent, or not having food, or not having a good job,” he said. “Until we address those issues, I think sometimes it’s easier just to say it is a gang problem.”

[snip][end]

Again with great material from the Trace, and worth reading.

Could also discuss matters like community disinvestment.

Longstanding Impact of Disinvestment in Communities
A 2017 report by the University of Illinois at Chicago’s Great Cities Institute found a 26% drop in manufacturing jobs for young African Americans
https://www.nbcchicago.com/violence-in- ... s/2640091/
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
User avatar
Libertas
Posts: 2922
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:42 pm Maybe but Paul Mooney is a nasty little misogynist who capes for DV perp Chris Brown in this set.
Always wondered who he was talking about, not up on Brown or that story.
Last edited by Libertas on Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
carmenjonze
Posts: 5571
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 am

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

Bludogdem wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:29 pm A felon caught with a gun under disability needs to go away for a long time.
This is pure eugenicism.

This isn't 1927 Virginia, or 1950s California.

No, they don't.
It’ll fill up prisons but ...
Filling up prisons is great for the prison industry.

How much do you have invested in it?
... it’ll make the streets safer.
No it won't, because that's not the goal.

The goal is criminalization of as many not-white-conservative people as possible, so conservative whites can "feel safe" for a hot second.

If streets were actually safer, what would law-and-order conservative whites have to run and fundraise on, year in and year out?
And after a bit felons might get the idea that it’s not safe to possess a gun.
Thank you for the rationale behind sentencing disparities.

Demographic Differences in Sentencing - United States Sentencing Commission/ussc.gov
Last edited by carmenjonze on Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
________________________________
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 2149
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

Our prisons are pretty filled up already.

Image

As to whether that's made our country safer, well, I guess we have been noting the contrary evidence.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
User avatar
carmenjonze
Posts: 5571
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 am

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

If people wonder why I call white conservatism "perverted" it's because of the kind of perverse thinking exhibited by these conservative people around here.

That multiple mass-murders a day is "safe."

Or that yelling chicago every time yet another white supremacist mass-murders a school or church or mosque or shopping mall or synagogue or grocery store, even makes any sense. :?

Or that 4th Amendment violations as public policy, such as Stop and Frisk, is a good idea.

Or ignoring that this is entirely a cis male/cis man problem which indicates how inept this society is in training cis men, will make the problem go away.

Now watch these conservative men cry sexism. :problem:
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
________________________________
ap215
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:41 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ap215 »

Boy, 2, Accidentally Shoots And Kills Father In US

Miami: A two-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed his father in Florida after his parents left a loaded gun unattended, local authorities said Monday.

When police officers, alerted by a 911 call, arrived at the victim's home near Orlando on May 26, they found the child's mother Marie Ayala providing CPR to her husband, Reggie Mabry.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-gun- ... us-3044403
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 2149
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

Live by the gun, die by the gun.

Or, maybe, don't be so foolish as to leave a loaded gun in easy reach of your toddler. :|
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 1328
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Number6 »

Strange that 32% of the American population owns a gun while 68% don't. The main reason I hear for owning a gun is for protection. So what does it say about the 32% versus the 68% of our population aren't aren't paranoid or living in fear?
When you vote left, you vote right.
Glennfs
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:51 pm Strange that 32% of the American population owns a gun while 68% don't. The main reason I hear for owning a gun is for protection. So what does it say about the 32% versus the 68% of our population aren't aren't paranoid or living in fear?

I am surprised you didn't provide a link seems you always ask for one.

If your figures are correct that would make about 105 million gun owners. Thom Hartmann recently claimed there are in the neighborhood of 600 guns in the USA.
That would work out to about 6 guns per owner.
Personally I believe we have far more than 100million gun owners and far more than 600 million guns
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 2149
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-tren ... ownership/

Three-in-ten American adults say they currently own a gun, and another 11% say they don’t personally own a gun but live with someone who does. Among those who don’t currently own a gun, about half say they could see themselves owning one in the future.

[snip][end]

About two-thirds of gun owners own more than one gun
Most gun owners (66%) say they own more than one gun, with about three-in-ten (29%) saying they own five or more guns.

[snip][end]

Absolutely correct that there are more guns (owned) in America than people, though, although this is the reason why. (Estimates are there are 120.5 guns for every 100 people).

Increasingly, the people who own guns are very likely to own multiple.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 1328
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:30 pm I am surprised you didn't provide a link seems you always ask for one.
I figure since most of my posts, like carmen and the Professor, have a history of being accurate I didn't need a link but I'll provide you one.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=3887145
If your figures are correct that would make about 105 million gun owners. Thom Hartmann recently claimed there are in the neighborhood of 600 guns in the USA.
That would work out to about 6 guns per owner.
Since you asked me for a link on my figure how about you providing a link on Thom Hartmann's claim or is this another request you're going to runaway from?
Personally I believe we have far more than 100million gun owners and far more than 600 million guns
From my link, the average gun owner owns five firearms so doing the math, if population of the U.S. was 332,403,650 in 2021 then the number of gun owners would be 106,369,168. If the average five firearms each that would amount to 531,845,840 guns in the country.
When you vote left, you vote right.
User avatar
carmenjonze
Posts: 5571
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 am

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:30 pmThom Hartmann recently claimed there are in the neighborhood of 600 guns in the USA.
When did he say this?
That would work out to about 6 guns per owner.
Personally I believe we have far more than 100million gun owners and far more than 600 million guns
Where are you getting these numbers from?
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
________________________________
User avatar
Libertas
Posts: 2922
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Libertas »

Some of my friends disagree with me, and I respect that, but I say this gun talk is very important for several reasons, the obvious reason that our gun ownership is insane but also that for the first time in modern history, MAGA and the GOP have made it clear they intend to use guns to get their way.

Last count that was 75 million Americans.

Not saying everyone who voted for traitor owns a gun or would commit violence, but if just one third do, well we have a problem that in the past was unthinkable. Didnt trump just tweet a picture of him holding an AK 47 implying this is how the elections will be settled? Someone can find the info, but NOBODY would doubt he would do that. I saw something at DU, but I cant find it now.
Image
User avatar
Libertas
Posts: 2922
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Libertas »

NRA orders all GOP to vote against reform.


https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status ... ySE_fsbP4w

Screenshots of the orders to Republicans from party leadership, per
@AndrewSolender
.

“The Whip team will be talking to your boss...” They then list that the NRA opposes both gun safety bills.
You are all mass murderers.

You are all enemies of the human race.


Image
Image
Glennfs
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Glennfs »

I drove overnight yesterday and was listening to a rebroadcast of the Dean Obeidallah show
A conservative caller had a great idea on gun control that blew away the host and the guest.
It went like this, raisevthe age for assault weapons to 21. For all other weapons quit locking away juvenile offenders records at age 18 when it comes to firearm purchases.

Extend those criminal records until age 21. That would eliminate people with juvie records from buying any gun until age 21. Plus add to the law if you get in trouble between the ages of 18 to 21 your juvie records stay open forever.
Doing this would not only prevent many bad players from ever buying a gun. It would not effect people between 18 and 21 who were sportsmen and law abiding from buying hunting rifles.

What a great common sense approach to the problem
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 2149
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

I do not want to stop 18 year olds from getting "hunting rifles". I'm OK with TX and many states letting you get a hunting .22 rifle or hunting shotgun at 18 ... that law doesn't bother me. Those are not mass murder/hunting humans tools.

But, an AR-15 or other assault rifle/semi auto/hunting humans weapon ... that should be age 21, or maybe age 25. They should not be treated the same as hunting rifles. They are hunting humans, weapons of war.

As I keep saying, though, we could get lost on the weeds on how many semi autos get banned, which models, makes, manufacturers, till blue in the face; I really am starting to think the simpler and more effective thing ultimately is limiting magazine capacity, since that also seems to be the main enabler for human hunting. The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about ammo, only arms. Aka "powder and shot".
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
Glennfs
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Glennfs »

ProfX wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:42 am I do not want to stop 18 year olds from getting "hunting rifles". I'm OK with TX and many states letting you get a hunting .22 rifle or hunting shotgun at 18 ... that law doesn't bother me. Those are not mass murder/hunting humans tools.

But, an AR-15 or other assault rifle/semi auto/hunting humans weapon ... that should be age 21, or maybe age 25. They should not be treated the same as hunting rifles. They are hunting humans, weapons of war.

As I keep saying, though, we could get lost on the weeds on how many semi autos get banned, which models, makes, manufacturers, till blue in the face; I really am starting to think the simpler and more effective thing ultimately is limiting magazine capacity, since that also seems to be the main enabler for human hunting. The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about ammo, only arms. Aka "powder and shot".
Exactly which is why that idea is so great. If you are 18 to 21 and did not get in trouble as a kid, no problem buy all the hunting guns you want.
If you did get in trouble no problem stay clean until age 21 and your juvie records go away and buy any weapon you want.
If you do get in trouble between 18 and 21 your juvie records are never locked away and you can never legally purchase any gun
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 2149
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

HR 7910 is awesome, Protecting Our Kids Act.

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-chan ... ct-hr-7910

Raise the purchasing age for semi-automatic rifles from 18 to 21
Ban the import, sale, manufacture, transfer or possession of high-capacity ammunition magazines (existing magazines would be “grandfathered” in); allow states and localities to compensate individuals who surrender high-capacity magazines through buyback programs
Beef up federal criminal penalties for gun trafficking and straw purchases
Establish voluntary best practices for safe firearms storage, including tax credits for purchasing safe storage devices
Establish requirements to regulate the storage of guns at home and criminal penalties for violating them
Require existing bump stocks be registered under the National Firearms Act; bar the manufacture, sale, or possession of new bump stocks for civilian use
Amend the definition of “ghost guns” to require background checks on all sales

[snip][end]

It's all good. All the measures here are widely popular, even with some NRA members, as well as other gun owners. It should pass in the House, it shouldn't die in the Senate, but yeah I'm afraid it will meet the filibuster.

H.R. 2377 Federal Extreme Risk Protection Order Act of 2021 ... does one and only one thing, sets up a federal "red flag" system that could apply in all 50 states. (Dunno if it would be void in Oklahoma, guess so).

It's another good bill. It SHOULD pass Congress. But as we well know, should and will are very different things. :|
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
Glennfs
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Glennfs »

ProfX wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:12 am HR 7910 is awesome, Protecting Our Kids Act.

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-chan ... ct-hr-7910

Raise the purchasing age for semi-automatic rifles from 18 to 21
Ban the import, sale, manufacture, transfer or possession of high-capacity ammunition magazines (existing magazines would be “grandfathered” in); allow states and localities to compensate individuals who surrender high-capacity magazines through buyback programs
Beef up federal criminal penalties for gun trafficking and straw purchases
Establish voluntary best practices for safe firearms storage, including tax credits for purchasing safe storage devices
Establish requirements to regulate the storage of guns at home and criminal penalties for violating them
Require existing bump stocks be registered under the National Firearms Act; bar the manufacture, sale, or possession of new bump stocks for civilian use
Amend the definition of “ghost guns” to require background checks on all sales

[snip][end]

It's all good. All the measures here are widely popular, even with some NRA members, as well as other gun owners. It should pass in the House, it shouldn't die in the Senate, but yeah I'm afraid it will meet the filibuster.

H.R. 2377 Federal Extreme Risk Protection Order Act of 2021 ... does one and only one thing, sets up a federal "red flag" system that could apply in all 50 states. (Dunno if it would be void in Oklahoma, guess so).

It's another good bill. It SHOULD pass Congress. But as we well know, should and will are very different things. :|
I heard a progressive talker say they believe the Senate will pass something. Because if you lose the mom's you lose the election
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 2149
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

Action continues at the state level even if federal Congress won't act. This is what the state of New York just passed under Gov. Hochul.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/0 ... w-00037363

[snip]

The Red Flag law in New York will be expanded to allow more people, including health-care professionals, to file risk orders that could lead to weapons confiscations from potentially dangerous people. And it requires, rather than allows, law enforcement to seek an order if credible information is provided.

Semi-automatic rifles, which already difficult to obtain in New York, will added to the list to the weapons requiring a permit and will only be available to those over age 21.

Another bill would ban the sale of body armor to people outside law enforcement or other state-designated professions, and it will add microstamping to bullets — which can better trace their origin. Social media companies will be required to improve their policies around how they respond to hateful conduct on their platforms, as well as “maintain easily accessible mechanisms” for the public to report people.

[snip][end[

I support everything NYS did, including the social media regulations. It's a good model for other states. Gov. Hochul, BTW, is from Buffalo.

The Second Amendment is not absolute.”

Amen.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 1328
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:35 am I drove overnight yesterday and was listening to a rebroadcast of the Dean Obeidallah show
A conservative caller had a great idea on gun control that blew away the host and the guest.
It went like this, raisevthe age for assault weapons to 21. For all other weapons quit locking away juvenile offenders records at age 18 when it comes to firearm purchases.

Extend those criminal records until age 21. That would eliminate people with juvie records from buying any gun until age 21. Plus add to the law if you get in trouble between the ages of 18 to 21 your juvie records stay open forever.
Doing this would not only prevent many bad players from ever buying a gun. It would not effect people between 18 and 21 who were sportsmen and law abiding from buying hunting rifles.

What a great common sense approach to the problem
This might be worth looking into. Juvenile records are locked for various reasons and since they’re locked by orders of the court it would take a court order to unlock them. It would place an enormous burden upon the states to review each juvenile record covering many decades to determine which records should remain locked and which to unlock. Some juvenile records are locked to protect the juvenile not because they’ve done something wrong but because they might be victims of abuse.

I don’t think the federal government can mandate state courts to do this since the courts aren’t under federal control. If the federal government could mandate it they would have to establish a database, like the Do not Fly List, and enter each record which would take years to complete. Then there’s the issue of whether a juvenile convicted as an adult but who has serve their sentence whether they should be entered into the database. Add to this, you’d have to add a process in which a person whose juvenile record was unlocked and entered into the database can request their name to be removed.

Like I said, it might be worth looking into.
When you vote left, you vote right.
User avatar
carmenjonze
Posts: 5571
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 am

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

Praise for Uvalde shooter and call for copycats is growing online, Homeland Security warns - Chron

Too many conservative, gun-crazed freaks in this country.
In a U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security bulletin released Thursday, officials sounded the alarm over violent extremist content and misinformation following the shooting in Uvalde, Texas.

The bulletin comes as evidence of law enforcement’s calamitous mishandling of the shooting continues to emerge.

Officers took more than an hour to enter the school after the attack began, as parents implored them to intervene. One Uvalde mother who rescued her two children from the school while the shooter was still inside said U.S. marshals tried to stop her by threatening her with arrest and handcuffing her.

A New York Times story published Friday alleged that Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Police Chief Pete Arredondo committed disastrous communication errors that slowed law enforcement’s response as the shooting unfolded.
Officials advised readers to “maintain digital and media literacy” and practice recognizing “false or misleading narratives” to protect themselves against proliferating misinformation.
Digital literacy is dead, and probably never even existed to begin with, outside of our starry-eyed fantasies. Media literacy...potentially still alive, but...
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
________________________________
gounion
Posts: 4013
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 8:26 pm Passing on the Maryland Assault Weapons ban is an odd way to achieve that.
They also passed on an earlier abortion ruling. They are doing things for the maximum effect.
Post Reply