The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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carmenjonze
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

Post by carmenjonze »

Andrea Junker
@Strandjunker

Police officer Kim Potter just received 16 months and a $1,000 fine for the murder of Daunte Wright. In case anyone has forgotten, this is why Colin Kaepernick took a knee.

https://twitter.com/Strandjunker/status ... 6755216384
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/court-rules- ... 15793.html
Court rules Minneapolis mayor failed to hire more police
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — The Minnesota Supreme Court has ruled that the mayor of Minneapolis hasn't met a legal duty to hire more police officers or demonstrate why he hasn't done so.

In a Monday ruling, Chief Justice Lorie Gildea said Mayor Jacob Frey has a “clear legal duty” under the city’s charter to staff the department with at least 731 sworn officers, a number based on the population of Minneapolis.

Interim City Attorney Peter Ginder said the city has about 300 fewer officers than it did before George Floyd was killed by police in May 2020. The city's former police chief had attributed the departures to retirements and officers who filed disability claims, some citing symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder linked to the protests over Floyd’s killing.
+
Eight residents concerned about crime sought the court order to force the city to hire more police as required by the charter. The state Supreme Court heard arguments earlier this month from them that the current staffing is about 120 officers less than they believed was required.

Minneapolis attorneys argued that the charter requirement relates only to funding, but the mayor still may determine how the money may be used within the department.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

Post by bradman »

bradman wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:50 am This is a fair run down from beginning to end.......
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/08/3 ... -explained

And yet another Dem. speaks up....


https://patch.com/minnesota/southwestmi ... e-quesiton
Sen. Smith Explains Why She'll Vote 'No' On MPLS Police Question


(A correction....One of the articles i posted on the old board had Keith Ellison voting against Yes4Mpls. Not true. Ellison backs Yes4Mpls.)
Since the reason i started this thread was to keep a run down of Yes4Mpls this kinda fits. In todays Mn. news....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/minn-democra ... 00548.html
Minn. Democrats embrace police-friendly message amid concerns about crime
Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz pushed for "substantive police reform" after the killing of George Floyd two years ago. Now, the Democratic governor is framing himself as a tough-on-crime supporter of law enforcement as he seeks re-election.

U.S. Reps. Angie Craig and Dean Phillips, both Democrats who represent Twin Cities suburbs, voted to pass a sprawling federal police reform package after Floyd's death that would have stripped away a hotly debated provision that can protect law enforcement officers against civil lawsuits. Facing re-election challenges, the two are publicly distancing themselves from that part of the bill.

Walz, Craig and Phillips are among Democrats across the country scaling back police reform ambitions and emphasizing a law-enforcement-friendly approach as they calibrate their message to appeal to voters rattled by violent crime.

"As crimes have gone up — both crimes of property and violent crimes — obviously there's going to be an emphasis on pivoting towards that," Walz said in an interview. "But I don't think it changes us from thinking about what [is] modern policing going to look like?"
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Republican Jim Schultz said he will keep hammering away on that against Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, who backed last year's failed ballot amendment to replace the Minneapolis Police Department with a new Department of Public Safety. Ellison said he does not regret endorsing the measure.

"It is really something to have an attorney general, the chief law enforcement officer of our state, get behind a policy like this," Schultz said. "I think it will hurt him."
To which Ellison responds....
"Public officials, with Keith Ellison at the front of them, have been extraordinarily hostile to them," Schultz said. "As attorney general, I will have the back of law enforcement."

Ellison rebutted that charge and said he was "never for defund the police." He said he supported the Minneapolis ballot measure because he wanted to build a more holistic department that includes police, mental health responders and other emergency personnel.

The Democrat said he has a strong working relationship with city and suburban police chiefs and even helped the St. Paul Police Department write a recruitment message.

"It is a noble profession, and we need good people in it. My thought is, if you don't join, then the Derek Chauvins of this world will," said Ellison, who prosecuted Chauvin for murdering Floyd.
I've always liked Ellison. He's come a long way.
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carmenjonze
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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From the article:
bradman wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:47 am Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz pushed for "substantive police reform" after the killing of George Floyd two years ago. Now, the Democratic governor is framing himself as a tough-on-crime supporter of law enforcement as he seeks re-election.
Huh. Well, he's late to the party.

All the corps took down all those diversity statements on their websites like a year ago.

The pride flags/banners/stickers/rainbow logos go up June 1 and come right down on June 30.

And Biden wants to throw more munny at the cops, now.

:problem:
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carmenjonze
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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"Defunding the police" never occurred, by the way.

Defunding education, well, that is a different story.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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carmenjonze wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:52 pm "Defunding the police" never occurred, by the way.

Defunding education, well, that is a different story.
Wait, really?

Weird, I watch fox news and CNN and they said the opposite :twisted:
I sigh in your general direction.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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Libertas wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:27 pm Wait, really?

Weird, I watch fox news and CNN and they said the opposite :twisted:
Yes!

So it must be troo!
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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carmenjonze wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:52 pm "Defunding the police" never occurred, by the way.

Defunding education, well, that is a different story.
[bold] It may never have been the official party position but, if ya go back in this thread you will find some prominent people in the party saying just that. "Defund the police." It's kinda what Yes4Mpls. was all about.

Even Omar is starting to backtrack.

Mid terms depend on this new position. :|
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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bradman wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:19 pm [bold] It may never have been the official party position but, if ya go back in this thread you will find some prominent people in the party saying just that. "Defund the police."
Except I never said no one ever uttered the phrase or that it was ever the official party position.

What I said was that no defunding of the police happened. Sure was a lot of pointless handwringing by conservatives, though.
It's kinda what Yes4Mpls. was all about.

Even Omar is starting to backtrack.

Mid terms depends on this new position. :|
Midterms do not depend on capitulating to people who don't GAD about police brutality.

You guys are playing the equivalent of banning curricula that has never been in the schools in the first place, and Islamic laws that have never been passed. And guys like you and that snake in the grass greengrass have been declaring the midterms lost unless everyone else bows to these fears, frightened of nonexistent scapegoats.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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carmenjonze wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:29 pm Except I never said no one ever uttered the phrase or that it was ever the official party position.

What I said was that no defunding of the police happened. Sure was a lot of pointless handwringing by conservatives, though.



Midterms do not depend on capitulating to people who don't GAD about police brutality.

You guys are playing the equivalent of banning curricula that has never been in the schools in the first place, and Islamic laws that have never been passed. And guys like you and that snake in the grass greengrass have been declaring the midterms lost unless everyone else bows to these fears, frightened of nonexistent scapegoats.
We can't change anything if we don't hold power.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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bradman wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:34 pm We can't change anything if we don't hold power.
I'm not sure what "we" you're referring to.

Capitulation to people throwing munny at who will literally kill you with a shot in the back doesn't give even the illusion of power.

Well..."you," not literal you.

That happens to "us."
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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Calls for unity and civility and compromise coming from people who never have to compromise j.s. is just more supremacy.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

Post by carmenjonze »

The opposite of defunding happened. More like a lot of grifting.

Rifles, Tasers and Jails: How Cities and States Spent Billions of COVID-19 Relief - Marshall Project
President Biden’s signature American Rescue Plan Act gave local governments $350 billion to recover from COVID-19. They spent much of it on police, prisons and the courts.

With few limitations on how local governments can allocate ARPA funds, the spending will likely continue reflecting each municipality’s priorities and values. In many cases, the money flows to programs and institutions not with the greatest need during a public health crisis and economic upheaval, but those with the most existing political and budgetary power: police, corrections and the courts.

Here's an example of how local government spent the federal COVID-19 relief fund on the criminal justice system.


Revenue Replacement

For all that we can see from the latest data, there is one very large, and largely opaque category: The majority of all current ARPA obligations, $52.6 billion, were categorized as “Revenue Replacement.” To claim revenue replacement, local governments can either calculate how much tax revenue they lost because of the pandemic using a formula, or elect for a one-time allowance of $10 million. The Treasury Department said this would provide greater flexibility and eliminate administrative burden — but experts say it also reduces accountability and oversight.

Nearly half of this $52.6 billion went to projects that mentioned police, law enforcement, courts, jails and prisons, The Marshall Project found. We searched criminal justice-related terms in the project descriptions that local governments submitted to the Treasury.

It’s challenging to parse out exactly how much money was spent solely on criminal justice nationwide, especially because the project descriptions local governments submit to the Treasury can vary in length and detail. They can be as vague as “government service expenses” ($22 million, Laredo, Texas). Or they can be as broad as “salaries and burden for the provision of core government services, which includes personnel costs for all departments” ($106.6 million, Anaheim, California).

In many cases, the local government has not earmarked how they are spending the revenue replacement funds at all. In its report to the Treasury, New Orleans, Louisiana allocated all $194 million it received so far under one project: “The City has identified revenue loss replacement as its initial project.” This money, along with other revenue replacement funds, will flow to the city’s general fund, where it could be spent according to the city’s existing budgetary priorities.


Police equipment and infrastructure


Image
Much more in link.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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carmenjonze wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:49 pm I'm not sure what "we" you're referring to.

Capitulation to people throwing munny at who will literally kill you with a shot in the back doesn't give even the illusion of power.

Well..."you," not literal you.

That happens to "us."
Life sucks and then ya die.

Been like that forever.

In the mean time.........i'm going to keep pushing that boulder up hill.

Two steps forward and one step back..

.
.
.
,
,
,
,

Someone's gotta change that shit.

The Sisyphus story needs to take into the occasional giant leap backward that leaves ya reeling at the bottom of the hill.

[edit] in the mean time. i'm done with the anger thing. It's not good for one's health let alone civilization as a whole.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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bradman wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:57 pm Life sucks and then ya die.
Not good enough.

Do better.
[edit] in the mean time. i'm done with the anger thing. It's not good for one's health let alone civilization as a whole.
Your community can afford this glib attitude about overpolicing. None of mine can.

I'll get advice about what's good for civilization and personal health elsewhere, but thanks.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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I speak for nobody but me, but I don't think the fundamental debate has gone away.

Minority communities are overpoliced. Minorities are over-arrested and sentenced vs. whites. We incarcerate way too many people in this country AND there's a complexion to it. A lot of it has to do with the tragic, irrational, counterproductive "War on Drugs". This is a reality. And the saddest of all, the data is there, they are more likely to wrongly encounter physical brutality, or lethal force.

We use police for situations where they are the wrong tool for the problem. We need more funding for resources for crisis intervention that don't involve them. Said that in another thread. I guess "readjust funding priorities" doesn't have the cachet of "defund the police". It's not that I want nobody to be picking up 911 and sending help if you're getting mugged. But we do need police to be accountable.

I still think it's what we need to do. Use whatever words you want. And this is a national debate, even if the problem is in local communities all over the country. Just sitting on city and county commissions won't fix it.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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ProfX wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:05 am I speak for nobody but me, but I don't think the fundamental debate has gone away.

Minority communities are overpoliced. Minorities are over-arrested and sentenced vs. whites. We incarcerate way too many people in this country AND there's a complexion to it. A lot of it has to do with the tragic, irrational, counterproductive "War on Drugs". This is a reality. And the saddest of all, the data is there, they are more likely to wrongly encounter physical brutality, or lethal force.

We use police for situations where they are the wrong tool for the problem. We need more funding for resources for crisis intervention that don't involve them. Said that in another thread. I guess "readjust funding priorities" doesn't have the cachet of "defund the police". It's not that I want nobody to be picking up 911 and sending help if you're getting mugged. But we do need police to be accountable.

I still think it's what we need to do. Use whatever words you want. And this is a national debate, even if the problem is in local communities all over the country. Just sitting on city and county commissions won't fix it.


[bold]Agreed. Use the wrong tool for the task at hand and ya ruin the tool.
I still think it's what we need to do. Use whatever words you want. And this is a national debate, even if the problem is in local communities all over the country. Just sitting on city and county commissions won't fix it.
That i can't agree with. i get what ya mean by a national debate. The big picture. i just don't think the big picture is working that well. i mean come on, how long have we been talking about a national data base to track bad cops. Nothing yet.
On the bother hand, if the Mpls. Charter and and City Council would have had the right members Yes4Mpls* may have passed. Even now the Mpls. Charter Commission has the power to reword the charter to include Crisis Response Teams in their budget. Change the ratio. For every cop hired a Crisis responder has to be hired. Start small. Work your way out. Community involvement.

*And if those members pushing Yes4Mpls. would have worded the Charter Amendment better it could have passed. Unfortunately the Amendment read like they were trying to abolish the police department. They should have known better.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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bradman wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:25 pm On the bother hand, if the Mpls. Charter and and City Council would have had the right members Yes4Mpls* may have passed. Even now the Mpls. Charter Commission has the power to reword the charter to include Crisis Response Teams in their budget. Change the ratio. For every cop hired a Crisis responder has to be hired. Start small. Work your way out. Community involvement.

*And if those members pushing Yes4Mpls. would have worded the Charter Amendment better it could have passed. Unfortunately the Amendment read like they were trying to abolish the police department. They should have known better.
So here's what I'm saying. I agree this problem has been, should be tackled locally. In Minneapolis, ... in Miami, ... in LA, in NYC ... in Detroit, or in Chicago, in Memphis, or in New Orleans. Could keep going. A lot of cities in this nation.

My only point would be, that doesn't mean there isn't ALSO a necessity for Federal action, however stalled it's been (same way I feel on, well, "the mass shooting/gun problem".)
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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bradman wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:25 pm [bold]Agreed. Use the wrong tool for the task at hand and ya ruin the tool.
You're more concerned about the tool than the lives they've ruined?

Wow, okay.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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carmenjonze wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:04 am You're more concerned about the tool than the lives they've ruined?

Wow, okay.
Of course i'm concerned. It's the whole point of rethinking the way the tool is being used.

Hope ya don't mind Prof......

viewtopic.php?p=37506#p37506
The question is, should they be getting called ...

To handle a 9 year old girl in a school having a tantrum?
To deal with a mentally ill person who is having, as they say, an "episode"?
To deal with a kid playing with a toy gun?
To deal with someone whose "crime" was ... spraying graffiti?
To be used as props by Guv. DePutin to arrest people for the crime of ... voting?
And now ... to "investigate" the status of a pregnant woman who had a miscarriage?


The problem I think is they've become the hammer to hit the nail of a lot of social problems, and yeah, they are being overused. And yep, that is most definitely not a training issue. This is a "society needs to rethink what cops are for" issue. Perhaps people with capacity for lethal force should not be the FIRST people to call. To me that's one of the core things in the "defund" debate ... maybe we ALSO need more, better paid social workers, mental health professionals, crisis counselors, etc.
[bold]100% agreed. There's no reason to use armed police officers for any of that. There's the rub. Who you going to call for that?

i've mentioned it before. i just don't think one can be gotten rid of without first having something to replace it. :|

It's why i've been advocating for social workers, mental health professionals, crisis counselors.....or.....Unarmed Crisis Response Teams. Create the department and fund it damn it! :|

What makes me sad. Mpls. was soooooooooooo close to pulling it off. If they just would have worded the Yes4 Mpls. better we could perhaps have had those teams up and running by now. :|
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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bradman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:57 am Of course i'm concerned. It's the whole point of rethinking the way the tool is being used.
Ok well, perhaps in this case using metaphors trips you up than helps you explain what you're talking about.

Given what I know about you and the cops, Kyle Rittenhouse, etc, it really does sound like your're more interested in supporting them than us.
Hope ya don't mind Prof......

viewtopic.php?p=37506#p37506


[bold]100% agreed. There's no reason to use armed police officers for any of that. There's the rub. Who you going to call for that?

i've mentioned it before. i just don't think one can be gotten rid of without first having something to replace it. :|

It's why i've been advocating for social workers, mental health professionals, crisis counselors.....or.....Unarmed Crisis Response Teams. Create the department and fund it damn it! :|

What makes me sad. Mpls. was soooooooooooo close to pulling it off. If they just would have worded the Yes4 Mpls. better we could perhaps have had those teams up and running by now. :|
This strategy never works, though. It reminds me of swing-state strategy, in which you're supposed to appeal to frightened conservatives to try and get them to vote D.

Doesn't work.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

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carmenjonze wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:06 am Ok well, perhaps in this case using metaphors trips you up than helps you explain what you're talking about.

Given what I know about you and the cops, Kyle Rittenhouse, etc, it really does sound like your're more interested in supporting them than us.


This strategy never works, though. It reminds me of swing-state strategy, in which you're supposed to appeal to frightened conservatives to try and get them to vote D.

Doesn't work.
Would ya be surprised if i told ya i've now had fun with two people that thought they knew all about CRT?

The first one didn't go very well. The prototype never does. The second conversation? i put a dent in that boy. :D He started out with his 3-4 friend laughing and nodding in agreement. i let him go on and on and on. Once he ran out of breath i countered his points one by one. By the time i bid adieu.... his friends had grown silent. :D

I've always been on your side. It's why i'm a member of the DFL. Ya know, the guys that hijacked the Democratic party with the insane belief we should, " Walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights."..........

https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speech ... 48dnc.html

i'm not pro cop, i'm not anti cop. i just want the problems fixed and i'll never give up on the hope that they can be fixed.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

Post by carmenjonze »

bradman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:21 am I've always been on your side.
I reject this paternalism, more supremacism. People who talk like this invarably don't have any idea what "my side" even is.

I determine who is on my side, not you or anyone else.
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

Post by carmenjonze »

bradman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:21 am Would ya be surprised if i told ya i've now had fun with two people that thought they knew all about CRT?

The first one didn't go very well. The prototype never does. The second conversation? i put a dent in that boy. :D He started out with his 3-4 friend laughing and nodding in agreement. i let him go on and on and on. Once he ran out of breath i countered his points one by one. By the time i bid adieu.... his friends had grown silent. :D
That's cool.

But, you know I gotta ask. You read any CRT?
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Re: The Yes 4 Minneapolis charter amendment, explained

Post by carmenjonze »

For those who haven't read any actual CRT, I really recommend reading the basics, like the Critical Race Theory Reader - archive.org.

Not as anything to personally believe in or subscribe to, because there have been plenty of valid criticisms of CRT over the past 40 years of its existence. And by "valid" I don't mean this fashionable, trendy Heritage Foundation propaganda, I mean actual scholars with real critiques. Lol, read those, too.

But I do recommend reading some of it, especially from the early years. The only reason Rufo and Trump and these other conservative whites came up with the CRT/1619 scapegoats in the first place is all these young people protesting what happened to George Floyd around the world.

Conservative whites really hate it when people protest their authoritarian state violence.
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