UFOs are back

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ZoWie
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Re: UFOs are back

Post by ZoWie »

These old monuments, or at least the ones that survive, seem impossible. The Pyramids, Stonehenge, etc. I think they had some simple machines, basically devices for creating leverage. Some had the wheel, some didn't. The Mayans didn't, and they did OK. I think the old Picts, or whoever in what's now Britain, moved the Stonehenge rocks using log rollers. It would be possible, not easy, but possible, to lever these rocks and ones like them into a vertical position over a hole in the ground.

I think their secret was lots of people, and lots of time. When you have religion for motivation, you don't even need slave labor. That came in later. You just need to feed a whole lot of people. In those days, not having to grow or kill your own wretched food is motivation enough.

Easy compared to motivating people to support the Green New Deal.
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Re: UFOs are back

Post by ProfessorX »

If I can just say, having been to Giza, people marvel about the Great Pyramid, saying "how could people have built this?"

Well, you only have to go a slight distance to find that it sure looks like humans built it the way we've managed to accomplish a lot of things - trial and error.

Just a short distance away is the Bent Pyramid of Dhashur.

Image

All you've got to do is look around the Giza Plateau to see the Egyptians basically kept trying to build a regular pyramid, and failing, until they got it right. Trial and error.

If aliens built that one, they must have been drunk. :D
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rainwater
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Re: UFOs are back

Post by rainwater »

wood on sand would not hold up. no way "wood"..."logs"...would take the weight at all or for long.
theyd collapse. at best theyd sink in sand.

as for the walk ways..the ramps..the layers upon which the..blocks were hauled UP to the top...
where was the room, the space, for the 'thousands' of humans who pulled the big rock across
the sand on wood...whered they fit on the ramps, walkways, up to the top.
they didnt.
there is no history of their life on the sites in eygpt or elsewhere.

there is no way Today that without massive cranes, any of these "rocks" could be moved at all
let alone 100's or 1000's of miles across..earth landscape. :rw)
we cannot do it today.

whered rome get its firewood from. when did they run out and begin taking it from neighbors.
where did desert egypt get its firewood from.
these huge human clusters cooked meat and heated water using firewood from trees.
then, they ran out. then they fought. then they shipped across the nearest ocean hunting more
fucking trees.
you should remember the rest of the merican story.
Who are these..flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids, They speak
for all that is cruel stupid, They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of
these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it, Fuck them.
HST.

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rainwater
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Re: UFOs are back

Post by rainwater »

trial and error. eh.

if you can move 95 ton straight rock solid pillars upright til today do let me know how.
ill tell the rest.
they dont seem to recall how they did it. they just sorta scratch their heads.

there is massive tonnage all around the planet in places they have NO explanation for how.
there is far too much old structure on the earth and below the waters---we've not even noticed yet--
with NO explanation for how it got there at least by todays rationales.

so...go poo poo yo'self. :rw) :rw)
Who are these..flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids, They speak
for all that is cruel stupid, They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of
these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it, Fuck them.
HST.

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ZoWie
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Re: UFOs are back

Post by ZoWie »

LOL

I was offering suggestions into how ancient civilizations accomplished feats that look impossible even with today's technology. They were not explanations. I'm no surer of how they did some of this stuff than anyone else is.

My suggestion was mostly because I don't want to discount the ancients. They had the same ingenuity we do, and often a radically different cosmology from ours. The pyramids and the other amazing things that lasted 5000 or however many years were in a real sense filling the same human process that the space program does now. When a population wants something badly enough, and has the right kind of leadership, it finds a way.

(And we bitch that we can't figure out how to cut pollution. Poo. With the kind of collective energy that these ancients had, we could solve that one in 10 years. Hell, we could do a whole lot more than that. Numbers in bank accounts became more important.)

-------------

> Wood, wood, wood.

Wood has the same last three letters as food. I think that's a coincidence, but it's appropriate. It's a necessity. It burns. You can build things with it. It's all around. Dry it out, and you just survived another winter.

It grows on trees. Money doesn't, but wood does.

All through history, the problem has come when the demand for this stuff exceeded the natural or agricultural processes that grow it. You can't just cut down every forest in the world and say don't worry, it grows back. It's nowhere near that simple. Deforestation in any of its forms is a killer. It did in the Mayans, and they are hardly the only ones. It's doing us in.

Along with the logging thing, there are at least 100 other reasons why we need healthy forests. We ruined our forests, pretty much worldwide. They're gone, or out of balance.

This is existential. It must be dealt with, and that's all there is to it.
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Re: UFOs are back

Post by ProfessorX »

There's an article on the specific topic I mentioned. I admit even Egyptologists have no consensus on the topic either, but ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_ ... techniques

How was Stonehenge built? There's an even more detailed article out there.

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/vis ... tonehenge/

They are marvels, for sure, but yeah, I just bristle at those who limit human ingenuity and determination, either past or present.

I will also add that there was a very typical habit of Europeans finding ancient sites in Africa or Asia or the New World, in the 19th century, not believing those sites could have been built by such (quote) "primitive" peoples as lived there, and promptly pronouncing some "Aryans" or "Atlanteans" or something else they could make up, doing it otherwise.

So this has been going on for a long time.
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Number6
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Re: UFOs are back

Post by Number6 »

ProfessorX wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:06 pm
There's an article on the specific topic I mentioned. I admit even Egyptologists have no consensus on the topic either, but ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_ ... techniques

How was Stonehenge built? There's an even more detailed article out there.

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/vis ... tonehenge/

They are marvels, for sure, but yeah, I just bristle at those who limit human ingenuity and determination, either past or present.

I will also add that there was a very typical habit of Europeans finding ancient sites in Africa or Asia or the New World, in the 19th century, not believing those sites could have been built by such (quote) "primitive" peoples as lived there, and promptly pronouncing some "Aryans" or "Atlanteans" or something else they could make up, doing it otherwise.

So this has been going on for a long time.
Not only are the pyramids and henges mysteries but what amazes me is the civilizations that built them must have been fairly self-sufficient to have the time to build them. Consider Stonehenge, the people who built it weren't nomadic in that they had to have remained there to build it so they weren't just hunter/gatherers but established an agrarian society which easily feed their people. At some point, they were so successful they had enough time where they didn't have to devote to farming to where they could construct Stonehenge. Not only construct it but to redesign it a number of times. This seems to be true for other civilizations like the Egyptians, the Mayans, and the Aztecs. The were able to secure adequate food sources, water, and protection which allowed them to thrive and grow their population. Part of the reason(s) for building these structures, IMO, was what to do with the excess population and building structures was the answer. You keep the population busy which discouraged discontent to their societies as well as eliminating a possible threat to the ruling class.
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Re: UFOs are back

Post by ProfessorX »

I think the main uses of Stonehenge were astronomical and calendrical. It aligns to various celestial events (including the summer solstice) and would have been essential to maintain track of the seasons back before there were written calendars and apps. :D

As for what the builders were like -- now that is something we're learning more and more about.

Stonehenge: DNA reveals origin of builders
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47938188

When the researchers analysed the DNA of early British farmers, they found they most closely resembled Neolithic people from Iberia (modern Spain and Portugal). These Iberian farmers were descended from people who had journeyed across the Mediterranean.

[snip][end]

You're right, they were farmers, and seem to have arrived around 4000 BCE. They seem to have originated in Anatolia.

There's some debate about what the pyramids were used for, including the Great Pyramid. They may have been used as tombs, but the sarcophagi in the King's Chamber and Queen's Chamber have been empty for as long as historical records exist. Some Egyptologists think they were looted not long after they were built, possibly in the Middle or New Kingdom period.

One passage aligns with Alpha Draconis, or did at least when it was built, and the corners do align to the cardinal directions. That is also a geodetic marvel.
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Re: UFOs are back

Post by Number6 »

ProfessorX wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:28 pm
I think the main uses of Stonehenge were astronomical and calendrical. It aligns to various celestial events (including the summer solstice) and would have been essential to maintain track of the seasons back before there were written calendars and apps. :D

As for what the builders were like -- now that is something we're learning more and more about.

Stonehenge: DNA reveals origin of builders
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47938188

When the researchers analysed the DNA of early British farmers, they found they most closely resembled Neolithic people from Iberia (modern Spain and Portugal). These Iberian farmers were descended from people who had journeyed across the Mediterranean.

[snip][end]

You're right, they were farmers, and seem to have arrived around 4000 BCE. They seem to have originated in Anatolia.

There's some debate about what the pyramids were used for, including the Great Pyramid. They may have been used as tombs, but the sarcophagi in the King's Chamber and Queen's Chamber have been empty for as long as historical records exist. Some Egyptologists think they were looted not long after they were built, possibly in the Middle or New Kingdom period.

One passage aligns with Alpha Draconis, or did at least when it was built, and the corners do align to the cardinal directions. That is also a geodetic marvel.
It does seem the structures like Stonehenge, Mayan temples, and the Pyramids have a relationship to the sun and the stars. There's even a possible 1,000 year old Viking settlement in Newfoundland where an opening is aligned with the summer solstice. If that's the true meaning of all these structures it proves the ancient people were smarter than we give them credit.
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Re: UFOs are back

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Watershed U.S. UFO report does not rule out extraterrestrial origin
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-06-25/

A U.S. government report on UFOs issued on Friday said defense and intelligence analysts lack sufficient data to determine the nature of mysterious flying objects observed by American military pilots including whether they are advanced earthly technologies, atmospherics or of an extraterrestrial origin.

The unclassified nine-page report, released to Congress and the public, encompasses 144 observations - mostly from U.S. Navy personnel - of what the government officially calls "unidentified aerial phenomenon," or UAP, dating back to 2004.

[snip]

"UAP clearly pose a safety of flight issue and may pose a challenge to U.S. national security," the report stated, adding that the phenomena "probably lack a single explanation."

[snip]

The report includes some UAP cases that previously came to light in the Pentagon's release of video from naval aviators showing enigmatic aircraft off the U.S. East and West Coasts exhibiting speed and maneuverability exceeding known aviation technologies and lacking any visible means of propulsion or flight-control surfaces.

All but one of the listed sightings - an instance attributed to a large, deflating balloon - remain unexplained, subject to further analysis, the report said. For the other 143 cases, the report found that too little data exists to conclude whether they represent some exotic aerial system developed either by a U.S. government or commercial entity, or by a foreign power such as China or Russia.

In some observations, UAP appeared to exhibit "unusual patterns or flight characteristics," but those may stem from sensor glitches or witness misperceptions and "require additional rigorous analysis," the report said.

Analysts have yet to rule out an extraterrestrial origin, senior U.S. officials told reporters, speaking on condition of anonymity. The report's language avoided explicit mentions of such possibilities.

The study documented 11 UAP near-misses reported by pilots and a small number of cases in which military aircraft "processed radio frequency energy associated with UAP sightings." Most reports also described objects that interrupted training or other U.S. military exercises, it stated.

The task force focused on phenomena witnessed first-hand by military aviators, with 80 reports involving detection by multiple sensors, the report said. Most were from the past few years.

[snip][end]

I will only note there are observations in the report of structured objects, tracked on radar, multiply witnessed. The witnesses are often pilots which are pretty well trained on recognizing things in the sky. Not birds, not weather balloons, not a visual artifact (you can't track those on radar.)

Jacques Vallée has been arguing for a few decades that it is possible these are intelligences from parallel universes rather than "ETs". If you saw Indiana Jones & the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, that was the explanation of where "they" are from. That said, parallel universes make for great sci-fi, are actually predicted by a number of theoretical ideas in physics, but no one has definitively proved they exist, and the more important question, shown how could you get from one to another?

Possibly black holes, but you almost certainly could not survive the trip (sorry Interstellar) ...
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