EARTH....

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ProfX
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ProfX »

I happen to be a huge fan of Jane Goodall. But I also agree with this article.

Why we should be wary of blaming ‘overpopulation’ for the climate crisis
https://theconversation.com/why-we-shou ... sis-130709

In reality, the global human population is not increasing exponentially, but is in fact slowing and predicted to stabilise at around 11 billion by 2100. More importantly, focusing on human numbers obscures the true driver of many of our ecological woes. That is, the waste and inequality generated by modern capitalism and its focus on endless growth and profit accumulation.

The industrial revolution that first married economic growth with burning fossil fuels occurred in 18th-century Britain. The explosion of economic activity that marked the post-war period known as the “Great Acceleration” caused emissions to soar, and it largely took place in the Global North. That’s why richer countries such as the US and UK, which industrialised earlier, bear a bigger burden of responsibility for historical emissions.

The high-carbon consumption habits of the world’s richest people are more to blame for the climate crisis than population growth in poor regions.

In 2018 the planet’s top emitters – North America and China – accounted for nearly half of global CO₂ emissions. In fact, the comparatively high rates of consumption in these regions generate so much more CO₂ than their counterparts in low-income countries that an additional three to four billion people in the latter would hardly make a dent on global emissions.

There’s also the disproportionate impact of corporations to consider. It is suggested that just 20 fossil fuel companies have contributed to one-third of all modern CO₂ emissions, despite industry executives knowing about the science of climate change as early as 1977.

Inequalities in power, wealth and access to resources – not mere numbers – are key drivers of environmental degradation. The consumption of the world’s wealthiest 10% produces up to 50% of the planet’s consumption-based CO₂ emissions, while the poorest half of humanity contributes only 10%. With a mere 26 billionaires now in possession of more wealth than half the world, this trend is likely to continue.

Issues of ecological and social justice cannot be separated from one another. Blaming human population growth – often in poorer regions – risks fuelling a racist backlash and displaces blame from the powerful industries that continue to pollute the atmosphere. Developing regions in Africa, Asia and Latin America often bear the brunt of climate and ecological catastrophes, despite having contributed the least to them.

The problem is extreme inequality, the excessive consumption of the world’s ultra-rich, and a system that prioritises profits over social and ecological well-being. This is where where we should be devoting our attention.

[snip][end]
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rainwater
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Re: EARTH....

Post by rainwater »

there is science and there is 2leg bullshit.

https://www.pbs.org/show/extinction-facts/
Extinction: The Facts
David Attenborough explores the extinction crisis and how it drives pandemic diseases.

Sir David Attenborough has encountered some of the world's most extraordinary animals and plants. But many of these wonders now seem set to disappear from our planet forever. The huge variety of life on earth, known as biodiversity, is being lost at a rate never seen before in human history.
Who are these..flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it. Fuck them.
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ProfX
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Re: EARTH....

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And if you're a fan of the work of the Smithsonian ... here is a nice critique of Paul Ehrlich's Population Bomb, from Smithsonian Magazine.

The Book That Incited a Worldwide Fear of Overpopulation
‘The Population Bomb’ made dire predictions—and triggered a wave of repression around the world
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovati ... 180967499/

In the 1970s and ’80s, India, led by Prime Minister Indira Gandhi and her son Sanjay, embraced policies that in many states required sterilization for men and women to obtain water, electricity, ration cards, medical care and pay raises. Teachers could expel students from school if their parents weren’t sterilized. More than eight million men and women were sterilized in 1975 alone. (“At long last,” World Bank head Robert McNamara remarked, “India is moving to effectively address its population problem.”) For its part, China adopted a “one-child” policy that led to huge numbers—possibly 100 million—of coerced abortions, often in poor conditions contributing to infection, sterility and even death. Millions of forced sterilizations occurred.

[snip][end]

IDEAS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

Let me repeat: who does more damage to the environment?

100 people over consuming resources and putting out waste
or
1000 people in the poorest parts of the world who barely consume any?

Most of the population growth is occurring in the developing world, but most of the worst global climate problems are coming from the developed world, WHICH IS IN POPULATION DECLINE.
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ProfX
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ProfX »

rainwater wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:14 pm there is science and there is 2leg bullshit.
You, me, and David Attenborough have 2 legs.

So do ducks, birds, and many other animals.
https://wildlifeinformer.com/animals-th ... -two-legs/

U.S. Population Grew 0.1% in 2021, Slowest Rate Since Founding of the Nation
COVID-19, Declining Birth Rates and International Migration Resulted in Historically Small Population Gains
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/ ... ation.html
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ZoWie »

I used to be way more into the overpopulation theory than I am at present. It's just too hard to separate the purely biological factors from the social ones. It gets too subjective too fast. Yes, I am in agreement that all too often it's coming from a racist premise.

Ehrlich made predictions that didn't stand the test of time. I discounted his analysis pretty early on. It was scary, and that gave it legs in the popular culture, but the science is not good. He tried to reduce it to a simple mathematical process when it's more of a social one, and more self-limiting than he predicted. People are not protozoa. We are social creatures.

Intelligent population management is way more subtle than anything in the "Population Bomb." Nowadays mostly I worry when I see some upper class American whites breeding like flies, because they burden the planet far, far more than normal people.
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ProfX
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ProfX »

You know, these discussions don't just occur in a vacuum.

I know apparently for some folks "RWGs" are the ones opposing population control. But for f's sake, pick up a history book, and read about why in fact it was "RWGs" in many cases funding the earliest population control movements. The big fear of the 19th century, which is why anti-abortion laws began to be passed, is that the fertility of WASP women would soon be outstripped by the brown masses coming from other countries; this also led to the rise of the eugenics movement.

And again I raise this point: once we say "population control" is the goal - what are the methods? The One Child Policy in China ended being a disaster; led to a lot of female infanticide; the country eventually had to abandon it. India in the 70s ended up forcibly sterilizing lots of women, will you be shocked if most of them were from the Untouchables and lower castes? The problem is in the past they were often coercive, and led to sterilizing women against their will. And you cannot ignore that it was usually "RWGs" in the developed world telling brown women in developing countries "have fewer babies".

If reproductive freedom and autonomy is about something, it is about women having the freedom to not have children if they want to, AND to have as many children as they want to without having it being taken away by coercive governments and international agencies.

We can't have this discussion without looking at where most of the planet's population growth is occurring or will be: Asia and Africa.

Image

Later this century, mostly Africa. So bear in mind, this is increasingly going to be "RWGs" in the U.S. and Europe telling the poorest African women to have fewer children. See a problem there?

As for what it means for our side of the pond politics ... the U.S. is or would be in negative population growth, except for immigration. A lot of the people arguing "to build the Wall" like the Tanton-ites often invoke population as why we need nativist policies to curb immigration, and that puts us in bed with ... Donald Trump. Naive, unreflective views on population control create some dark alliances ... the Sierra Club has attempted to abandon this mistake, and this is why I again tell folks to read up on it.

Now I want to be clear - I have never said overpopulation can't be a problem - though the problems it causes are not just environmental. Massive "megacities" like Lagos in Nigeria begin to face the strains of overcrowding. And yes the pollution problems created just by traffic in some Chinese cities are becoming mind boggling. The thing is, we have got to avoid the mistakes of the past. Coercive measures, most notably forcible sterilization, led to a lot of pain and suffering.

Let met say it for the 80th time: read up on the demographic transition. Read WHY it is people in the West are having fewer children and population is going into decline. Once you understand that, you get the point that "development is the best contraceptive". We know how to make sure population falls, without employing coercive measures:

1. empower and educate women
2. increase access to reproductive health
3. reduce infant mortality
4. promote development

Do those steps, as they suggested at the 1994 UN Population Conference, and population will start falling all on its own - without so much of the suffering created by coercive measures in the past.

BTW, once again, I have never said we don't need to deal with deforestation, or issues of water conservation and management, as well as climate change. Unfortunately, not that deforestation is good anywhere, but where it is having the worst impacts right now is in Brazil and other places as rainforests play a key role in global ecological health. I don't know how to stop Bolsonaro, but he is bad not just for Brazil, but the planet.
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ProfX
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ProfX »

As for deforestation:

Image

That bright red blob in South America is Brazil. Currently led by a man, Bolsonaro, who appears determined that there is no chainsaw rainforests and indigenous communities shouldn't meet.

But note that the bright blue spot is China. Which despite its high population, is also tremendously investing in reforestation. Also note that India is a rich blue.

But the other bright red areas are, not surprisingly, in rainforest regions. Particularly Indonesia, equatorial Africa.
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ap215 »

Tornadoes strike Texas, Oklahoma; more storms in forecast

SEMINOLE, Okla. (AP) — A springtime storm system spawned several tornadoes that whipped through areas of Texas and Oklahoma, causing damage to a school, a marijuana farm and other structures.

There were no reports of serious injuries following the Wednesday night tornadoes, but the system was causing flooding in parts of Oklahoma and Arkansas and more stormy weather was expected Thursday.

https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news ... -forecast/
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Re: EARTH....

Post by bradman »

Not that a half a life time of trouble shooting f'd up construction jobs makes me an expert on this matter. But, i will mention an observation from having to put out those on the job fires.

What always confused me was how some would see no further than the spark that started the fire. The blame would be laid on the spark, and they'd carry on. Here's the thing though. i always found the spark to be only a part the problem. What some seemed to ignore was the kindling that had already been laid. Small mistakes that allowed the spark to start the fire. Take away one or two of those small mistakes and the spark will not light the fire. To me, it was always a must to understand the series of events that led to the fire, and not to blame the spark. It's how future disasters are avoided. Proactive measures.
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ap215 »

Hurricane Hunters ready for 2022 season

The official start of Hurricane Season is June 1st, but for the 53rd Weather Reconnaissance Squadron, a.k.a. the Hurricane Hunters, it’s already storm season.

https://www.wlox.com/video/2022/05/05/h ... dy-season/
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ZoWie »

They're finally talking about moving the start of the Atlantic hurricane season to May 1. Even May 15, already the official start of the Pacific storm season, would be an improvement. The weather isn't watching the calendar.
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Re: EARTH....

Post by rainwater »

the planet is running low on resources, it doesnt matter where, the price of food alone would make one look at pop
numbers relative to how much grain can be grown, anymore. or ever again in any relative time frame.

do the animals eat or do the 2legs eat. the grains. how much will a loaf of bread cost.
how many are starving.

if there is no water there is no food for the billions of 2legs.
many locations realize these things except for 'us' which constantly kids itself.
Who are these..flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it. Fuck them.
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Re: EARTH....

Post by carmenjonze »

Today from the High Priestess of the Church of Euthanasia:
rainwater wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:33 pm the planet is running low on resources, it doesnt matter where, the price of food alone would make one look at pop
numbers relative to how much grain can be grown, anymore. or ever again in any relative time frame.

do the animals eat or do the 2legs eat.
Hm, are birds animals?

Are birds 2legs?
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Re: EARTH....

Post by carmenjonze »

ProfX wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:24 pm You, me, and David Attenborough have 2 legs.
All 2legs are equal, but some 2legs are more equal than others.
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The way to right wrongs is to
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~ Ida B. Wells
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ProfX
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ProfX »

Some folks have only one leg. So we need to not be exclusionary.

Image

And, as even the ancient Egyptians knew, for a initial period, our infants generally move about and crawl on all four limbs.

P.S. in all my joking and satire, please don't detect any lack of empathy for those of us who are quadriplegics or paraplegics.
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Re: EARTH....

Post by bradman »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:43 pm Today from the High Priestess of the Church of Euthanasia:



Hm, are birds animals?

Are birds 2legs?
i beg you.

Please, give it a rest.
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carmenjonze
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Re: EARTH....

Post by carmenjonze »

bradman wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 10:45 pm i beg you.

Please, give it a rest.
You have a noted high tolerance for misanthropy.
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rainwater
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Re: EARTH....

Post by rainwater »

bradman wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 8:36 pm 8-) Here's to hoping some attacks can be ignored and you'll stick around more than ya have. :)

Plastics.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaCHH5D74Fs

To me it seems like a eons old weather pattern that sustains mother nature and not much else. Add humans, and the fine line mother nature toes goes out the window. To me, it's coming to the come to the conclusion that it's all about the water. Non water, no crops. No crops, no humans. Even the massive cisterns the Mayans built wasn't enough in some cases. Kinda like the massive lake cisterns we have now. In the end they fail.

Bamboo> i've heard of it's qualities before and would be curious as to how it could be used nowadays.
:lol: :lol:
so they attack me in my thread? how gauche.
theyre on ignore tho i sure hope im giving them something to do, we shant have bored trolls. :mrgreen:
Who are these..flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it. Fuck them.
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Re: EARTH....

Post by carmenjonze »

Y'all not ever noticed that a lot of antivivisection, animal rights, earth protectors are misanthropist AF against fellow human beings?

Enter the interplay of extremist factions of these movements, and eugenicism. And worse.

And to be frank, some of the mainstream elements, as well.

I would not be even talking about this except for the fact that RFL has this person who despises and thinks she's better than those of us in urban areas, and rails constantly about cutting "pop," right along with 1970s John Tanton era ideology that does the same.

I just hope she doesn't go off the cliff into becoming a JD Vance voter. :problem:

So no, bradman, I am not going to give it a rest. Why should I.
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Re: EARTH....

Post by carmenjonze »

:?
rainwater wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 11:41 pm :lol: :lol:
so they attack me in my thread? how gauche.
Hi, karen.

It's not your thread. You don't own a thread just becaue you start a topic - even somebody as dim as Glennfs understands enough about the internet to know this.

Nobody here owns threads except for plunderer, who is hosting this venue.
theyre on ignore tho i sure hope im giving them something to do, we shant have bored trolls. :mrgreen:
Some of you guys around here have the emotional development levels of 6 year olds.

The act of commenting in a thread you started is not trolling. Where do you get this ridiculous territorialism from? Your white FBI father?
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ProfX
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ProfX »

I'm so totally trolling. :roll:

I pointed to some archaeologists who've written on the Classic Maya "collapse". Merely suggested it is a more complex phenomenon than many realize. It's still a puzzle being worked on, and all I will say is it looks like it is multi-causal. Jared Diamond is a great writer and I really like his work, but that doesn't mean he has the complete answer.

I have never disagreed that deforestation and water resource management are crucial environmental problems right now. Agriculture and other human activities need to be sustainable. Yes, I know the problems FL agricultural runoff is creating in our oceans. I was active in environmental organizations. I helped write a report on climate change. However, I really like the environmental justice perspective, which has to be a part of this discussion. Even the EPA acknowledges that.

Last, on population, I have never said overpopulation can't create problems, but why is it I'm trolling when I'm the only one who's talked about humane and not cruel ways of controlling it that don't cause a lot of suffering, mostly for women? It's so total trolling to point out that if you say there is a problem, we need to discuss solutions -- and more importantly point out the awful ones used in the past.

Finally, it's a thread called "EARTH". People post all kinds of things to it. Environmental stories, weather and earthquake disasters, observations on sunspot activity, volcanic eruptions, it kind of is a real broad name, but it doesn't "belong" to anybody. Last but not least, discussion can and does include disagreement. If you want people to just nod in agreement with everything you say, discussion is not for you. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean you've never posted anything valuable or of interest. That includes the board conservatives. But in their case, it's usually stuff about sports or popular culture. :D

We are facing great environmental problems now, absolutely no disputing. I happen to agree with the Green New Deal. I think climate change is the most formidable, as it is the greatest and most urgent threat to human civilization as a whole. I also firmly believe in protection of endangered species.
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Re: EARTH....

Post by ap215 »

Severe weather hits portions of Minnesota on Monday, more severe weather possible this week

(Chanhassen, MN)--Severe weather hit much of Minnesota on Monday. Severe thunderstorm watches and warnings were issued along with a tornado watch for portions of the state.

The National Weather Service says a tornado was spotted on the ground near Gilman in Benton County on Monday.

https://www.voiceofalexandria.com/news/ ... de027.html
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Re: EARTH....

Post by bradman »

ap215 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 8:53 am Severe weather hits portions of Minnesota on Monday, more severe weather possible this week

(Chanhassen, MN)--Severe weather hit much of Minnesota on Monday. Severe thunderstorm watches and warnings were issued along with a tornado watch for portions of the state.

The National Weather Service says a tornado was spotted on the ground near Gilman in Benton County on Monday.

https://www.voiceofalexandria.com/news/ ... de027.html
Apparently we here in Mn. are going to skip spring this year and go directly to Summer. Last month was cold, wavier, waves that felt closer to the end of winter than the usual spring we have. Yesterday it suddenly switched to a wavier heat wave. 85, hot, and humid. Today it's back in the 60's. By Thursday it'll be back to 90. By Monday back down into the 60's.

It's playing havoc with the riding season. We don't know whether to pack t-shirts or winter gear.
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Re: EARTH....

Post by marindem01 »

Cleanup Complete Nonprofit Removes Over 25,000 Pounds of Trash From Lake Tahoe.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/c ... e/2886546/.

Nearly one year ago, a nonprofit launched an unprecedented effort to remove trash from Lake Tahoe's entire 72-mile-long shoreline. On Tuesday, it completed its mission.

Clean Up the Lake ended up removing 24,797 pieces of litter weighing a combined 25,281 pounds from the treasured alpine lake on the California-Nevada border.

Since the 72-mile cleanup effort kicked off on May 14, 2021, Clean Up the Lake's team of staff and volunteers spent dozens of days pulling everything from beer cans and beach towels to engagement rings and a cordless house phone from the water near shore.

"It’s been an absolute whirlwind of hard work and good times," Clean Up the Lake founder and executive director Colin West said. "Overall, just super excited to be coming into the finish line, honored to be completing a project to this scale. Thankful, of course, to the team, our staff, board, volunteers and other supporters to the project as well."

Lake Tahoe sits on the California/Nevada Border and is vacation spot year round. Swimming, boating and Skiing and of gambling when you cross the stateline into Nevada.

No one reported seeing "Tahoe Tessie", the Lake Tahoe version of The Loch Ness Monster.
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Re: EARTH....

Post by Number6 »

Wildfires in New Mexico and now one in Orange County that's destroyed 13 homes so far.
Several homes overlooking the ocean in Laguna Niguel are now engulfed in flames as a fast-moving brush fire is spreading rapidly amid strong winds.

The fire broke out Wednesday afternoon between Laguna Niguel and Laguna Beach near a water treatment plant, according to the Orange County Fire Authority, and quickly erupted in size.

The fire exploded from about 30 acres around 5 p.m. to 183 just before 6 p.m., according to authorities. The strong winds are reportedly blowing embers into the attics of homes, making it harder for firefighters to get through.

According to the city of Aliso Viejo, the Aliso and Wood Canyons Wilderness Park is shut down. Students participating in after-school activities at Laguna Beach High School were also evacuated, according to the school district.
https://abc7.com/orange-county-brush-fi ... /11838740/
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