Privacy and Freedom

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Glennfs
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Glennfs »

marindem01 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:22 pm What the Troll does not mention is that it took 8-Years of the Clinton/Gore Administration to cut the deficit created by RayGun and Bush.

The Traitor increased the deficit as well, Mr. Biden is cutting the deficit and reducing inflation. All the Ronnie God is increase the deficit, just like he did to California.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/04/biden-t ... story.html

The deficit is coming down not because of anything the Biden administration has done. It is coming down because we are no longer putting trillions into the economy because of covid.
As for your assertion that Biden is cutting into the Bidenflation thatis truly funny.
If Bidenflation goes from a 40 year high to only a 25 year high you folks are going to call that a victory
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:28 pm https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/04/biden-t ... story.html

The deficit is coming down not because of anything the Biden administration has done. It is coming down because we are no longer putting trillions into the economy because of covid.
As for your assertion that Biden is cutting into the Bidenflation thatis truly funny.
If Bidenflation goes from a 40 year high to only a 25 year high you folks are going to call that a victory
You guys called it a victory when inflation went through the roof with Reagan, now, didn't you?
Glennfs
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:31 pm You guys called it a victory when inflation went through the roof with Reagan, now, didn't you?
Reagan inherited run away inflation from Carter and took about 2 years to fix it.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:34 pm Reagan inherited run away inflation from Carter and took about 2 years to fix it.
My mistake. Oops!

Here, let me wipe that egg off my face... :lol: :lol: :lol:

I meant the deficit. That's what we were talking about. You guys called it a victory when Reagan ran the deficit to the moon.

But let's also remember that Carter inherited the inflation from Nixon and Ford.
Bludogdem
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Bludogdem »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 3:01 pm You need an amendment to amend the constitution. I think BD's point is that you don't need an amendment to pass a law that would codify Roe.
Kavanaugh suggested during the hearing that Congress has the authority to legislate on abortion. The amendment cites that it is the right of the people to determine rights not defined in the constitution . Congress represents the people. Originalist would embrace this.
Bludogdem
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Bludogdem »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 3:48 pm I’ve heard all that before. It’s not how it works. It’s just a talking point. Fear mongering.
It’s not a talking point, it’s pure stupidity. Not how they function.
gounion
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:26 pm It’s not a talking point, it’s pure stupidity. Not how they function.
It's funny how you guys have worked for years to get to this point, and now you can't find one conservative that supports the Court now. Now you guys are screaming "Insurrection!" and "Treason!" and demanding imprisonment for the leaker.

Now THAT'S stupidity!
Bludogdem
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Bludogdem »

Alito is correct. Roe is egregiously wrong.

The SC attempted policy with Roe. Not their job.

Congress has the power to legislate the policy. The Democratic Party needs to focus on this issue to gain a sufficient majority to move legislation on the issue.
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ProfX
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by ProfX »

SAMUEL ALITO’S ANTIABORTION INSPIRATION: A 17TH-CENTURY JURIST WHO SUPPORTED MARITAL RAPE AND HAD WOMEN EXECUTED
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/05 ... tion-draft

[snip]

And if you needed further proof that Alito is pure evil and wants to take the U.S. back to a time when women’s bodies were property for men to control, know that one of the people he cited in his opinion was an English jurist who defended marital rape and had women executed for “witchcraft.”

Yes, Alito literally quoted this guy, who was born in 1609, as a defense for ending Roe v. Wade in 2022. “Two treatises by Sir Matthew Hale,” Alito enthusiastically writes, “described abortion of a quick child who died in the womb as a ‘great crime’ and a ‘great misprision.’ See M. Hale, Pleas of the Crown.” As Jezebel notes, The History of the Pleas of the Crown “is a text that defended and laid the foundation for the marital rape exemption across the world” and reads: “For the husband cannot be guilty of a rape committed by himself upon his lawful wife for by their mutual matrimonial consent and contract the wife hath given up herself in this kind unto her husband which she cannot retract.” Again, Alito used the arguments of this man to bolster his case.

[snip]

And that’s another reason why the Roe preview is so disturbing. On Monday, former Justice Department official Elliot Williams tweeted: “You don’t need to read too far between the lines of Alito’s draft to see a rationale for overturning or weakening Griswold (the right to contraception) Obergefell (same-sex marriage) Loving (interracial marriage) Lawrence (consensual sex acts).” Incidentally, it was less than a month ago that GOP senator Mike Braun said that states should be allowed to ban interracial marriage (before claiming he misunderstood the question that led to him saying such a thing multiple times).

[snip][end]
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
Bludogdem
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:37 pm My mistake. Oops!

Here, let me wipe that egg off my face... :lol: :lol: :lol:

I meant the deficit. That's what we were talking about. You guys called it a victory when Reagan ran the deficit to the moon.

But let's also remember that Carter inherited the inflation from Nixon and Ford.
In 1976 the inflation rate Carter inherited was 5.75%. In 1980 the inflation rate Reagan inherited was 13.58%.

Reagan’s last six years in office the yearly rate was between 1.91% and 4.30%.

https://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.html
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carmenjonze
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by carmenjonze »

Bludogdem wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:53 pm Alito is correct. Roe is egregiously wrong.
How come so many conservative males wish to criminalize miscarriages and heavy periods?
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Glennfs
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Glennfs »

Bludogdem wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:17 pm In 1976 the inflation rate Carter inherited was 5.75%. In 1980 the inflation rate Reagan inherited was 13.58%.

Reagan’s last six years in office the yearly rate was between 1.91% and 4.30%.

https://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.html
The interest rates and unemployment numbers were also significantly reduced by Reagan
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Glennfs
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:28 am Glenn tells us that if the Dems take over, they will destroy the nation. Under Dems, we won't have any freedom.

Of course, history tells us quite differently. FDR saved our nation from revolution, and remade our rights and our economy and won a world war, all against the tide of what the GOP wanted. Even Eisenhower, a nominally Republican President, was an FDR adherent. He supported FDR concepts like labor rights.

However, one of FDR's grave mistakes was not extending those rights to blacks and minorities. That was extended to the incarceration of Japanese-Americans during WW2.

There is a public sphere and a private sphere. The public sphere, where we do business and organize together, is what must be regulated. The economy and business must have rules that everyone abides by. Business should not have human rights under the Constitution, but the Supreme Court has given them that.

But there is the private sphere. What people do in their private lives. Like most Democrats, progressives, liberals, whatever you wish to call us - I accept all these titles (though the one I embrace the most is the title of Trade Unionist), I strongly believe the most important right as an American is to live my personal life as I chose. Inside my home, and who I live with and who I love is not the government's business. Also, I have the right to my own body and personal decisions thereof.

The only caveat there should be is that it is among consenting adults. The state has the duty to protect children and adult who do not consent. There goes the right to own slaves, which I think many conservatives still want to have.

I believe there is an inherit right in the Constitution for the right to privacy. The word meant different things when the document was written, but the Founding Fathers did not believe the government had the right to go into a person's home and regulate their lives there.

But the GOP and the right does NOT believe there is a right to privacy. They believe the government can tell you who you can marry, who you can love, what consenting adults you can have sex with, make your medical decisions for you (yes, even whether to sterilize you against your will or not), whether you can legally buy contraceptives or not (even if you are married, so they're making the decision for you in procreation, too), and even what race of person you can marry.

They are against each and every case in this nation that was decided based upon the concept that you have a right to privacy in this nation.

And that's where the battle lines are drawn. The right to privacy is the right I'm fighting for.

As the old labor anthem laments, which side are YOU on?
Somehow the party that supports a ministry of truth talking about privacy and freedom lacks credibility
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:05 pm Somehow the party that supports a ministry of truth talking about privacy and freedom lacks credibility
Another lying GOP talking point.
Glennfs
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Glennfs »

marindem01 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:22 pm What the Troll does not mention is that it took 8-Years of the Clinton/Gore Administration to cut the deficit created by RayGun and Bush.

The Traitor increased the deficit as well, Mr. Biden is cutting the deficit and reducing inflation. All the Ronnie God is increase the deficit, just like he did to California.
In case you haven't heard inflation oscar 40 year highs.
I suppose when they get it to only 25 year highs you will declare victory
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
Glennfs
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:34 pm Another lying GOP talking point.
Yep when you can't dispute the facts just go with the ole tried and true

Racist nope
Fascist nope
Nazi nope
Bad link nope
Talking point winner we have a winner
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
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carmenjonze
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 9:05 pm Yep when you can't dispute the facts just go with the ole tried and true

Racist nope
Fascist nope
Nazi nope
Bad link nope
Talking point winner we have a winner
:?

What in the world are you talking about? Please take an online class and learn to express yourself using the English language.

Have you even read 1984? The Cliff's Notes don't count.
Last edited by carmenjonze on Sun May 08, 2022 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ProfX
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by ProfX »

What is "the Ministry of Truth?" My guess is, you're referring to the government's new Disinformation Board.

Well, it's time, I guess, to clear the misinformation around disinformation (board). :D

Looked over a few stories on the subject, this one seems to have the best clarity.

What is DHS' Disinformation Governance Board and why is everyone so mad about it?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-is-dh ... -about-it/

The new board is intended to standardize the department's efforts to respond to disinformation that could be connected with violent threats to the U.S. So, if an agency under DHS — like Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) or Cybersecurity and Information Security Agency (CISA) — identifies disinformation under its purview, it's the new disinformation board that would come up with the best practices for any DHS agency handling the disinformation.

[snip]

The board is tasked with standardizing and streamlining DHS' efforts to respond to disinformation that could be connected with violent threats to the U.S. homeland.

Disinformation is defined as "false information that is deliberately spread with the intent to deceive or mislead."

Previously, efforts to curb disinformation were carried out independently by agencies and offices operating under DHS' purview.

For instance, according to DHS, some of those projects include CISA's accounting of Russian cyber attacks and election interference, CBP's efforts to undermine false narratives peddled by human traffickers operating near the U.S.-Mexico border, DHS' guidance to the U.S. telecom industry to debunk false claims suggesting 5G cell towers spread COVID-19, and FEMA's fraud alerts, warning of criminals who take advantage of disaster survivors in the wake of super storms.

[snip]

"This is not the truth police," Mayorkas declared to the Senate panel, Wednesday, responding to accusations of censorship. "Our work in addressing disinformation that threatens the security of the homeland has been going on for almost 10 years. I asked the question – and we asked the question within the [Department of Homeland Security] – what efforts do we have underway? What policies, procedures and standards of conduct do we have in place to ensure that that vitally important homeland security work… does not infringe on fundamental rights?"

Mayorkas has repeatedly stated that the board will not censor and will not have "operational authority."

[snip]

A mix of career and political appointees will staff the board, according to a senior DHS official who briefed CBS News and was granted anonymity to speak freely on the department's internal deliberations. While one official from each of the relevant components – CISA, FEMA, CBP, S & T, and I & A – will sit on the advisory committee, members of DHS' Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and Privacy Office will also work with the group.

It's co-chaired by DHS' Office of Policy and Office of the General Counsel, a highly unusual move intended to safeguard "privacy, civil rights, civil liberties and free speech," according to the official, in adherence with DHS' existing legal authorities.

[snip]

DHS selected author and disinformation expert Nina Jankowicz to lead the board. The former Fulbright-Clinton Public Policy Fellow previously oversaw programs for Russia and Belarus for the National Democratic Institute and has written two books: "How to Be a Woman Online: Surviving Abuse and Harassment," and "How to Fight Back; and How to Lose the Information War: Russia, Fake News, and the Future of Conflict."

[snip]

As for social media, DHS' Office of Intelligence Analysis currently conducts open source analysis of social media threats that pose a risk to the homeland. But DHS officials tell CBS News that engagement with social media threats will remain exclusively within I & A. "The board is not itself playing any role. It is not doing any sort of [social media] monitoring. Nor would the board have any authority that would augment pre-existing work and authorities of any given department."

[snip]

"What this working group seeks to actually do is develop guidelines, standards, and guardrails to ensure that the work that has been ongoing for nearly 10 years does not infringe on people's free speech rights, rights of privacy, civil rights and civil liberties," Mayorkas said. "It was quite disconcerting, frankly, that the disinformation work that was well underway for many years, across different independent administrations was not guided by guardrails."

DHS officials concede the use of the word "governance" may have prompted "some misperceptions" about the board's role.

"This board and the department itself is not going around trying to label things as information, misinformation or disinformation," a senior DHS official said.

[snip][end]

So, class, let's review.

Government agencies have actually been trying to identify disinformation for a decade or more, and more importantly how to deal with it. The biggest concern is foreign governments "weaponizing" it to attack the U.S., such as Russia, China, Iran, or North Korea. If you didn't know, those efforts to counter these threats have already been underway. If you had a problem with the government doing this, you ought to know it's been focused on this problem for a while. Given that disinformation is an actual threat to the U.S. national security, I happen to approve. Suppose the North Koreans deployed some bot-net spreading rumors about a false disaster in the U.S. that never happened, merely to create panic among U.S. citizens. Would you not want the government to deal with that?

The Disinformation Board that DHS created under Mayorkas is nothing but a clearinghouse and coordinating center. It is not undertaking any new activities. It is merely a place for the various agencies dealing with various kinds of disinformation threats to share information and coordinate their efforts with each other. I seem to remember some discussion about a big problem before 9/11 being that the FBI, CIA, and many agencies failed to share information with each other. Isn't this a good thing?

It is not going to police political speech on social media nor censor it. In fact, it has no new function in identifying disinformation, there are already government agencies that do that already. They are identified in the article. Its goal is once a cyber-attack on the U.S. has been identified, to coordinate the response to it. That's it.

What a surprise. Misinformation about the Disinformation Board. Now: I do agree Mayorkas could have discussed this rollout of this program/agency a little bit more proactively before Republicans grilled him about it. Might have spared a lot of this angst. Even some Democrats, rightly, pointed out it should have been done with more openness and transparency.
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gounion
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by gounion »

Glenn tried to tell me it was the same as the Nazi Ministry. He's gone full Godwin.

But that's what the GOP told him to do.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs is complaining about some nonexistent “ministry of truth” when it’s clear he’s never even read 1984, and is not familiar with the reference.

But then this guy also votes for the Party of Lincoln, which now waves the Confederate flag, so…
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carmenjonze
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 6:41 am Glenn tried to tell me it was the same as the Nazi Ministry. He's gone full Godwin.

But that's what the GOP told him to do.
These people are unfit for democracy, but this guy will pull the WS-centrism card and insist we must appease his extremist Republican Party whims because we need his individual, personal vote. :lol:
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The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
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ProfX
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by ProfX »

That's a shame. More people should read 1984 and Animal Farm. Orwell was a leftie, he was a socialist, but he was not a fan of the Soviets, and Animal Farm is all about the hypocrisies of the Soviet system. The Party enjoyed all kinds of privileges the citizenry of the so-called "classless" society never had. Hence ... "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

Now given the furor over the fact that the author of Maus depicted the Poles as pigs, I guess some might be furious that of course, it is pigs who are the ruling caste of Animal Farm. :roll:

Given another thread, should I point out the ruling pigs' maxim was "two legs bad, four legs good?" :D

Given that Two-Minutes Hate seems to be a GOP platform plank these days ... I would say George Soros has become Emmanuel Goldstein ... yeah, more people should read 1984.

But Orwell was also a nonfiction writer, and I think had some very good essays on how language is used politically. Particularly how those in power use euphemisms and obfuscations over what they really mean. Those are, also, of course still very relevant today.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
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Drak
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Drak »

gounion wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 6:41 am Glenn tried to tell me it was the same as the Nazi Ministry. He's gone full Godwin.

But that's what the GOP told him to do.
The GOP is projecting as per usual.
marindem01
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by marindem01 »

carmenjonze wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 6:49 am Glennfs is complaining about some nonexistent “ministry of truth” when it’s clear he’s never even read 1984, and is not familiar with the reference.

But then this guy also votes for the Party of Lincoln, which now waves the Confederate flag, so…
We all know reading is not the Troll's strong suit. My Dad got me "1984" for my 13th. Birthday. Great Book, as was Animal Farm.

My Step-Mom was properly shocked that Dad would let me, "Read Such Trash".
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Drak
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Re: Privacy and Freedom

Post by Drak »

“Ministry of Truth” is some hilarious projection with the latest republican talking point, where up is down. The GOP lies with impunity, pushed to hyper levels under Trump. Keep lying, always lie, and it becomes the truth. “We make the truth.” The leader is always right. War is peace, ignorance is strength, freedom is slavery. Alternate facts. Never tell the truth. That’s what the Ministry of Truth means in reference. But as usual the GOP projects what they are onto liberals, and the derps nod along like mindless drones.


Disinformation is one of the greatest threats to democracy. We are being pummeled with it by enemies, foreign and domestic - this has been discussed on this board for the last 6 years. Radicalizing millions of people and dividing them with dangerous disinformation needs to be addressed.

Can you imagine if Nazi Germany and its American sympathizers were allowed to set up shop with radio on our shores during WW2? Or the Soviets were allowed to do so during the Cold War?
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