Today on Thom Hartmann

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Glennfs
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Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by Glennfs »

He was talking about the recession we are about to enter and how the stock market is tanking.
He presented in sort of a heads up to his listeners.
The funny part was he gave many reasons why the Biden administration has nothing to do with the current problems our country is having.
While doing so he cited the Reagan recession and the Bush market crash.
Odd how he indicated those were the results of the executive office. But our current situation isn't.
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gounion
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:52 pm He was talking about the recession we are about to enter and how the stock market is tanking.
He presented in sort of a heads up to his listeners.
The funny part was he gave many reasons why the Biden administration has nothing to do with the current problems our country is having.
While doing so he cited the Reagan recession and the Bush market crash.
Odd how he indicated those were the results of the executive office. But our current situation isn't.
And to you, everything is always the fault of the dems. Look in the mirror.
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:59 pm And to you, everything is always the fault of the dems. Look in the mirror.
Again the Reagan recession and the Bush Market Crash
All why explaining that the Biden administration has nothing to do with our current situation
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gounion
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:08 pm Again the Reagan recession and the Bush Market Crash
All why explaining that the Biden administration has nothing to do with our current situation
But you say both of them were the fault of the Dems, don't you?
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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gounion wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:11 pm But you say both of them were the fault of the Dems, don't you?
Reagan inherited Carter's mess and it took him about two years to get things going tin the right direction.

Bush is responsible for everything that happened under his watch.

Under Biden nothing has really improved. The unemployment numbers are back to pre pandemic levels. The so called jobs creationi is because we restarted the economy and eliminated the free money.
The so called deficit reduction is a result of pandemic programs ending.

Fact is the democratic party and Biden administration is in charge and we have the market crashing,inflation at 40 year highs, gas heading to $6 a gallon a border crisis shortages everywhere and a war in Ukraine.

Our country needs new leadership and a new direction. Remember Carville saying everything that should be up is down and everything that should be down is up.

The only valid defense of Biden is he is not trump. God knows trump would not be qualified to handle the Ukraine situation.
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gounion
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:29 pm Reagan inherited Carter's mess and it took him about two years to get things going tin the right direction.

Bush is responsible for everything that happened under his watch.

Under Biden nothing has really improved. The unemployment numbers are back to pre pandemic levels. The so called jobs creationi is because we restarted the economy and eliminated the free money.
The so called deficit reduction is a result of pandemic programs ending.

Fact is the democratic party and Biden administration is in charge and we have the market crashing,inflation at 40 year highs, gas heading to $6 a gallon a border crisis shortages everywhere and a war in Ukraine.

Our country needs new leadership and a new direction. Remember Carville saying everything that should be up is down and everything that should be down is up.

The only valid defense of Biden is he is not trump. God knows trump would not be qualified to handle the Ukraine situation.
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit.

You have ALWAYS said that the housing market meltdown was NOT Bush's fault, and instead was the fault of lending laws pushed during the Clinton administration. You can't get that cheese by me, Meat.

You've NEVER blamed the GOP for ANYTHING bad that happened. It's ALWAYS been the fault of the Dems, one way or the other.
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ProfX
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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I think the big concern is the Federal Reserve raising interest rates.

They have to be careful, overshooting there might halt inflation, but also sink the economy into recession. I think they have some competent technocrats over there, I hope they won't miss the mark.
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Glennfs
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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gounion wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:32 pm Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit.

You have ALWAYS said that the housing market meltdown was NOT Bush's fault, and instead was the fault of lending laws pushed during the Clinton administration. You can't get that cheese by me, Meat.

You've NEVER blamed the GOP for ANYTHING bad that happened. It's ALWAYS been the fault of the Dems, one way or the other.
That wasn't his fault nor was it Clinton's. It was the fault of greedy mortgage companies taking advantage of people like my mother who simply didn't know any better.
Had those people kept their homes and never refinanced them had they not been duped into 5 year notes with balloon payments.
Today all those people would be in very good financial shape.
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gounion
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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Glennfs wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:39 pm That wasn't his fault nor was it Clinton's. It was the fault of greedy mortgage companies taking advantage of people like my mother who simply didn't know any better.
Had those people kept their homes and never refinanced them had they not been duped into 5 year notes with balloon payments.
Today all those people would be in very good financial shape.
Sorry, but you've always blamed Clinton for it, but you did say no one could have forseen what happened. But you absolved Bush of any responsibility for any of the meltdown.
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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ProfX wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:33 pm I think the big concern is the Federal Reserve raising interest rates.

They have to be careful, overshooting there might halt inflation, but also sink the economy into recession. I think they have some competent technocrats over there, I hope they won't miss the mark.
One thing that hurts is even though people on the left disagree tax cuts are a great way to stimulate our economy.
Unfortunately our last two tax cuts were unnecessary and unneeded. So today's rates are so low there is nowhere to cut.
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ProfX
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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Glennfs wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:42 pm One thing that hurts is even though people on the left disagree tax cuts are a great way to stimulate our economy.
I don't disagree with that. What I do disagree with is where those cuts should be and the nature of them. I prefer Keynesian demand-side tax cuts, for the working class. Not "supply side" "voodoo economics" cuts for the wealthy.
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gounion
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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Glennfs wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:42 pm One thing that hurts is even though people on the left disagree tax cuts are a great way to stimulate our economy.
Unfortunately our last two tax cuts were unnecessary and unneeded. So today's rates are so low there is nowhere to cut.
Tax cuts that go mostly to the rich don't do shit for the economy. Now, what DID work was putting cash into people's hands, like they did during the worst of the pandemic.

But you guys always love to give tons of money to the rich, which they just keep.
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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gounion wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:41 pm Sorry, but you've always blamed Clinton for it, but you did say no one could have forseen what happened. But you absolved Bush of any responsibility for any of the meltdown.
Ad to housing why is Bush responsible for a program passed and implemented under Clinton.
And no I have not blamed Clinton for it beyond saying he should have had some safeguards in place.
But nobody saw the mortgage companies greed.
I bought a brand new $86000 freightliner on a lease with nothing down. My load was approved in less than 20 minutes. The only document I had was my 1099.
They couldn't loan money fast enough back then.
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Glennfs
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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gounion wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:44 pm Tax cuts that go mostly to the rich don't do shit for the economy. Now, what DID work was putting cash into people's hands, like they did during the worst of the pandemic.

But you guys always love to give tons of money to the rich, which they just keep.
That is liberal bullshit. How do you cut taxes for 45+% who pay no taxes
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gounion
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:47 pm That is liberal bullshit. How do you cut taxes for 45+% who pay no taxes
And since they're the ones that buy groceries and goods at Walmart, giving THEM money goes directly into the economy, unlike giving a rich guy a tax cut.
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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Glennfs wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:29 pm Reagan inherited Carter's mess and it took him about two years to get things going tin the right direction.

Bush is responsible for everything that happened under his watch.

Under Biden nothing has really improved. The unemployment numbers are back to pre pandemic levels. The so called jobs creationi is because we restarted the economy and eliminated the free money.
The so called deficit reduction is a result of pandemic programs ending.

Fact is the democratic party and Biden administration is in charge and we have the market crashing,inflation at 40 year highs, gas heading to $6 a gallon a border crisis shortages everywhere and a war in Ukraine.

Our country needs new leadership and a new direction. Remember Carville saying everything that should be up is down and everything that should be down is up.

The only valid defense of Biden is he is not trump. God knows trump would not be qualified to handle the Ukraine situation.
Reagan didn’t do a fucking thing. Get of your knees.

Volker caused a recession by jacking interest rates sky-high. He allegedly killed inflation which is utter bullshit as inflation is a term of art created by economists so they can have “gravitas”. Inflation is a psychological response by human beings generally greed/fear based. There is no price fairy that raises prices when demand increases. If Volker killed inflation then there would be no inflation. That being said there has been historically high inflation in particular segments of the economy long before Biden, Trump or Bush2 were presidents. Of particular note is healthcare. We also saw the tech bubble under Clinton that drove the stock market up and the real estate bubble under Bush2 where prices skyrocketed while actual housing turnover was much lower than new builds and purchases of previously owned housing. When that crashed we saw how the F.I.R.E. sector came to dominate and the decimate the economy.

The stock market is detached from its purpose, raising capital for businesses, and from the economy as a whole. The danger lies in a political economy that tied so-called shareholder value to executive compensation under the bullshit argument of “skin in the game.” Compensation utilizing stock options results in executives making extremely short-term decisions based upon stock price and not upon performance as a whole. Stock buy-backs also highlights this.

Jobs creation is jobs creation. If it doesn’t matter under Biden then it didn’t matter under Bedtime for Bonzo. But I must retract my first statement. Ronnie the Dim-Witted did do one thing. He jacked up the deficit. Which, oddly enough, Republicans scream about when not in power and sweep under the rug when they are in power.

I listened to Thom. The actual issues are fundamental structures of the rules, regulations and guidelines under which transactions occur within a political economy. THERE. IS. NO. SUCH. THING. AS. A. FREE. MARKET. “Markets” don’t decide anything. They lack the essential feature called a brain. Only humans decide things which is why we have PR, agitprop, advertising, lobbyists, politicians and idiots like Elon Musk. Consolidation, elimination of competition, oligopoly/monopoly, legislative and regulatory capture et al all are issues that deeply impact the social structure that is political economy.

One of the key things to learn is that capitalism in any form does not exist to create any jobs whatsoever. Job creation is driven by creative destruction which also destroys jobs, technological change which can also destroy jobs and demand for products which also gets driven by advertising and a want to have something new. The corporations, non-humans created by the state with no values or beliefs, attempt to fill the needs and wants of humans by decisions made by humans within the legal construct. These decisions do not create jobs but rather need jobs to fulfill their customers demands. Labor is viewed as a cost to be controlled so financialized corporations hire as few people as possible, pay as little as possible and get rewarded when they layoff labor. Putting money in the hands of those who lack it and who are likely to spend it is probably the best way to stimulate transactions resulting in increased demand. Unfortunately, because of greed/fear increased demand makes humans overseeing production raise prices. The verbiage about chasing more dollars is of necessity bullshit. It is words with no real meaning.

You want to stop inflation?

Freeze prices and wages. Raise interest rates sky-high so that idiot executives will be afraid to borrow money. Of course, if they are ponzi financing they will be driven to bankruptcy.
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Libertas
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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Board cons prove they know even less about economics than pandemics and everything else.
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Libertas wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 5:21 pm Board cons prove they know even less about economics than pandemics and everything else.
I disagree. They know about it but they lie about it to get people to believe republican policies will help the average American when in actuality it hurts them.
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Glennfs
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by Glennfs »

bird wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 4:17 pm Reagan didn’t do a fucking thing. Get of your knees.

Volker caused a recession by jacking interest rates sky-high. He allegedly killed inflation which is utter bullshit as inflation is a term of art created by economists so they can have “gravitas”. Inflation is a psychological response by human beings generally greed/fear based. There is no price fairy that raises prices when demand increases. If Volker killed inflation then there would be no inflation. That being said there has been historically high inflation in particular segments of the economy long before Biden, Trump or Bush2 were presidents. Of particular note is healthcare. We also saw the tech bubble under Clinton that drove the stock market up and the real estate bubble under Bush2 where prices skyrocketed while actual housing turnover was much lower than new builds and purchases of previously owned housing. When that crashed we saw how the F.I.R.E. sector came to dominate and the decimate the economy.

The stock market is detached from its purpose, raising capital for businesses, and from the economy as a whole. The danger lies in a political economy that tied so-called shareholder value to executive compensation under the bullshit argument of “skin in the game.” Compensation utilizing stock options results in executives making extremely short-term decisions based upon stock price and not upon performance as a whole. Stock buy-backs also highlights this.

Jobs creation is jobs creation. If it doesn’t matter under Biden then it didn’t matter under Bedtime for Bonzo. But I must retract my first statement. Ronnie the Dim-Witted did do one thing. He jacked up the deficit. Which, oddly enough, Republicans scream about when not in power and sweep under the rug when they are in power.

I listened to Thom. The actual issues are fundamental structures of the rules, regulations and guidelines under which transactions occur within a political economy. THERE. IS. NO. SUCH. THING. AS. A. FREE. MARKET. “Markets” don’t decide anything. They lack the essential feature called a brain. Only humans decide things which is why we have PR, agitprop, advertising, lobbyists, politicians and idiots like Elon Musk. Consolidation, elimination of competition, oligopoly/monopoly, legislative and regulatory capture et al all are issues that deeply impact the social structure that is political economy.

One of the key things to learn is that capitalism in any form does not exist to create any jobs whatsoever. Job creation is driven by creative destruction which also destroys jobs, technological change which can also destroy jobs and demand for products which also gets driven by advertising and a want to have something new. The corporations, non-humans created by the state with no values or beliefs, attempt to fill the needs and wants of humans by decisions made by humans within the legal construct. These decisions do not create jobs but rather need jobs to fulfill their customers demands. Labor is viewed as a cost to be controlled so financialized corporations hire as few people as possible, pay as little as possible and get rewarded when they layoff labor. Putting money in the hands of those who lack it and who are likely to spend it is probably the best way to stimulate transactions resulting in increased demand. Unfortunately, because of greed/fear increased demand makes humans overseeing production raise prices. The verbiage about chasing more dollars is of necessity bullshit. It is words with no real meaning.

You want to stop inflation?

Freeze prices and wages. Raise interest rates sky-high so that idiot executives will be afraid to borrow money. Of course, if they are ponzi financing they will be driven to bankruptcy.


https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2 ... ge=overall

Reagan ranked 8th all time and in front of every president who followed him.
But that list is compromised by academic scholars and presidential historians who do not have a political axe to grind. Whose task is to get history correct.

So you have a Sophie's Choice. Are you going to believe educated scholars or well paid pundits
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gounion
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:01 pm https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2 ... ge=overall

Reagan ranked 8th all time and in front of every president who followed him.
But that list is compromised by academic scholars and presidential historians who do not have a political axe to grind. Whose task is to get history correct.

So you have a Sophie's Choice. Are you going to believe educated scholars or well paid pundits
They rank Carter above Ford, Nixon, Bush Jr. and Trump.

And they rank Obama JUST BELOW Reagan. He was ranked 12th in 2017, and moved up to 10th in 2021. Reagan hasn't moved. What if they rank him above Reagan the next time? Are you still going to say they don't have an axe to grind, or are you going to change your tune?
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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gounion wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:53 pm They rank Carter above Ford, Nixon, Bush Jr. and Trump.

And they rank Obama JUST BELOW Reagan. He was ranked 12th in 2017, and moved up to 10th in 2021. Reagan hasn't moved. What if they rank him above Reagan the next time? Are you still going to say they don't have an axe to grind, or are you going to change your tune?
Actually Reagan moved down then back up over the last few years.
As for your Obama question I will rely on the judgment of the presidential scholars and historians.
Because unlike you and evidently most others here I respect what historians and scholars have to say.
Btw Carter was 2 ahead of W
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ProfX
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

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Looks like Trump is only 4th from the bottom in that ranking.

Well, he has always shown he can always go lower, so I expect that too, is possible. :mrgreen:

Dunno, the "greatness" of presidents I guess is something for the folks who build monuments and name highways and airports after them. I suppose to me it's just a number in a ranking that in the end doesn't mean much.

For me, I look at policies.

Ronald Reagan was responsible for Iran-Contra, said ketchup was a vegetable, supported a kind of economics even his own VP called "voodoo," did far too little too late about HIV-AIDs, had an administration full of corrupt and incompetent people, and supported dictators in Haiti and the Philippines and elsewhere. In the end, I don't care where he fits on some abstract ranking of "greatness". Have I mentioned his wife consulted astrologers, and worse yet, had Ron plan summits and events around astrological forecasting? Doesn't make those realities go away.
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by bird »

Glennfs wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:01 pm https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2 ... ge=overall

Reagan ranked 8th all time and in front of every president who followed him.
But that list is compromised by academic scholars and presidential historians who do not have a political axe to grind. Whose task is to get history correct.

So you have a Sophie's Choice. Are you going to believe educated scholars or well paid pundits
Nope. No “Sophie’s Choice” there at all. Presidential rankings are beauty contests, utterly subjective and subject to both the biases of those doing the ranking and the conditions that occurred during a particular administration.

Reagan ran up the deficit.
Reagan armed the Mujahideen which led directly to the Taliban. It is called unintended consequences.
Reagan cozied up to Saddam Hussein.
Reagan traded arms for hostages.
Reagan armed the contras in direct violation of congressional order.
Reagan waited years before even saying “AIDS”.
Reagan kicked off his campaign where civil rights workers were murdered.
Reagan bleated about states’ rights which was/is the Southern claim that the Civil War was about.
Reagan undermined confidence in the United States government by claiming government is the problem.

Tell me which of those is untrue.

We have had 42 years of Reagan/Republican bullshit economic policies. For that alone he should have been kicked in the balls and then kicked to the curb.

Reagan was/is/always will be a piece of shit.
gounion
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:33 pm Actually Reagan moved down then back up over the last few years.
As for your Obama question I will rely on the judgment of the presidential scholars and historians.
Because unlike you and evidently most others here I respect what historians and scholars have to say.
Btw Carter was 2 ahead of W
First, no you won’t. If Obama ranks over Reagan, you’ll no longer say a word about these history polls

And Carter ranks above both Republican Presidents this century. Why should they get another chance?
Glennfs
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Re: Today on Thom Hartmann

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:11 pm First, no you won’t. If Obama ranks over Reagan, you’ll no longer say a word about these history polls

And Carter ranks above both Republican Presidents this century. Why should they get another chance?
No not at all.They have Bush and Carter ranked very close to each other. As for the rest of your comments you are simply self projecting.
Case in proof you agree with the Lee book because that one historian agrees with your opinion.
But,you won't admit that Reagan is top 10 even though a panel of around 90 historians and scholars rate him top 10.
Seem you have a problem with well educated historians and scholars unless they agree with your limited opinion
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